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2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#581 » by VFX » Sun Nov 3, 2024 12:01 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:
VFX wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:

Franz fallen off a cliff? Wtf


Well yeah.

He didn’t shoot the ball well last season at all, disappeared in the playoffs, and was then handed a max deal without hesitation. He appeared to regain a lot in the first three games of the season but got sick, so who knows how consistent he will be.

I’m going to chalk last nights game up as “he’s still sick” because at no point last night did I think “man this guy is a max player capable of taking over this basketball game.” That was also all last season whether people want to admit it or not.




He shot terribly last season from 3 but he had 2 previous years of shooting it well. He had a very good year overall, with the exception being the 3pt shot, shot 2pt fields goals a career best. He did not disappear in the playoffs, he had an absolutely horrible game 7 and also had a masterpiece game 4 in which he absolutely demolished Cleveland, which fans like you completely ignore like they didn’t happen.


Everyone in Orlando played well at home at terribly away.

Yeah he also went 3/11 and 1/6 in game 5…
But yeah good game 4 out of a 7 game series.

FWIW I’m not out on Franz. I just need to see more from him this season to prove he’s a guy that is taking over games without Paolo that was worth handing the max without hesitation.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#582 » by eyriq » Sun Nov 3, 2024 12:18 am

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#583 » by T-Cat » Sun Nov 3, 2024 1:09 am

VFX wrote:
SOUL wrote:Fans already turning on this team. Sad to see.


I don’t know if it’s “turning” on the team really.

It’s kinda validation for criticisms of the FO held in the last few seasons. Paolo’s injury just highlights these issues more than they would like to admit.

Turning on this team would be people tuning out and not posting here anymore.


I bet you coach Mosley will be the scapegoat of a disappointing season because he not getting the most out of his team.

If one player dictates your whole season's success, especially after the FO shell out $$ to guys that are suppose to make a difference than we have major issues.

Jonathan Isaac is our teams highest paid player, has played aggressive on offense and looks too slow defensively.

I don't think Mosley gets the boot this season unless front office needs to secretly tank and point the blame on someone.

I'm not going to lie having a potential top 5 pick along with Denver's pick and a few roster improvements sounds more intriguing than this current roster as constructed. :D
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#584 » by SOUL » Sun Nov 3, 2024 1:20 am

We're not getting a top 5 pick. Stop.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#585 » by VFX » Sun Nov 3, 2024 4:26 am

SOUL wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Which means they don't have to be like that. There are infinite alternative courses of action. And so when fans ask why none of the myriad other courses of action ever seem valid to the Orlando FO, it's a very convenient but totally invalid argument to offer "it was always going to be that way" as the explanation.


On the flip side though, people were also saying to move on from Suggs after his first two seasons and also saying Paolo would leave our first season if we didn't completely overhaul the roster. We also are coming off a prior rebuild that failed while trading away guys like Oladipo for horrible trades that failed because fans got impatient that the roster wasn't better.

It's just hard for me to take a lot of the whining seriously when we had a 47 win team (that probably should've gotten 50 wins with some of the losses we had) with one of the youngest teams in the league and not great offensive pieces.

So yeah, while the FO could be more active, the whole acting like this rebuild is a failure thing is just not fair either. I even asked before the season if (outside of injury) people would accept losses as a trade-off for integrating and developing guys like Jett/TDS/Black more and people seemed down with it, when in reality, I think any sort of losses just bother people regardless if it's good process or not.


I just want to put it out there that at no point in the last few seasons did it seem logical that Jett, TDS, or Black should be given starters minutes at the expense of losses. Ok maybe the case for Black over Fultz…

That being said, having those guys buried so deep into the bench, that they never saw playing time, IS counter intuitive to development.

That’s what the context IS between developing prospects and acquiring a functioning offense being run. At the very worst, you want these guys capable of earning minutes even if it comes at the expense of not playing short term juggernauts like Gary Harris and Cole Anthony :lol:.

On the other hand, acquiring a point guard so that the entire offense works properly isn’t some crazy far-fetched wishlist situation when you consistently see this FO pay a bunch of nobodies, 3rd string unit guys, and streaky journeyman. Like.. we are aware those are different situations right?

One is obviously more important to developing players you are signing max contracts for and the other is hoping your investments become anything worthwhile with in-game minutes.

It isn’t some “gotcha” concept that advocating for either of those situations aren’t mutually exclusive. You want to make sure those max guys are IN a good system, while making sure your lotto picks aren’t rotting behind scrubs that show up once every 4 games if it can be avoided.

I have no doubt that the defense on this team is good enough to win a bunch of games against bad teams when healthy. The problem becomes when the offense being carried by 2 guys becomes easily schemed against because there is no growth in terms of a system. Like are people just hoping Suggs hits 8 3’s a game or AB becomes 6’7 Chris Paul as a solution? Let be real here.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#586 » by Husky1 » Sun Nov 3, 2024 5:14 am

Cole 6 games into a season:
4-20 FG
1-10 for 3
1-3 FTs
13 assists on 9 turnovers
10 rebounds on 9 fouls

Playing 4 on 5 would probably hurt less than playing this version of Cole.[/quote]
This is incredible. YIKES COLE
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#587 » by KillMonger » Sun Nov 3, 2024 6:45 am

Husky1 wrote:Cole 6 games into a season:
4-20 FG
1-10 for 3
1-3 FTs
13 assists on 9 turnovers
10 rebounds on 9 fouls

Playing 4 on 5 would probably hurt less than playing this version of Cole.

This is incredible. YIKES COLE[/quote]Besides that first game, Harris has been almost as bad

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#588 » by jezzerinho » Sun Nov 3, 2024 8:25 am

SOUL wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Which means they don't have to be like that. There are infinite alternative courses of action. And so when fans ask why none of the myriad other courses of action ever seem valid to the Orlando FO, it's a very convenient but totally invalid argument to offer "it was always going to be that way" as the explanation.


On the flip side though, people were also saying to move on from Suggs after his first two seasons and also saying Paolo would leave our first season if we didn't completely overhaul the roster. We also are coming off a prior rebuild that failed while trading away guys like Oladipo for horrible trades that failed because fans got impatient that the roster wasn't better.

It's just hard for me to take a lot of the whining seriously when we had a 47 win team (that probably should've gotten 50 wins with some of the losses we had) with one of the youngest teams in the league and not great offensive pieces.

So yeah, while the FO could be more active, the whole acting like this rebuild is a failure thing is just not fair either. I even asked before the season if (outside of injury) people would accept losses as a trade-off for integrating and developing guys like Jett/TDS/Black more and people seemed down with it, when in reality, I think any sort of losses just bother people regardless if it's good process or not.


You're right that some of the posts on here are just whining. But there's a roster construction issue that nearly everyone recognises and nearly everyone thinks should be resolved.

You can't have a 13-deep roster and develop your young players at the same time. Too few minutes to go around. Too many mouths to feed. Too many young players needing time and the space to fück up in order to learn.

The problem is that we reinforced our squad with vets in the wrong positions. Harris and KCP are basically the same player at different production levels. We also have Cole, Suggs, Howard and (depending how you view him) Black in a similar position. So we have a logjam of vets where we also have some of our best youth.

We have no PG. With Paolo out Suggs took the reins and basically did a passable impression of Paolo as an iso-heavy brute bullying his way to the basket.

People watch the games, see our offense rotate heavily around iso ball and the know it's not going to work at the top level. The FO must see the same thing but still resign Harris, sign KCP, draft Howard, retain Houstan, retain Anthony....

The FO could easily have gone a different route. Signed a PG 2 years ago, developed Suggs as a SG and drafted whoever they liked to bolster the squad. Lose Cole, lose Harris, maybe lose a vet center and draft/sign to fill those spots. We could still be developing youth but actually have a balanced roster.

But no. We all sit on our hands and watch a golden opportunity to be excellent rather than good slip by.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#589 » by drsd » Sun Nov 3, 2024 10:06 am

SOUL wrote:We're not getting a top 5 pick. Stop.


Indeed: the Nuggets pick is top-5 protected.

So: "with the sixth pick in the draft, the Magic use the Denver pick to select ..."
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#590 » by three3d » Sun Nov 3, 2024 4:52 pm

SOUL wrote:Fans already turning on this team. Sad to see.


36 years of basically the same thing happening fans should turn on ownership and Martins. They are the one consistent thing throughout 36 years of history of basically the same thing happening
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 6: Orlando Magic (3-2) at Cleveland Cavaliers (5-0) - 7pm ET 

Post#591 » by Bakomagic » Sun Nov 3, 2024 8:16 pm

three3d wrote:
SOUL wrote:Fans already turning on this team. Sad to see.


36 years of basically the same thing happening fans should turn on ownership and Martins. They are the one consistent thing throughout 36 years of history of basically the same thing happening



And what’s this same thing that is happening?

from where I stand we are on an upward trajectory (ahead of schedule) with young stars, movable contracts and a stockpile of draft picks.

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