Scottie Barnes OUT INDEFINITELY w/ Orbital Fracture

[Scase]

Still not good enough to be worse than Detroit, Washington, Portland, Brooklyn and potentially others as it still means we have Barnes and others for more than half of our games.

But I thought we had a legit shot at being better than Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Utah, so maybe this helps us get a worse record than those teams. Still a lot of time left in the season though for the Raptors to climb the standings after Dec lol

As adverse to tanking as I think Masai is, there is no way this team goes 3-22 and he doesn't selectively sit them out the rest of the season.

Even if they go 3-22 that's only 30% of our games. With everyone back they can still play at a .500 record pace during an easy schedule and leap the terrible teams.

I personally didn't care for the tank because I think no matter what we do, short of keeping out Barnes and Quickley all season (maybe there's still time for more injuries), the elite tanking teams will out tank us. We were always going to end up with the 5th - 8th best odds. I don't think we can do any better and I don't think a month of injuries to Barnes or Quickley changes that. I'd rather just see them play

5th worst is not bad by any stretch and I would happily take that. But I don't see how after a hypothetical 3-22 start, we'd find anyway to beat out any of CHA/CHI/ATL/UTA. DET might be better if Harris remembers how to play basketball. WASH/BKN are definitely out of reach, POR is a question mark, but probably still pretty bad due to being out west and already dealing with injuries too.

I think 4th is possible, 5th is very possible. I'd rather hard tank to give us the best chance at a high pick vs steal a couple useless wins. But I see your point.

[Tha Cynic]

As adverse to tanking as I think Masai is, there is no way this team goes 3-22 and he doesn't selectively sit them out the rest of the season.

Even if they go 3-22 that's only 30% of our games. With everyone back they can still play at a .500 record pace during an easy schedule and leap the terrible teams.

I personally didn't care for the tank because I think no matter what we do, short of keeping out Barnes and Quickley all season (maybe there's still time for more injuries), the elite tanking teams will out tank us. We were always going to end up with the 5th - 8th best odds. I don't think we can do any better and I don't think a month of injuries to Barnes or Quickley changes that. I'd rather just see them play

If we’re 3-22, and we go .500, we’re still 30-52.

Edit: but we’re not gonna be 3-22. Even without Barnes you’re gonna steak wins here and there. This team isn’t “worst team of all time” quality without Scottie

Yeah, I'm just not underestimating how bad the other teams can be if they want to be, and they will start to tank.

[Tha Cynic]

As adverse to tanking as I think Masai is, there is no way this team goes 3-22 and he doesn't selectively sit them out the rest of the season.

Even if they go 3-22 that's only 30% of our games. With everyone back they can still play at a .500 record pace during an easy schedule and leap the terrible teams.

I personally didn't care for the tank because I think no matter what we do, short of keeping out Barnes and Quickley all season (maybe there's still time for more injuries), the elite tanking teams will out tank us. We were always going to end up with the 5th - 8th best odds. I don't think we can do any better and I don't think a month of injuries to Barnes or Quickley changes that. I'd rather just see them play

5th worst is not bad by any stretch and I would happily take that. But I don't see how after a hypothetical 3-22 start, we'd find anyway to beat out any of CHA/CHI/ATL/UTA. DET might be better if Harris remembers how to play basketball. WASH/BKN are definitely out of reach, POR is a question mark, but probably still pretty bad due to being out west and already dealing with injuries too.

I think 4th is possible, 5th is very possible. I'd rather hard tank to give us the best chance at a high pick vs steal a couple useless wins. But I see your point.

Thing is, we can also get to 5th worst even with our starters. Utah, Chicago, Atlanta, San Antonio is where it gets a bit unknown, with or without Barnes and Quickley. I do think we're better than all of them when healthy

[Scase]

Even if they go 3-22 that's only 30% of our games. With everyone back they can still play at a .500 record pace during an easy schedule and leap the terrible teams.

I personally didn't care for the tank because I think no matter what we do, short of keeping out Barnes and Quickley all season (maybe there's still time for more injuries), the elite tanking teams will out tank us. We were always going to end up with the 5th - 8th best odds. I don't think we can do any better and I don't think a month of injuries to Barnes or Quickley changes that. I'd rather just see them play

5th worst is not bad by any stretch and I would happily take that. But I don't see how after a hypothetical 3-22 start, we'd find anyway to beat out any of CHA/CHI/ATL/UTA. DET might be better if Harris remembers how to play basketball. WASH/BKN are definitely out of reach, POR is a question mark, but probably still pretty bad due to being out west and already dealing with injuries too.

I think 4th is possible, 5th is very possible. I'd rather hard tank to give us the best chance at a high pick vs steal a couple useless wins. But I see your point.

Thing is, we can also get to 5th worst even with our starters. Utah, Chicago, Atlanta, San Antonio is where it gets a bit unknown, with or without Barnes and Quickley. I do think we're better than all of them when healthy

Well yeah, but that's kind of my point. I don't think the FO would try and go that far to steal some meaningless wins that could shoot you from 5th worst to 9th from like 5 pointless games.

Healthy do I think we are better than UTA/SAS, yeah. CHI/ATL, it's debatable. CHI has lonzo back, giddey, and lavine actually playing well, much like us health will be the determining factor. ATL I would bet money on them being the better team, Trae is the best player on both teams by a decent stretch, and he's more than enough to steal games they otherwise would lose.

As shortsighted as the FO has been in recent years, I don't think they would look this gift horse in the mouth. It's the ideal tanking state for them, it costs them no assets, injuries give them an out so they don't get flak from the media/fans, and it is a potential "free" fix to a massive talent issue. I just don't see them being that dumb.

[canada_dry]

That sucks. I guess we're tanking after all now. Injuries were the only way we were going to be able to secure a top-10 pick this season.

No it wasnt.

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[tsherkin]

And also less time our core has played together which is also no good for anyone either.

It's true. I don't know that it matters, since this isn't a contending core, but it certainly doesn't help us reach whatever potential we might otherwise have.

[OhCanada]

Unfortunate that we still won't get to see our top 3 guys play a game together anytime soon but this is a good opportunity for Mogbo, the minutes are there for him to take advantage of.

Shead
Battle
Mogbo

These dudes have the opportunity of a lifetime and I expect them to make the most of it.

Walker will be taking Battles minutes.

[JB7]

5th worst is not bad by any stretch and I would happily take that. But I don't see how after a hypothetical 3-22 start, we'd find anyway to beat out any of CHA/CHI/ATL/UTA. DET might be better if Harris remembers how to play basketball. WASH/BKN are definitely out of reach, POR is a question mark, but probably still pretty bad due to being out west and already dealing with injuries too.

I think 4th is possible, 5th is very possible. I'd rather hard tank to give us the best chance at a high pick vs steal a couple useless wins. But I see your point.

Thing is, we can also get to 5th worst even with our starters. Utah, Chicago, Atlanta, San Antonio is where it gets a bit unknown, with or without Barnes and Quickley. I do think we're better than all of them when healthy

Well yeah, but that's kind of my point. I don't think the FO would try and go that far to steal some meaningless wins that could shoot you from 5th worst to 9th from like 5 pointless games.

Healthy do I think we are better than UTA/SAS, yeah. CHI/ATL, it's debatable. CHI has lonzo back, giddey, and lavine actually playing well, much like us health will be the determining factor. ATL I would bet money on them being the better team, Trae is the best player on both teams by a decent stretch, and he's more than enough to steal games they otherwise would lose.

As shortsighted as the FO has been in recent years, I don't think they would look this gift horse in the mouth. It's the ideal tanking state for them, it costs them no assets, injuries give them an out so they don't get flak from the media/fans, and it is a potential "free" fix to a massive talent issue. I just don't see them being that dumb.

I think from the start of the season, the goal has been to tank, and the injuries are just making it that much easier for them to do it. The only way they were going to get close to the bottom was to start off horribly. It is too hard, once they accumulate wins to catch the truly awful teams. These early season injuries have just given them the window into that horrible start.

And once they are in the pack of the worst teams, Masai will do what is necessary to keep them there.

Masai has proven he is willing to tank for the right situations. He did it in the Barnes draft, which also was a deep draft, so a better guarantee of a good pick. And this draft seems to be the same.

Ainge has decided the same, and Utah is probably a better team than some of the other bottom feeders, but look where Utah is (0-4). Where there is a will, there is a way.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Johnny Bball]

Well, that's not god for Barnes but maybe he can mask up and play soon.

Can't help but notice this team is playing much quicker and the pace is much better with Barnes on the bench and hopefully that translates when Barnes returns. Not really sure what it is that is driving it, but I wanna say quick decisions and high level play of Gradey, and Mitchell pushing it.

[WhatsaTDot]

Good to hear that Scottie wont need surgery.

[Vampirate]

As long as nothing is not long term/lingering we good.

[HangTime]

Well, that's not god for Barnes but maybe he can mask up and play soon.

Can't help but notice this team is playing much quicker and the pace is much better with Barnes on the bench and hopefully that translates when Barnes returns. Not really sure what it is that is driving it, but I wanna say quick decisions and high level play of Gradey, and Mitchell pushing it.

I think that's more to do with his getting more comfortable with a role. Taking time to adjust, and gain confidence.

Davion got thrust into starter mintues, during the first half of game one.
Ochai leveling up slowly.
Gradey taking a leap
RJ returning
Early rookie jitters

Also, Scottie missing most of training camp. So he was behind on conditioning and reps with these guys.

[Thaddy]

We had a lot of player step up. Mogbo, Shead, Gradey, Barrett, and Agbaji have been better than expected. It's a good time for them to show out and prove they are capable at the NBA level.

The reason everyone looks good is because no one is looking for theirs. We had issues before where OG wanted to dribble up the ball and Fred would chuck bad shots.

These guys make the pass, play a European kind of offense that doesn't promote isolations. We run half court sets for our shooters and we push in transition. It's nice to see but we fall apart once it's late in a quarter and we need half court buckets.

The only upgrade we need to be a play in team is a decent back up center. A player like Missi would have been good here but we went with the obvious BPA in Walter.

[mdenny]

Well, that's not god for Barnes but maybe he can mask up and play soon.

Can't help but notice this team is playing much quicker and the pace is much better with Barnes on the bench and hopefully that translates when Barnes returns. Not really sure what it is that is driving it, but I wanna say quick decisions and high level play of Gradey, and Mitchell pushing it.

Agreed that there's a different team spirit when Barnes isn't on the floor or the bench. We have a collection of young guys who are disciplined and hard-nosed and hard working. No nonsense and just straight up effort.

This game against the Nuggets was AWESOME. But I can't help but think if scotty was on the bench or on the floor....he'd have a negative impact with his whining and demonstrative, bratty body language.

The past couple years I've been concerned about it here and there. I'm starting to think Scotty's whole personality is a problem. The difference in vibes during his absence seems glaring. No whining. No baby-like behavior.

[Johnny Bball]

Well, that's not god for Barnes but maybe he can mask up and play soon.

Can't help but notice this team is playing much quicker and the pace is much better with Barnes on the bench and hopefully that translates when Barnes returns. Not really sure what it is that is driving it, but I wanna say quick decisions and high level play of Gradey, and Mitchell pushing it.

I think that's more to do with his getting more comfortable with a role. Taking time to adjust, and gain confidence.

Davion got thrust into starter mintues, during the first half of game one.
Ochai leveling up slowly.
Gradey taking a leap
RJ returning
Early rookie jitters

Also, Scottie missing most of training camp. So he was behind on conditioning and reps with these guys.

Yeah getting used to the offense is part of it, and you can spread credit around, I was just picking the first two obvious ones for me.