Official RJ Barrett Thread

[XTC]

It comes down to role and lineups. Mogbo played 16 spot minutes mostly against the other teams bench while RJ is playing 40 minutes on the 2nd of a back to back. The reason Mogbo is positige is because he has someone like RJ to carry the offense. To compare the two based on plus minus is nonsensical

People don't understand how to use these stats correctly. Always leaving out the important nuances.

For his particular workload RJ is a +5, Mogbo works on the same shift but has a different job duty. He excels at his job duty but has a different type of workload. RJ is not fully acclimated to his job duty but he is the only one equipped to take it on, hes doing the best he can under the circumstances.

Barrett on the other hand trades buckets with the other team. He gives up points and then he generally breaks even with interior bucks (non 3pt plays or FTs). He doesn't get FTs, And 1s, or 3pt shots at an elite level. This is why he's similar to DeRozan as an addition by subtraction type of player.

But for some reason Barrett is a +6 in 4 games, while Scottie is a -18 through 3?

Or was the roster around RJ better?

Stop putting down RJ to prop up Scottie.

[deck]

Barnes and even Mogbo have great impact stats because of their defense. Barrett will never be able to do that, which is disappointing and hurts his value. The scoring is great but he was just a +5...

That's absurd. I think RJ played an ok game last night, but he was significantly more impactful than Mogbo on the outcome. What a ridiculous thing to say.

It kind of comes down to "stocks". Mogbo gets a lot of steals and blocks which doesn't even tell you everything. He affects shots at the rim and passing lanes. Barrett on the other hand doesn't generate many "stocks" and it's a reason why his +/- isn't great. Stocks generate transition opportunities that clearly impacts plus/minus while Barrett plays the interior scoring (lower PPP) game while giving up buckets on the other end.

Barret's +5 was best among the starters last night. Mogbo had more turnovers last night than stocks, so in terms of statistical impact on possessions, he was a -1 yesterday, same as Barret. Boucher was a +16 and had zero stocks.

You know very little about basketball if you think playing Mogbo for 40 minutes last night instead of Barret would have resulting is us winning by a larger margin (ie. That Mogbo has a greater impact on winning). It would not have even been possible, as Mogbo fouled out on 16 minutes of playing time.

I like Mogbo to be sure, and I don't think RJ a franchise cornerstone or anything like that, but this post seems needless and antagonistic.

[nikster]

It comes down to role and lineups. Mogbo played 16 spot minutes mostly against the other teams bench while RJ is playing 40 minutes on the 2nd of a back to back. The reason Mogbo is positige is because he has someone like RJ to carry the offense. To compare the two based on plus minus is nonsensical

People don't understand how to use these stats correctly. Always leaving out the important nuances.

For his particular workload RJ is a +5, Mogbo works on the same shift but has a different job duty. He excels at his job duty but has a different type of workload. RJ is not fully acclimated to his job duty but he is the only one equipped to take it on, hes doing the best he can under the circumstances.

Barrett is obviously the better player right now. The point is to show that the style of player Barnes is. Barnes is a much more impactful player because of his stocks and how it directly means there was a prevention in the other team scoring and likely a creation in transition.

Barrett on the other hand trades buckets with the other team. He gives up points and then he generally breaks even with interior bucks (non 3pt plays or FTs). He doesn't get FTs, And 1s, or 3pt shots at an elite level. This is why he's similar to DeRozan as an addition by subtraction type of player.

Barret has been scoring at an efficient rate with us, and while he's not a great defender like Barnes, I don't think he's hemorrhaging points on that end.

And our main point is that using plus/minus to support that argument is stupid. Barnes was -33, -13,-2 and -1 (in an 8 point win) in his games but nobody would use that to suggets he's not impactful.

[bonjovi0308]

May I ask if RJ's defense has improved this year?

[deck]

May I ask if RJ's defense has improved this year?

I would say he is more or less the same on defence. I think the combination of Shead and Mitchell at PG the majority of the time has helped though.

[Clincher]

I think ppl forget how young RJ is and how **** of a situation he was in entering the league. When was the last time NYK drafted and developed a top end talent? Give him some time and let him get his reps. If he can continue to work on his tunnel vision and bad shots he is easily an All-star level player.

Porzingis pre injuries and ego.

And one of your best players, Immanuel Quickley.

That's it literally over the past 20 years lol. Zinger never lived up close to his potential. IQ is great but nowhere near top end talent.

20 years? David Lee was a really nice player. Made all star game. Really good offensive PF, defense ehh but for a late round 1 pick, he was good for the Knicks and then Warriors.

Gallinari and W. Chandler showed enough to make Masai want to trade Melo to NYK.

Knicks never got the top pick in any of these drafts due to "reasons" so it's hard to draft and develop a superstar without that. Even the amazing 04 draft, Knicks were outside the top picks to get LBJ or Melo or Wade or Bosh.

[raincityraptors]

I think we are seeing RJ put effort in on defense and he looks way better on the ball this year than last year. He is moving his feet and at least trying to keep a body in front of him. Off the ball he seems to have less awareness on how to position himself.

On offense it seems like everything is coming together for him. I really hope we see the ball in his hands more and more set plays for him once everyone is healthy.

He is better at using Jak's screening than anyone else on the team. He is showing that he can be the engine of a high octane offense.

(Take all of this with a grain of salt because RJ is my favorite player in the League.)

[youngRAPZ]

That's absurd. I think RJ played an ok game last night, but he was significantly more impactful than Mogbo on the outcome. What a ridiculous thing to say.

It kind of comes down to "stocks". Mogbo gets a lot of steals and blocks which doesn't even tell you everything. He affects shots at the rim and passing lanes. Barrett on the other hand doesn't generate many "stocks" and it's a reason why his +/- isn't great. Stocks generate transition opportunities that clearly impacts plus/minus while Barrett plays the interior scoring (lower PPP) game while giving up buckets on the other end.

Barret's +5 was best among the starters last night. Mogbo had more turnovers last night than stocks, so in terms of statistical impact on possessions, he was a -1 yesterday, same as Barret. Boucher was a +16 and had zero stocks.

You know very little about basketball if you think playing Mogbo for 40 minutes last night instead of Barret would have resulting is us winning by a larger margin (ie. That Mogbo has a greater impact on winning). It would not have even been possible, as Mogbo fouled out on 16 minutes of playing time.

I like Mogbo to be sure, and I don't think RJ a franchise cornerstone or anything like that, but this post seems needless and antagonistic.

Lol I don’t understand why people feel the need to put players down. I mean everyone here loves Scottie and I’m sure everyone thinks Scottie is the better prospect. But if somehow RJ ended up being the better player why is that a bad thing? Why do people feel the need to find something to complain about. lol I mean this guy is litterally looking for anything to complain about if he’s bringing up RJ only being +5. He didn’t even bother to look up Scottie’s stats before saying that lol he must’ve though Scottie was +30 on the season or something.

[YogurtProducer]

If you’re honestly comparing McDaniels to Barrett in any way shape or form I’m sorry man but I can’t trust your basketball evaluation skills. McDaniels was trash from the get go. Barrett was a top 3 pick for a reason. He has game. Has he reached his potential, no. But 10 times the player McDaniels is in his sleep. McDaniels is barely an nba player. Barrett actually has nba level skills.

I wasn't comparing their games, I was comparing the way people expected McDaniels to come in and be good. Same way people think that RJ is going to be a good addition to the team, and not like he's salary filler.

Rj is going to come in, shoot horrendously and be inefficient as he has every single year of his career, the dude AVERAGES a 51.8% TS%. People hated FVV, boy oh boy they are going to LOATHE him.

RJ is currently 167 out of 200 qualifying players for TS%.

Too many people commenting about his inclusion in the trade, and how he's going to be a "good running mate with Scottie" don't watch knicks/non raps games. And they are in for a rude awakening when they see him play.

RJ Barrett has started 296 games including on a playoff team last year. Acting like he is not going to come in and give us good minutes is just ridiculous.

No one is expecting him to be a superstar but sheesh, you act like he is a massive negative player. His contract might be an overpay, but he still will be at worst the 6th/7th best guy we got (Barnes - Siakam - Quickley - GTJ - Poeltl - Schroder - Barrett). We have been trotting out like 5 NBA caliber guys a game previously - RJ is an NBA rotational player.

Lol people compared RJ to McDaniels

[YogurtProducer]

I wasn't comparing their games, I was comparing the way people expected McDaniels to come in and be good. Same way people think that RJ is going to be a good addition to the team, and not like he's salary filler.

Rj is going to come in, shoot horrendously and be inefficient as he has every single year of his career, the dude AVERAGES a 51.8% TS%. People hated FVV, boy oh boy they are going to LOATHE him.

RJ is currently 167 out of 200 qualifying players for TS%.

Too many people commenting about his inclusion in the trade, and how he's going to be a "good running mate with Scottie" don't watch knicks/non raps games. And they are in for a rude awakening when they see him play.

RJ Barrett has started 296 games including on a playoff team last year. Acting like he is not going to come in and give us good minutes is just ridiculous.

No one is expecting him to be a superstar but sheesh, you act like he is a massive negative player. His contract might be an overpay, but he still will be at worst the 6th/7th best guy we got (Barnes - Siakam - Quickley - GTJ - Poeltl - Schroder - Barrett). We have been trotting out like 5 NBA caliber guys a game previously - RJ is an NBA rotational player.

He is damn near a negative in basically every single stat imaginable. Christ almighty you love to argue, RJ is not a good player.

Horrendous efficiency, a literal 0 in EPM, 158/200 in ws/48, negative BPM, negative VORP.

All I said was people expecting him to come in here and be a good player are going to be in for a rude awakening. I never said that in comparison to this **** sack of a roster he's bad, he's below average compared to the average NBA player. Who gives a rats ass if he was a starter for the Knicks. Schroder is a starter, Jak is a starter, GTJ is a starter, there are tons of starters in the league who aren't very good.

RJ is objectively not a good player, stop being such a god damn contrarian holy ****.

Always funny when people are so adamant about things like this.

[OakleyDokely]

When the trade happened, I thought he was just a salary match guy who at worst had a bad contract and at best had a neutral contract. But he has been very impressive so far. He's maintained his high usage while upping his efficiency dramatically.

In NY, he had a 25.7 USG with a .518 TS
in TOR, he has a 26.4 USG with a .611 TS

Even if he isn't a long term piece, he's rebuilt his value to point where he's an asset now.

[Vampirate]

It's great that RJ is still performing at this level. It answers some questions that many of us had based on his stint with the team last season. It's even better that he's still scoring efficiently and showing an ability to handle increased playmaking responsibilities.

However, is it hating to still have questions about what his role will be on a good team? It's not his fault he hasn't been able to play with Scottie and IQ so far (which may or may not be the makings of a "good team"), but will he keep up this kind of production when he does? If he doesn't, will his contributions have a positive impact on winning?

It's not like he's a pure empty calories guy chucking and putting up 25 points on 25 shots, but at the same time, his winning percentage with the Raptors has to be around 30-35%.

Is he actually a superstar who is going to put up an efficient 28 ppg, and the haters just need to adjust to that?

Or is he still going to end up the 3rd/4th best player on the team? If that's what happens, is that a good thing? Can he be effective in that role? Is he better off being a 6th man?

Is it hating to ask those questions?

If the answer to those questions is we don't know and we kind of don't need to know yet, I guess that's fine, but sometimes it seems like people think we shouldn't even be asking.

I'll answer some.

1. For starters he's shooting 46.2% from 3 on 6.5 attempts, by far his best stats and this will indeed drop.

2. Even if that does i'm not holding it against him, seeing clips i've come to appreciate his shooting, I believe he's a very good catch and shoot player from 3, but not a good shooter with any levels of movement.

3. He's still not a good defender 123 drtg and -2 DBPM, however due to what we've put out there it's possible he's better than the numbers have shown.

4. I think his assists are bring propped up, however even in NY he had a positive A/TO ratio, he's a willing passer, just not Barnes level gifted. The fact that his assists haven't sky rocketed though is a good sign.

5. I think my favourite thing about him is he seems to be amicable to work with the team in that I don't see a me first guy, he seems to accept a 31 role on offence or a #4 role which I do believe is underrated.

6. I think he's a #3 or #4 on a good team. For reference MPJ is the #3 or #4 on the Nuggets (of course i'm talking about Toronto Barrett assuming he keeps his his 20+ PPG 58+% TS over 2/1 A/TO ratio.

[YogurtProducer]

When the trade happened, I thought he was just a salary match guy who at worst had a bad contract and at best had a neutral contract. But he has been very impressive so far. He's maintained his high usage while upping his efficiency dramatically.

In NY, he had a 25.7 USG with a .518 TS
in TOR, he has a 26.4 USG with a .611 TS

Even if he isn't a long term piece, he's rebuilt his value to point where he's an asset now.

Almost like 23/24 year olds are not finished products, and there is still room for growth and improvement. We have seen it with RJ and IQ. We are seeing it with Ochai.

[Johnston]

Porzingis pre injuries and ego.

And one of your best players, Immanuel Quickley.

That's it literally over the past 20 years lol. Zinger never lived up close to his potential. IQ is great but nowhere near top end talent.

20 years? David Lee was a really nice player. Made all star game. Really good offensive PF, defense ehh but for a late round 1 pick, he was good for the Knicks and then Warriors.

Gallinari and W. Chandler showed enough to make Masai want to trade Melo to NYK.

Knicks never got the top pick in any of these drafts due to "reasons" so it's hard to draft and develop a superstar without that. Even the amazing 04 draft, Knicks were outside the top picks to get LBJ or Melo or Wade or Bosh.

If you had to rank all the players to come and go during those periods where would they rank lol? Top 250-500? Other teams have hit with picks in the 20s.

[YogurtProducer]

Porzingis pre injuries and ego.

And one of your best players, Immanuel Quickley.

That's it literally over the past 20 years lol. Zinger never lived up close to his potential. IQ is great but nowhere near top end talent.

20 years? David Lee was a really nice player. Made all star game. Really good offensive PF, defense ehh but for a late round 1 pick, he was good for the Knicks and then Warriors.

Gallinari and W. Chandler showed enough to make Masai want to trade Melo to NYK.

Knicks never got the top pick in any of these drafts due to "reasons" so it's hard to draft and develop a superstar without that. Even the amazing 04 draft, Knicks were outside the top picks to get LBJ or Melo or Wade or Bosh.

Never got a top pick? What are we calling:
#8 Frye
#6 Gallo
#8 Hill
#4 Kristaps
#8 Ntilikina
#9 Knox
#3 RJ
#8 Obi

That is a loooot of top 10 picks to have to come out with like 2 starting caliber guys lol

Compare that to a team like Toronto getting FVV / Siakam / OG / Powell / Poeltl in a 2/3 year span picking no higher than 9th and only picking above 20th once

[MEDIC]

When the trade happened, I thought he was just a salary match guy who at worst had a bad contract and at best had a neutral contract. But he has been very impressive so far. He's maintained his high usage while upping his efficiency dramatically.

In NY, he had a 25.7 USG with a .518 TS
in TOR, he has a 26.4 USG with a .611 TS

Even if he isn't a long term piece, he's rebuilt his value to point where he's an asset now.

Almost like 23/24 year olds are not finished products, and there is still room for growth and improvement. We have seen it with RJ and IQ. We are seeing it with Ochai.

.......and Lowry & Siakam & Norm Powell & Demar........the list goes on and on. The more I look around, the more I realize there are so many guys take huge jumps when they are 26+ years old.

[Psubs]

Never got a top pick? What are we calling:
#8 Frye
#6 Gallo
#8 Hill
#4 Kristaps
#8 Ntilikina
#9 Knox
#3 RJ
#8 Obi

That is a loooot of top 10 picks to have to come out with like 2 starting caliber guys lol

Compare that to a team like Toronto getting FVV / Siakam / OG / Powell / Poeltl in a 2/3 year span picking no higher than 9th and only picking above 20th once

Poor drafting. lol

EVERYONE knew that Channing Frye had a decent floor but low ceiling.

Can't say they should've drafted Danny Granger but they should've drafted Andrew Bynum.

It started by trading for Eddy Curry. They traded away 2006 1st pick (which was Lamarcus Aldridge) and 2007 1st pick (which was Joakim Noah).

Derozan or Brandon Jennings were the OBVIOUS choices over Jordan Hill. After they drafted Jordan Hill, I thought to myself, the Knicks did it (Channing Frye) again.

Porzingis was a good gamble and that was Phil Jackson's call.

Donovan Mitchell wanted to be a Knick and they should've drafted him instead of Ntilikina. Another obvious draft selection.

[Thaddy]

It kind of comes down to "stocks". Mogbo gets a lot of steals and blocks which doesn't even tell you everything. He affects shots at the rim and passing lanes. Barrett on the other hand doesn't generate many "stocks" and it's a reason why his +/- isn't great. Stocks generate transition opportunities that clearly impacts plus/minus while Barrett plays the interior scoring (lower PPP) game while giving up buckets on the other end.

Barret's +5 was best among the starters last night. Mogbo had more turnovers last night than stocks, so in terms of statistical impact on possessions, he was a -1 yesterday, same as Barret. Boucher was a +16 and had zero stocks.

You know very little about basketball if you think playing Mogbo for 40 minutes last night instead of Barret would have resulting is us winning by a larger margin (ie. That Mogbo has a greater impact on winning). It would not have even been possible, as Mogbo fouled out on 16 minutes of playing time.

I like Mogbo to be sure, and I don't think RJ a franchise cornerstone or anything like that, but this post seems needless and antagonistic.

Lol I don’t understand why people feel the need to put players down. I mean everyone here loves Scottie and I’m sure everyone thinks Scottie is the better prospect. But if somehow RJ ended up being the better player why is that a bad thing? Why do people feel the need to find something to complain about. lol I mean this guy is litterally looking for anything to complain about if he’s bringing up RJ only being +5. He didn’t even bother to look up Scottie’s stats before saying that lol he must’ve though Scottie was +30 on the season or something.

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

[Psubs]

Barret's +5 was best among the starters last night. Mogbo had more turnovers last night than stocks, so in terms of statistical impact on possessions, he was a -1 yesterday, same as Barret. Boucher was a +16 and had zero stocks.

You know very little about basketball if you think playing Mogbo for 40 minutes last night instead of Barret would have resulting is us winning by a larger margin (ie. That Mogbo has a greater impact on winning). It would not have even been possible, as Mogbo fouled out on 16 minutes of playing time.

I like Mogbo to be sure, and I don't think RJ a franchise cornerstone or anything like that, but this post seems needless and antagonistic.

Lol I don’t understand why people feel the need to put players down. I mean everyone here loves Scottie and I’m sure everyone thinks Scottie is the better prospect. But if somehow RJ ended up being the better player why is that a bad thing? Why do people feel the need to find something to complain about. lol I mean this guy is litterally looking for anything to complain about if he’s bringing up RJ only being +5. He didn’t even bother to look up Scottie’s stats before saying that lol he must’ve though Scottie was +30 on the season or something.

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

It sucks that we might have to Derozan him.

[youngRAPZ]

Barret's +5 was best among the starters last night. Mogbo had more turnovers last night than stocks, so in terms of statistical impact on possessions, he was a -1 yesterday, same as Barret. Boucher was a +16 and had zero stocks.

You know very little about basketball if you think playing Mogbo for 40 minutes last night instead of Barret would have resulting is us winning by a larger margin (ie. That Mogbo has a greater impact on winning). It would not have even been possible, as Mogbo fouled out on 16 minutes of playing time.

I like Mogbo to be sure, and I don't think RJ a franchise cornerstone or anything like that, but this post seems needless and antagonistic.

Lol I don’t understand why people feel the need to put players down. I mean everyone here loves Scottie and I’m sure everyone thinks Scottie is the better prospect. But if somehow RJ ended up being the better player why is that a bad thing? Why do people feel the need to find something to complain about. lol I mean this guy is litterally looking for anything to complain about if he’s bringing up RJ only being +5. He didn’t even bother to look up Scottie’s stats before saying that lol he must’ve though Scottie was +30 on the season or something.

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

Just because you repeat the same things over and over again doesn’t make it true. Kinda like what you said in that dumb thread you made about bouche. Wrong then probably wrong now!