Thoughts on Donovan right now

[Stratmaster]

My thought on Billy Donovan is that this roster is fatally flawed and Billy Donovan does not rate in the list of current concerns.

Focusing on Donovan is like having a potentially fatal disease you need to aggressively treat but instead worrying about some mild knee pain. How about we fix the urgent thing before spending too much time wringing hands about a minor thing?

Two things can be true at the same time.

Sorry, I just can’t be worried right now about whether the hubcaps on the Yugo look nice. Billy Donovan is not a meaningful problem for this current Bulls roster.

The roster isn't fatally flawed, though. What are they? 18-12 the last 30 games... with more than a couple blown games against weak teams that didn't have to happen with any semblance of late game coaching and play.



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Let me get my “18-12 over the last 30” foam finger printed up.

The roster is obviously fatally flawed. One of the reasons you know that is the Bulls’ best stretch of play has come without their most expensive player. But even if they can be better than they’ve been with Zach, this is ultimately a roster centered around veteran players that has a very limited ceiling. That’s not the same as saying the roster is terrible. But the roster has no path to contention and needs significant reworking.

Again. Not really all that true as far as the without their most expensive player part.

13-10 without Zach
5-2 with Zach
I WANT TO ADD...before anyone says it, I didn't bring up Lavine. You did.

18-12 total. Sure. Get a foam finger. Just remember those 30 games are 62٪ of the season played to date. It's a large and consecutive sample size of the games played so far this season. As well as the most recent.

You don't identify the problems and then pick one to fix. You look to fix any and all of them.

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[samwana]

Can we reopen this question please?

[sco]

What I like about Billy:
- I've seen pretty much the whole roster adjust to Billy's new strategy of playing with pace and more 3's.
- I haven't heard any Zach/Billy noise
- Offensive chemistry seems good.

What I don't like:
- Our defense is terrible.
- Matas' developmental/entitlement minutes are too few (although he's not playing well)
- Despite the fact that we have fewer options due to injuries, I'm not a fan of giving Terry and THT rotation minutes.

[Dez]

What I like about Billy:
- I've seen pretty much the whole roster adjust to Billy's new strategy of playing with pace and more 3's.
- I haven't heard any Zach/Billy noise
- Offensive chemistry seems good.

What I don't like:
- Our defense is terrible.
- Matas' developmental/entitlement minutes are too few (although he's not playing well)
- Despite the fact that we have fewer options due to injuries, I'm not a fan of giving Terry and THT rotation minutes.

You can't blame Donovan for the defense being ass given the roster he has to work with.

[Jcool0]

What I like about Billy:
- I've seen pretty much the whole roster adjust to Billy's new strategy of playing with pace and more 3's.
- I haven't heard any Zach/Billy noise
- Offensive chemistry seems good.

What I don't like:
- Our defense is terrible.
- Matas' developmental/entitlement minutes are too few (although he's not playing well)
- Despite the fact that we have fewer options due to injuries, I'm not a fan of giving Terry and THT rotation minutes.

You can't blame Donovan for the defense being ass given the roster he has to work with.

When you give up 135 points to a bad offensive team... Its more then just a roster issue.

[Dez]

What I like about Billy:
- I've seen pretty much the whole roster adjust to Billy's new strategy of playing with pace and more 3's.
- I haven't heard any Zach/Billy noise
- Offensive chemistry seems good.

What I don't like:
- Our defense is terrible.
- Matas' developmental/entitlement minutes are too few (although he's not playing well)
- Despite the fact that we have fewer options due to injuries, I'm not a fan of giving Terry and THT rotation minutes.

You can't blame Donovan for the defense being ass given the roster he has to work with.

When you give up 135 points to a bad offensive team... Its more then just a roster issue.

Not really, we knew from the beginning that this team would be atrocious defensively.

It's very much a roster issue.

[samwana]

We have size, our highly regarded BD is just not using it. He is a genius, so AK is the problem or the players are the problem.
It definitely can't be the coach that is the problem. He has 2 NCAA titles to prove he is great.

[Stratmaster]

We have size, our highly regarded BD is just not using it. He is a genius, so AK is the problem or the players are the problem.
It definitely can't be the coach that is the problem. He has 2 NCAA titles to prove he is great.

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

[dougthonus]

We have size, our highly regarded BD is just not using it. He is a genius, so AK is the problem or the players are the problem.
It definitely can't be the coach that is the problem. He has 2 NCAA titles to prove he is great.

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

[Dez]

We have size, our highly regarded BD is just not using it. He is a genius, so AK is the problem or the players are the problem.
It definitely can't be the coach that is the problem. He has 2 NCAA titles to prove he is great.

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

Doug.....don't use logic and common sense.

[Stratmaster]

We have size, our highly regarded BD is just not using it. He is a genius, so AK is the problem or the players are the problem.
It definitely can't be the coach that is the problem. He has 2 NCAA titles to prove he is great.

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

Sorry. That's a cop out. Ignoring a problem is not an option. You try Ayo with the starters. You can simply swap with Coby or get more creative and put him in for Williams going with 3 guards and Giddy. Or you put Smith next to Vuc early (Bogans Williams).

Or I guess since the team is no good Billy doesn’t have to coach?

Whether it works or not isn't even the point at this stage.

[Stratmaster]

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

Doug.....don't use logic and common sense.

So it is illogical and nonsensical to expect the coach to attempt some adjustment to address a recurring issues that is losing you games?

Sure. Whatever you say.

Why don't they just give Donovan a vacation for the rest of the season since it seems there is no way to try to coach a .500 NBA team?

What is illogical and nonsensical is not to try to do something.

[dougthonus]

Sorry. That's a cop out. Ignoring a problem is not an option. You try Ayo with the starters. You can simply swap with Coby or get more creative and put him in for Williams going with 3 guards and Giddy. Or you put Smith next to Vuc early (Bogans Williams).

Or I guess since the team is no good Billy doesn’t have to coach?

Whether it works or not isn't even the point at this stage.

Zach, Giddey, Coby, Ayo, Jalen, Vuc, Lonzo, and Pat are the only guys you'd say are probably rotation caliber players on a good team. Of those, no one is a legit #1, dicey whether any are a legit #2, probably only Zach and Lonzo are for sure starting caliber players of the entire group with Giddey, Coby, Ayo, Jalen, and Vuc all being better suited to be bench players.

The rest of the team is a bunch of hot garbage.

Of that group, you have a combined 11 games missed, including 10 by the two guys I called starting caliber players, which means on average, your team has 1 starting caliber player and 6 rotation caliber players and a bunch of fringe guys who stink to choose from.

There's a reason Vegas predicted we'd win 27 games this year.

You say to start Ayo, but he's playing 28 minutes a game already and isn't playing particularly well. He's got negative VORP, negative BPM, a PER of 10, is shooting 21% from three. Billy's shown a willingness over time to mix things up. The Bulls are 4-6 which is probably a game better than expectations, and coaches generally want to see a thing for awhile before they go nuts screwing with things.

Of the adjustments we haven't seen much of, I'd look to play Jalen along side Vuc at PF when the opposing team has two bigger players in there, but overall, I think Billy's a decent coach. There isn't much to work with here.

[Dez]

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

Doug.....don't use logic and common sense.

So it is illogical and nonsensical to expect the coach to attempt some adjustment to address a recurring issues that is losing you games?

Sure. Whatever you say.

Why don't they just give Donovan a vacation for the rest of the season since it seems there is no way to try to coach a .500 NBA team?

What is illogical and nonsensical is not to try to do something.

Do what? The roster is a defensively inept mess, we aren't a .500 team.

A coaching staff isn't responsible for players being careless with the ball which alongside being atrocious defensively is the Bulls biggest problem.

This team is literally built to destroy teams with the 3 ball or lose, that's it.

[Stratmaster]

Sorry. That's a cop out. Ignoring a problem is not an option. You try Ayo with the starters. You can simply swap with Coby or get more creative and put him in for Williams going with 3 guards and Giddy. Or you put Smith next to Vuc early (Bogans Williams).

Or I guess since the team is no good Billy doesn’t have to coach?

Whether it works or not isn't even the point at this stage.

Zach, Giddey, Coby, Ayo, Jalen, Vuc, Lonzo, and Pat are the only guys you'd say are probably rotation caliber players on a good team. Of those, no one is a legit #1, dicey whether any are a legit #2, probably only Zach and Lonzo are for sure starting caliber players of the entire group with Giddey, Coby, Ayo, Jalen, and Vuc all being better suited to be bench players.

The rest of the team is a bunch of hot garbage.

Of that group, you have a combined 11 games missed, including 10 by the two guys I called starting caliber players, which means on average, your team has 1 starting caliber player and 6 rotation caliber players and a bunch of fringe guys who stink to choose from.

There's a reason Vegas predicted we'd win 27 games this year.

You say to start Ayo, but he's playing 28 minutes a game already and isn't playing particularly well. He's got negative VORP, negative BPM, a PER of 10, is shooting 21% from three. Billy's shown a willingness over time to mix things up. The Bulls are 4-6 which is probably a game better than expectations, and coaches generally want to see a thing for awhile before they go nuts screwing with things.

Of the adjustments we haven't seen much of, I'd look to play Jalen along side Vuc at PF when the opposing team has two bigger players in there, but overall, I think Billy's a decent coach. There isn't much to work with here.

You are veering into a different discussion. I'm simply saying he has to do something to try to stop being behind by 15 after one quarter.

That's what a coach does. Like I said, whether it works or not.

[Tetlak]

When the Bulls gave up 70 in the first half and had only used 1 timeout, I thought I was insane. Surely the TV graphic had to be wrong, right?

[RSP83]

And we keep getting owned in every q1, and over the10 games the head coach has made sweeping changes to quickly right the ship before it gets out of hand, right?

Oh...wait...

Yeah, the problem is definitely that Billy isn't making adjustments, not that the choices to adjust to are largely fringe NBA players.

Sorry. That's a cop out. Ignoring a problem is not an option. You try Ayo with the starters. You can simply swap with Coby or get more creative and put him in for Williams going with 3 guards and Giddy. Or you put Smith next to Vuc early (Bogans Williams).

Or I guess since the team is no good Billy doesn’t have to coach?

Whether it works or not isn't even the point at this stage.

My biggest question with this team and the coaching is how do they define success for this season? Because the answer will give a better idea on how I should assess Billy. At the moment I can't figure out what is asked of Billy. If he's asked to win as many games as possible, then he's been doing somewhat poor at it with his rotation and in-game decisions (regardless of talent available). If he's asked to develop our young players then he's also showing that he's not fully committed to that. Regardless of which one is his actual mission, he's doing poorly on both. It may not be fair to him, because AKME is also hugely accountable for this situation.

[AhUtopian]

I like the substitution Billy made last game vs Hawks early into 3rd Q , that might be the most p impressive( positive ) in court decision I can recall in the years with him coaching Bulls .

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[RSP83]

By the way, Jalen Smith only getting a little below 15 minutes a game is mind blowing for me.

His per 36 minutes compared to Pat's looks crazy. Thing is the optics sort of checks out too. I guess it's more disappointing on Pat's part.

[Dez]

By the way, Jalen Smith only getting a little below 15 minutes a game is mind blowing for me.

His per 36 minutes compared to Pat's looks crazy. Thing is the optics sort of checks out too. I guess it's more disappointing on Pat's part.

One of Cowley or KC said Smith wasn't in shape for big minutes yet and he's building.