PG - Swiss cheese D

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah that’s how Zach got with DDR just kind of passive aggressively tried to compete over scoring, now he’s competing with Giddey over playmaking and when he was around Caruso and we were playing for something or on the national team he did try to compete at defending. I’d also say this is something pretty core to Zach is his competitiveness and like a lot of things with any of us it’s one of his biggest strengths and weaknesses at the same time. I think Zach usually leaves it at a fairly healthy competition place like he didn’t hate DDR and they both I think got along personally but he more wanted to outplay him but it isn’t great from a winning sense because you had the my turn your turn stuff.

I also wouldn’t push too hard against it because I think we’ll see this team working best when they embrace how many people there are that can pass well, we just have to try and break it up when he goes tunnel vision with it but I think Billy is in a bit of a catch 22 there because he benched Zach 1 fkn time and years later that is one of the primary things driving Zach’s decision making. I think it has to subtly come from the team in consistently getting the ball back to Giddey when it matters. Zach is right that you want your best players executing in the clutch but Giddey is the guy that should run the team and Zach should be the primary weapon. If Zach figures this out I think it would go a long way for a established team to add him, he has to show he can defer to people to play with great players and he hasn’t shown he can yet.

He seemed to have it figured out the first 5 games. Last night late in game he was driving into 3 or 4 defenders recklessly. At this point I don’t this BBIQ can fixed. It will take him playing next guys that are clearly superior so he will have to defer to their skills.

It’s so weird though. He is averaging in the mid 20s on elite efficiency and he decides that he doesn’t want to continue to do what’s working great so far? Why? Hopefully that was a blip and we get back to team offense on Monday.

[DuckIII]

I'm not sure what people think they are seeing. First the criticism was Zach is taking too many shots and taking away shots from other players. He is down to 15 shots per game so far this season (way too low, especially as hot as he has been shooting and the Bulls getting about 10 more possessions a game than they used to) That would be his lowest shots per game as a Bull (discounting last season where he hardly played).

So now it is that he is keeping the ball away from Giddy? Whatever. His usage rate is down from his average with the Bulls (I believe 4% lower).

I guess he just shouldn't do anything but stand in the corner?

We are taking about situational basketball, which has always been the larger issue with Lavine. That and his unwillingness to commit to defense. It’s why he’s still on the team.

To the extent you thought people were saying he runs around all game long stealing the ball from teammates and jacking shots, that’s not what is being said.

[DuckIII]

Zach Lavine usage: 25%
Josh Giddey: 23.3%

That seem ok?

Also has nothing to do with situational basketball.

[Stratmaster]

Zach Lavine usage: 25%
Josh Giddey: 23.3%

That seem ok?

Also has nothing to do with situational basketball.

What situational possessions are you referring to?

[Charlesareed]

This team is. It good I see 1 win maybe within the next 5 games and if they can’t be the 0-5 jazz blow it up asap

[DASMACKDOWN]

I just want us to do well enough to show we can win these games...without winning them too many times.

We could have won and had our chances. Im fine with that.

Its just for me the "other" teams are much more tankable then we are.

Both Vooch and Zach are good enough to win us a few games on their backs.

[madvillian]

Pat was so bad last night. Really discouraging. It's just 1.5 steps forward with him 1.5 back. Don't see how Matas can't get a little burn too with how the game went. I turned it off in the 4th so maybe I missed something but it's not like we were really in sync with the guys that were playing.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Pat was so bad last night. Really discouraging. It's just 1.5 steps forward with him 1.5 back. Don't see how Matas can't get a little burn too with how the game went. I turned it off in the 4th so maybe I missed something but it's not like we were really in sync with the guys that were playing.

His defense and rebounding have been a positive step forward. He is actually trying to be more active. The biggest issue is his shot is not falling.

I believe his shooting numbers will eventually go back to his career numbers. But just keep up the 6 rebs and good defense and I can live with it.

[madvillian]

Pat was so bad last night. Really discouraging. It's just 1.5 steps forward with him 1.5 back. Don't see how Matas can't get a little burn too with how the game went. I turned it off in the 4th so maybe I missed something but it's not like we were really in sync with the guys that were playing.

His defense and rebounding have been a positive step forward. He is actually trying to be more active. The biggest issue is his shot is not falling.

I believe his shooting numbers will eventually go back to his career numbers. But just keep up the 6 rebs and good defense and I can live with it.

To me his decisonmaking just continues to be trash tier. Really would have hoped a light would go on for him by now.

[kodo]

Beyond letting our opponent shoot over 50%, the TO's killed us. I think we can live with 14 or less. If there is good news, I think those will settle down as the team gets used to this style. To the Bulls' credit, they got up a lot of 3's and, so far, they are shooting them at a good clip, over 38% last night (despite whiffs by Pat and Giddey). I think we win this with Ball playing.

Less TOs is always good. But we're 13th in TOs/possession, basically average? We have the same TOs/possession as the Warriors. While playing a new system with a lot of new people who have no chemistry with each other yet.

I think people think we're a high TO team because they're used to the ultra low TOs of last year's team, 28th, but that comes from playing at one of the slowest paces at and we've been doing that for years.

[FriedRise]

Beyond letting our opponent shoot over 50%, the TO's killed us. I think we can live with 14 or less. If there is good news, I think those will settle down as the team gets used to this style. To the Bulls' credit, they got up a lot of 3's and, so far, they are shooting them at a good clip, over 38% last night (despite whiffs by Pat and Giddey). I think we win this with Ball playing.

Less TOs is always good. But we're 13th in TOs/possession, basically average? We have the same TOs/possession as the Warriors. While playing a new system with a lot of new people who have no chemistry with each other yet.

I think people think we're a high TO team because they're used to the ultra low TOs of last year's team, 28th, but that comes from playing at one of the slowest paces at and we've been doing that for years.

Also, can't turn the ball over when you only make simple and pointless passes around the perimeter and the ball sticks in one player's hands. The passes they're attempting to make this year have been of the higher risk variety that actually lead to something.

Passes that result in potential assists
'23-24: 44 (18th)
'24-25: 52 (4th)

Assists points created
'23-24: 62.3 (29th)
'24-25: 73.7 (5th)

[sco]

Beyond letting our opponent shoot over 50%, the TO's killed us. I think we can live with 14 or less. If there is good news, I think those will settle down as the team gets used to this style. To the Bulls' credit, they got up a lot of 3's and, so far, they are shooting them at a good clip, over 38% last night (despite whiffs by Pat and Giddey). I think we win this with Ball playing.

Less TOs is always good. But we're 13th in TOs/possession, basically average? We have the same TOs/possession as the Warriors. While playing a new system with a lot of new people who have no chemistry with each other yet.

I think people think we're a high TO team because they're used to the ultra low TOs of last year's team, 28th, but that comes from playing at one of the slowest paces at and we've been doing that for years.

Also, can't turn the ball over when you only make simple and pointless passes around the perimeter and the ball sticks in one player's hands. The passes they're attempting to make this year have been of the higher risk variety that actually lead to something.

Passes that result in potential assists
'23-24: 44 (18th)
'24-25: 52 (4th)

Assists points created
'23-24: 62.3 (29th)
'24-25: 73.7 (5th)

Yeah, I like our passing much more this season, although there have been a number of them when our guys have thrown the ball to empty space. IMO, Zach has had most of the terrible passes so far, but I guess I should be happy that he passes.

[Jcool0]

Pat was so bad last night. Really discouraging. It's just 1.5 steps forward with him 1.5 back. Don't see how Matas can't get a little burn too with how the game went. I turned it off in the 4th so maybe I missed something but it's not like we were really in sync with the guys that were playing.

His defense and rebounding have been a positive step forward. He is actually trying to be more active. The biggest issue is his shot is not falling.

I believe his shooting numbers will eventually go back to his career numbers. But just keep up the 6 rebs and good defense and I can live with it.

He has never been a good defender. One of the only teams that would keep him in the starting lineup is Chicago and I'm not sure why at this point.

[Dez]

Pat was so bad last night. Really discouraging. It's just 1.5 steps forward with him 1.5 back. Don't see how Matas can't get a little burn too with how the game went. I turned it off in the 4th so maybe I missed something but it's not like we were really in sync with the guys that were playing.

His defense and rebounding have been a positive step forward. He is actually trying to be more active. The biggest issue is his shot is not falling.

I believe his shooting numbers will eventually go back to his career numbers. But just keep up the 6 rebs and good defense and I can live with it.

He has never been a good defender. One of the only teams that would keep him in the starting lineup is Chicago and I'm not sure why at this point.

F*** off he's not a good defender, be disappointed with him but don't talk bulls***.

[Jcool0]

His defense and rebounding have been a positive step forward. He is actually trying to be more active. The biggest issue is his shot is not falling.

I believe his shooting numbers will eventually go back to his career numbers. But just keep up the 6 rebs and good defense and I can live with it.

He has never been a good defender. One of the only teams that would keep him in the starting lineup is Chicago and I'm not sure why at this point.

F*** off he's not a good defender, be disappointed with him but don't talk bulls***.

Um okay? No idea why this is upsetting you so much. DBPM: -0.7. DWS 0.7. 1 SPG. 0.5 Blocks. That's not good.

[RastaBull]

Probably unpopular, but I put that kiss in a “clutch” scenario pretty much 100% on Giddey. And that doesn’t mean to take anything away from Giddey; I am really encouraged by him and the whole team. Also, I think the game was really good and Bulls were really impressive … white and Lavine in 2nd was awesome, Vuc in 3rd was special, defense was worse than even prior games, 1st quarter still a really pathetic unforced error.

But ultimately, we got back in and took a lead in 4th. There’s all sorts of fingers to point at different guys, but imo if the game gets to a “clutch” setting, tied or within couple points, then the win or loss comes down to performance in those final 5 min.

Giddey had his hands all over that loss in the final 5. Starts with his transition bunny shot (brick) rebounding his own shot (nice skill of his), getting fouled, missing yet another FT (after 0-2 earlier). Alright, one possession, no biggie.

The game was lost though by letting Cam take over on two straight possessions. I don’t know how in the world our d allowed Giddey of all people to one-on-one defend Cam in those moments. Giddey’s defense is really one of most sad and worthless things I’ve seen in few years. (I’ll take it with all his other potential for now; but he’s gotta improve). Then he went on to miss a 3 and really lousy turnover, but honestly the game was out of hand after Cam went off with Giddey defending him.

Wish we would have won, we could have and should have for sure. But once again it was an enjoyable game to watch and fun team to root for.

[Stratmaster]

Yeah that is why I was a little confused by the Lavine narrative here.

The Bulls had some problems last game.

Giddey scoring 11 points while taking 17 shots is a problem.

Williams is always horrible. I think he scored 6 points on 8 shots IIRC.

But somehow Zach Lavine is in a competition with Giddy and is purposely keeping the ball away from the guy who took 17 (19 counting free throw trips) mostly bad shots and had 8 assists and 4 turnovers?

I think Ayo gets an honorable mention for scoring 10 on 11 shots in 26 minutes .