2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[CobraCommander]

Nobody said he deserves it after just five games—I simply gave my prediction for who will win it in the end. If you’re going to try to debunk someone’s post and criticize it, at least read it first.

So your post isn’t based on what’s happened , you just a fan of Luka and you don’t care what happened last year where Luka was 5th in mvp, you just predicting your favorite player will be better that Jokic based on your love...got it- So essentially what I said without stats... I think Luka will be in the conversation too-

But if it’s just how I feel then I feel like Jokic or Embiid or Giannis will win it based on the past and AD or Tatum or SGA vs the present

Lol, where in the hell did i say that Luka is my favourite player. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I just said that because of counting stats he will be in front. Having almost 30pt TD helps a lot( he doesnt have it right now but i think he will at the end of the season).
Im not sure what drives you and why are you so agressive.
I guess you will now quote me and mention another thing that i didnt said...

Ok
You said by counting stats - he isn’t top 5 in any counting stats - any of them?

So how is he the counting stats mvp today?

I’m so confused bro-

Either way - if he does what he did today- play the most minutes in a blow out by 40 he will definitely be the mvp and too tired to win a chip

[Ssj16]

You just can't use Dallas being #5 seed last year against Luka, in fact it's quite the contrary when you look at the fact that Dallas had many injuries and most of all were basicly on paper nowhere near the best teams in the West like Denver, OKC or Wolves before they got Gafford and PJ Washington

And notice i'm saying that for now, SGA should win the MVP this year, my point is just that Luka for me was robbed of the MVP last year for bullshite reasons and excuses like "let's have him a big PO run first and then he will get it the following year for the incredible individual season he had before even if he has an average season for his standards the following season"

Luka wasn’t robbed. Jokic was flat out better than him, just like he’s been his entire career.

Luka has been very underwhelming through five games, which isn’t that uncommon for him. He’s prone to cold streaks. Has Jokic had a five game stretch this bad in the past four years?

Man people want Luka to get a life time achievement award when last year for the second time in 2 years he finished behind SGA in the MVP. SGA is flat out out playing Luka this year like Jokic outplayed everyone except maybe Embiid last year if he played the full year. Once Embiid got hurt it was a foregone conclusion last year that it was Jokics award. Never not once last year did Luka or SGA sniff Jokic in the MVP award- in fact Embiid was Jokics only comp last year.

Imo, Embiid cannot sustain that level of greatness over an 82 game stretch, so to me, it's always a moot point when people refer to the stretches as a possible case for Embiid being better than Jokic or "more valuable".

It doesn't take into account that Jokic had another gear (which is scary) but can play at an elite level for 82 games practically.

Just Embiid's inability to be available should keep him out of the convo unless at the end of the season, he actually accumulates 70% plus games played, otherwise he and Kawhi should be looked at in the hypothetical category.

[Mrakar]

So your post isn’t based on what’s happened , you just a fan of Luka and you don’t care what happened last year where Luka was 5th in mvp, you just predicting your favorite player will be better that Jokic based on your love...got it- So essentially what I said without stats... I think Luka will be in the conversation too-

But if it’s just how I feel then I feel like Jokic or Embiid or Giannis will win it based on the past and AD or Tatum or SGA vs the present

Lol, where in the hell did i say that Luka is my favourite player. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I just said that because of counting stats he will be in front. Having almost 30pt TD helps a lot( he doesnt have it right now but i think he will at the end of the season).
Im not sure what drives you and why are you so agressive.
I guess you will now quote me and mention another thing that i didnt said...

Ok
You said by counting stats - he isn’t top 5 in any counting stats - any of them?

So how is he the counting stats mvp today?

I’m so confused bro-

Either way - if he does what he did today- play the most minutes in a blow out by 40 he will definitely be the mvp and too tired to win a chip

cmn man start reading. Your answers are impulse-driven, you cant concentrate on reading. I wrote that he WILL be in front and that he WILL almost have 30pt TD and that he does not have it right now. Calm down, read the post.

[scrabbarista]

It's interesting that SGA avergd 30.7 ppg the last two seasons on .631 TS% and is currently at 26.5 on .581 TS%.

Makes you wonder how good OKC can be. What if his numbers normalize?

People called me crazy (okay, one person!) when I picked them over BOS in the preseason (kind of a coin flip, to be fair), but I sure ain't regretting it yet!

[scrabbarista]

Davis topping the MVP ranking right now, he won't sustain it but a cool start from AD.


Got to bet on SGA

I’m with you - Giannis stats look good but they taking Ls

AD playing great in unexpected wins

SGA and Tatum are balling and winning.

Ja is lurking already but it feels like Jokic is still the best player on earth

Jokic the best but like LeBron was the best from 08-09 to 19-20 and won it 4 times in those 12 seasons.
You don't win every MVP for simply being the best player.

James was the best player most of those years, but only deserved the MVP in '09-'13. It's a regular season award, and James starting pacing himself for the postseason after his fourth MVP in '13.

EDIT: Your point stands, but I'm not sure it applies to Jokic. He plays a ton in the RS and so far in his prime hasn't had the luxury (or the inclination, it seems) of pacing himself in the RS. Certainly not with Denver's current roster.

[CobraCommander]

Lol, where in the hell did i say that Luka is my favourite player. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I just said that because of counting stats he will be in front. Having almost 30pt TD helps a lot( he doesnt have it right now but i think he will at the end of the season).
Im not sure what drives you and why are you so agressive.
I guess you will now quote me and mention another thing that i didnt said...

Ok
You said by counting stats - he isn’t top 5 in any counting stats - any of them?

So how is he the counting stats mvp today?

I’m so confused bro-

Either way - if he does what he did today- play the most minutes in a blow out by 40 he will definitely be the mvp and too tired to win a chip

cmn man start reading. Your answers are impulse-driven, you cant concentrate on reading. I wrote that he WILL be in front and that he WILL almost have 30pt TD and that he does not have it right now. Calm down, read the post.

Ok then we agree- read my post- as well

[Doranku]

It's interesting that SGA avergd 30.7 ppg the last two seasons on .631 TS% and is currently at 26.5 on .581 TS%.

Makes you wonder how good OKC can be. What if his numbers normalize?

People called me crazy (okay, one person!) when I picked them over BOS in the preseason (kind of a coin flip, to be fair), but I sure ain't regretting it yet!

He just needs to stop forcing so many 3s. All of his numbers are consistent with last year's outside of him taking twice as many threes. He averaged 31.4 ppg in 2023 with less than one made 3 per game. Stick to your game, young blood.

[CobraCommander]

Luka wasn’t robbed. Jokic was flat out better than him, just like he’s been his entire career.

Luka has been very underwhelming through five games, which isn’t that uncommon for him. He’s prone to cold streaks. Has Jokic had a five game stretch this bad in the past four years?

Man people want Luka to get a life time achievement award when last year for the second time in 2 years he finished behind SGA in the MVP. SGA is flat out out playing Luka this year like Jokic outplayed everyone except maybe Embiid last year if he played the full year. Once Embiid got hurt it was a foregone conclusion last year that it was Jokics award. Never not once last year did Luka or SGA sniff Jokic in the MVP award- in fact Embiid was Jokics only comp last year.

Imo, Embiid cannot sustain that level of greatness over an 82 game stretch, so to me, it's always a moot point when people refer to the stretches as a possible case for Embiid being better than Jokic or "more valuable".

It doesn't take into account that Jokic had another gear (which is scary) but can play at an elite level for 82 games practically.

Just Embiid's inability to be available should keep him out of the convo unless at the end of the season, he actually accumulates 70% plus games played, otherwise he and Kawhi should be looked at in the hypothetical category.

I agree 100%

But if it’s a reg season award and not the award of who is actually better, Embiid can beat anyone if he plays enough games- But of the best 8 players in the league Embiid is the one I would trust the least in the playoffs

[ty 4191]

Jokic will deserve it but won't win it.

Jokic is the most consistently outstanding player of the past 40 years, alongside Michael Jordan himself.

Here's proof:

Including the playoffs, last 4 seasons:

Jokic basically NEVER has a bad game! "Game Score" of 10 is league average, 20 is great, 30 is outstanding, 40 is ATG.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/game-score

Last 5 seasons, including playoffs:

1. Jokic: 117 games Game Score 30+, FOUR games with a Game Score 10 or less!! 29:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

2. Embiid: 79 games Game Score 30+, 11 games 10 or less. 7:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

3. Doncic: 79 games Game Score 30+, 12 games 10 or less. 6:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

4. Giannis: 87 games Game Score 30+, 8 games 10 or less. 11:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

5. Tatum: 44 games Game Score 30+, 26 games 10 or less. 1.7:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

Not exactly a small sample size, since the beginning of 2020-2021 season (including playoffs):

Jokic is one of the greatest few players of the past 45 years, and, one of the top few most skilled and valuable, also.

Comparing this to other peak 4 season spans of superstars of the past (Game Score calculable and sortable back to 1983-1984):

1. LeBron James (2007-2008 through 2010-2011): 79 games Game Score 30+, 11 games 10 or less. 7.2:1 ratio of outstanding games to bad games.

2. Michael Jordan (87'-88' through 90'-91'): 152 games Game Score 30+, 5 games 10 or less. 30:1 ratio.

3. Larry Bird (84'-85' through 87'-88'): 63 games Game Score 30+, 10 games 10 or less. 6:1 ratio.

4. Magic Johnson (86'-87' through 89'-90'): 62 games 30+, 17 games 10 or less. 4:1 ratio.

5. Shaquille O'Neal (98'-99 through 01'-02'): 55 games 30+, 10 games 10 or less. 5:1 ratio.

[AleksandarN]

Last year people were questioning Jokic shot regression. I think it was mainly to do with his ongoing wrist injuries . It seems like he is healthier and it shows. Obviously he won't shoot these percentages the whole season. But it looks like his shot is better than ever. I wouldn’t be surprised if he worked in his shot this offseason.

Read on Twitter

[AleksandarN]

Last year people were questioning Jokic shot regression. I think it was mainly to do with his ongoing wrist injuries . It seems like he is healthier and it shows. Obviously he won't shoot these percentages the whole season. But it looks like his shot is better than ever. I wouldn’t be surprised if he worked in his shot this offseason.

Read on Twitter

[Exp0sed]

Last year people were questioning Jokic shot regression. I think it was mainly to do with his ongoing wrist injuries . It seems like he is healthier and it shows. Obviously he won't shoot these percentages the whole season. But it looks like his shot is better than ever. I wouldn’t be surprised if he worked in his shot this offseason.

Read on Twitter

Seems like he's still getting treatment for that wrist on the regular, idk if it's actually that much better

I think he worked on his shot and it shows. he's def more willing to let it fly and it seems very deliberate.

his 3 ball failed him in the playoffs last season, he had some really ugly games from 3 and he's a competitive guy, I think he put in some work to make sure that doesn't happen again. just like Luka did last summer with his catch and shoot (a shot he wasn't really trained in taking and wasn't very good with), I think Jokic did the same.

there was a play this week where the ball was in the post (AG or MPJ) and the play was kinda stuck with the clock running down and Jokic ran from the mid post\short corner to the corner to line up for a catch and shoot corner 3 (which ended up being the play). I don't recall seeing him make an off ball movement like this in the past, rarely he'd do it from the top of the key and only in late clock situations

as for the corner three spefically, he's taking about 3 times more thus far this season than last season (or the ones before it), that is as a % off all his 3PA - corner 3's are taking a piece of the pie that's about 3 times larger

just like Luka last year, i'm pretty sure he's worked on spotting up in certain situations. he'll cool off obviously but i'm betting he will post a personal best in efficiency in catch and shoot 3's this season.this guy knows very well the great ones always need to add little tweaks and add to their games.

[ty 4191]

Jokic is the MVP. He's that much better and more important than everyone else.

I would honestly say that- objectively- Jokic is having (perhaps) the best 4+ season span of- (at the very least)- anyone in the past 30 years.

On/Off, over a huge sample size, tells the objective truth about player value, IMHO:













And, I'd just also like to add that, the past 5 seasons, Jokic is:

-4th in points
-2nd in rebounds
-2nd in assists

The only player (that I can find) that was top 5 in pts, ast, rb for a 5 year span is Wilt Chamberlain himself, 1963-1964 through 1967-1968:

-1st in points
-1st in rebounds
-3rd in assists

[California Gold]

Westbrook did not come close to 56/57/78 what are you talking about

Um... I'm talking about averaging a triple double?

Wasn't it that obvious when I brought up Westbrooks MVP campaign?

And equally obvious that both triple doubles would not be the same which is my point. So you can take your lol elsewhere

What does that have to do with anything? My point wasn't about the triple double it just happened to be a coincidence that the last guy to win the MVP avg'd one and wasn't a top seed. It was literally about the fact that usually MVPs aren't won unless their team is also stacking up wins - the voters generally use that as a criteria. There's been some exceptions. Get it now?

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[ChumboChappati]

SGA should win it rather easily

[BruttoNostra]

So your post isn’t based on what’s happened , you just a fan of Luka and you don’t care what happened last year where Luka was 5th in mvp, you just predicting your favorite player will be better that Jokic based on your love...got it- So essentially what I said without stats... I think Luka will be in the conversation too-

But if it’s just how I feel then I feel like Jokic or Embiid or Giannis will win it based on the past and AD or Tatum or SGA vs the present

Lol, where in the hell did i say that Luka is my favourite player. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I just said that because of counting stats he will be in front. Having almost 30pt TD helps a lot( he doesnt have it right now but i think he will at the end of the season).
Im not sure what drives you and why are you so agressive.
I guess you will now quote me and mention another thing that i didnt said...

Ok
You said by counting stats - he isn’t top 5 in any counting stats - any of them?

So how is he the counting stats mvp today?

I’m so confused bro-

Either way - if he does what he did today- play the most minutes in a blow out by 40 he will definitely be the mvp and too tired to win a chip

The first part of the bold text is correct, but misses details/context, the second part is not correct.
Doncic played 32 minutes. Yes, it's the most in the team, but it's still only 32 minutes and 3 other players played 28-29.
Luka was subbed out with 7:57 to play with 9 Rebs and 7 Asts - was he looking for a triple-double he could easily have pulled some prime Westbrook staff, totally avoiding shooting and hunting for assists for the next few minutes.

Mavs won by 23, not 40, and it was +29 when he was subbed out.
With 27 points lead heading into the last quarter, personally I would prefer him to rest in the final quarter, even if it means they will lose such a game once every 10-15 games (Mavs have enough 4th collapses the last couple of seasons), but first there is a reason I'm not an NBA coach, and second, he only player the first 4 minutes of the last quarter and then rested for good.

Can we finally stop those incorrect stat-padding notions?

Now, I'm not saying Doncic deserves any MVP recognition yet.
I even think it's better for him and Dallas to be far away from it, if the reason is he's well-rested and plays as many 32-minutes games as possible (after 37.5 MPG last season and increasing it every season of his career).

[ITYSL]

SGA should win it rather easily

He's not having an MVP season thus far, but it is super early. So much can and will change.

[Jaqua92]

I'm confused. Tatum is criticized for having a good team. Why isn't SGA?

[CobraCommander]

Lol, where in the hell did i say that Luka is my favourite player. Stop putting words into my mouth.

I just said that because of counting stats he will be in front. Having almost 30pt TD helps a lot( he doesnt have it right now but i think he will at the end of the season).
Im not sure what drives you and why are you so agressive.
I guess you will now quote me and mention another thing that i didnt said...

Ok
You said by counting stats - he isn’t top 5 in any counting stats - any of them?

So how is he the counting stats mvp today?

I’m so confused bro-

Either way - if he does what he did today- play the most minutes in a blow out by 40 he will definitely be the mvp and too tired to win a chip

The first part of the bold text is correct, but misses details/context, the second part is not correct.
Doncic played 32 minutes. Yes, it's the most in the team, but it's still only 32 minutes and 3 other players played 28-29.
Luka was subbed out with 7:57 to play with 9 Rebs and 7 Asts - was he looking for a triple-double he could easily have pulled some prime Westbrook staff, totally avoiding shooting and hunting for assists for the next few minutes.

Mavs won by 23, not 40, and it was +29 when he was subbed out.
With 27 points lead heading into the last quarter, personally I would prefer him to rest in the final quarter, even if it means they will lose such a game once every 10-15 games (Mavs have enough 4th collapses the last couple of seasons), but first there is a reason I'm not an NBA coach, and second, he only player the first 4 minutes of the last quarter and then rested for good.

Can we finally stop those incorrect stat-padding notions?

Now, I'm not saying Doncic deserves any MVP recognition yet.
I even think it's better for him and Dallas to be far away from it, if the reason is he's well-rested and plays as many 32-minutes games as possible (after 37.5 MPG last season and increasing it every season of his career).

It was hyperbole for effect but if you watch the game he was playing a lot of worthless minutes against an enemy that had waved the white flag. The question is why?

He is young so he might just be out there balling for fun. Which is cool- if I had it rolling I would want to stay out there too.

My complaint isn’t about Luka it’s about managing his minutes to Minimize the risk of injury.

Like always he will be in the top 5 of the mvp votes.

Somewhere between 1-5

Jokic most likely winning it again-

Right now it’s AD, SGA, Tatum, Jokic…. Luka isn’t 5th yet