Political Roundtable Part XXXIII

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Shoulda went on Joe Rogan

Should have made the race about electing a criminal President, Trump was relentless in attacking while Harris fought-back worse than Mr. Burns. I don’t think any woman would have won though

No woman could have won. I agree.

Maybe, if she had looked like a 35-year-old Caitlin Clark and her name was Karen, that person might have had a chance.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/exit-polls-2024-election/

White women voters went for Trump at basically the same rate they did in 2020, that's the biggest slice of the electorate Harris was trying to slice off and absolutely nothing happened. Republicans had the stamina to keep their wingnuts galvanized by abortion for 40 years, Dems couldn't maintain it for more than two.

I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

And yes Trump voters are bad, evil people. Come on. It's objectively true. What's about to happen over the next 16 years or whatever it takes him to die is going to be particularly horrible for minorities and marginalized people in this country, and anyone who disagrees with him, or anyone he decides he doesn't like, unless he fails spectacularly to deliver on what he got elected to do. The people who voted for him to do this are terrible people. Don't blame me for pointing this out. Blame the evil people who voted for him. These are not good people. Harris lost because she couldn't maintain the fever pitch of righteous anger against Trump that occurred in 2020, which is natural. Being evil is easy, being decent is exhausting.

Yall gotta be more positive. Maybe we're entering a new golden age of america.

A golden shower age?

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[Pointgod]

Republicans were able to turn out the same number of voters that they did in 2020 and the Dems couldn't. Dems were banking on women turning out and maybe they didn't. Dems needed cities like Milwaukee to turn out and they definitely didn't, and that is probably because of stubbornness on Israel. Will be interesting to get the turnout numbers by demographic over the next few months and figure out what happened. Or not, I mean it's all over now. Forget elections, my immediate concern are imminent Republican caused economic disasters.

My main concern now is Trump's idiotic proposal to replace income tax with tariffs, which would cause inflation and a global recession. Should I advise everyone in my family to cash out now? But won't inflation destroy the value of that cash anyway? Or should I wait to see if the Republicans actually write something like that into their budget (meaning it will almost certainly pass) and then cash out? Or will it be too late by then? Like, ok I'm a terrible amateur political scientist, but I am a fairly decent economist and I know that making changes to the tax code like Trump idiotically proposed during the campaign would be insanely stupid. Maybe his billionaire friends will talk him out of it.

Ironic that Trump's biggest advantage was caretaking of the economy. Man the guys who voted for him because of that are stupid. No way around it. That is flat out dumb.

The inflation we experienced post covid was because the economy didn't grow as much as it could have during Trump's presidency because of his idiotic trade war with China. So now he's going to double down on that stupidity. Christ.

Any evidence to support Democratic turnout being down?

[Jkam31]

Shoulda went on Joe Rogan

She can’t laugh for three hours

[montestewart]

Shoulda went on Joe Rogan

Guess Dick Van Dyke doesn’t have the juice anymore

Man I thought you were kidding, I honestly thought he was dead. Dude is about to turn 99.

it was an amusing counterpoint to Rogan‘s last minute endorsement, like it would put her over the top. Not sure Dick Van Dyke ever endorsed anybody before, He always seemed moderate and apolitical Never too late to back a loser.

[AFM]

Shoulda went on Joe Rogan

She can’t laugh for three hours

Imagine if she smoked reefer with Joe Rogan

[closg00]

The conspiracy shoe is on the other foot now, I would like to see an analyst explain the numbers, as an aside, it funny how Elon added this context to the viral Tweet, never seen a like “context” added to a
MAGA post.

Read on Twitter

[Kanyewest]

I called it from the beginning, Harris was a terrible candidate and they ran a terrible campaign. However, given the pinch of inflation on the average American, not sure any Dem could have won.

I promise you this though, a year from now if all the economic indicators are the same as today, Republicans and MAGA will brag about how things are so great, you can take that to the bank.

Disagree with you about her being a terrible candidate but the results are the results.

Totally agree with you about MAGA taking credit for the economy.

Far from the best. I believe she was 5th or 6th by the time she dropped off in 2020. Not to mention she had to carry baggage from the last administration through no fault of her own.

Hopefully the democrats will do some real soul searching and take the correct decisions from this(although they will have to overcome the bad decision makers there that are still entrenched)

[Zonkerbl]

Republicans were able to turn out the same number of voters that they did in 2020 and the Dems couldn't. Dems were banking on women turning out and maybe they didn't. Dems needed cities like Milwaukee to turn out and they definitely didn't, and that is probably because of stubbornness on Israel. Will be interesting to get the turnout numbers by demographic over the next few months and figure out what happened. Or not, I mean it's all over now. Forget elections, my immediate concern are imminent Republican caused economic disasters.

My main concern now is Trump's idiotic proposal to replace income tax with tariffs, which would cause inflation and a global recession. Should I advise everyone in my family to cash out now? But won't inflation destroy the value of that cash anyway? Or should I wait to see if the Republicans actually write something like that into their budget (meaning it will almost certainly pass) and then cash out? Or will it be too late by then? Like, ok I'm a terrible amateur political scientist, but I am a fairly decent economist and I know that making changes to the tax code like Trump idiotically proposed during the campaign would be insanely stupid. Maybe his billionaire friends will talk him out of it.

Ironic that Trump's biggest advantage was caretaking of the economy. Man the guys who voted for him because of that are stupid. No way around it. That is flat out dumb.

The inflation we experienced post covid was because the economy didn't grow as much as it could have during Trump's presidency because of his idiotic trade war with China. So now he's going to double down on that stupidity. Christ.

Any evidence to support Democratic turnout being down?

Not counting CAs late incoming ballots, Dems have 64 million votes, compared to 80 million in 2020. Even with CA we're talking a decline in turnout of about 10 million people, relative to a 2 million decline for the Republicans. I would imagine that Trump did not convince 8 million voters to switch sides overnight, I'm betting that's 8 million Dems who chose not to show up.

[pancakes3]

I called it from the beginning, Harris was a terrible candidate and they ran a terrible campaign. However, given the pinch of inflation on the average American, not sure any Dem could have won.

I promise you this though, a year from now if all the economic indicators are the same as today, Republicans and MAGA will brag about how things are so great, you can take that to the bank.

Disagree with you about her being a terrible candidate but the results are the results.

Totally agree with you about MAGA taking credit for the economy.

Far from the best. I believe she was 5th or 6th by the time she dropped off in 2020. Not to mention she had to carry baggage from the last administration through no fault of her own.

Hopefully the democrats will do some real soul searching and take the correct decisions from this(although they will have to overcome the bad decision makers there that are still entrenched)

I don't think she had baggage; there was a lot from Biden's term she could have used to her benefit - CHIPS Act, Inflation Act, Infrastructure Bill, all very positive and impactful legislation. She could have also talked about R's being obstructionists on student loan relief.

Instead, it was Orange Man Bad.

[Zonkerbl]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

[closg00]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

[Kanyewest]

Disagree with you about her being a terrible candidate but the results are the results.

Totally agree with you about MAGA taking credit for the economy.

Far from the best. I believe she was 5th or 6th by the time she dropped off in 2020. Not to mention she had to carry baggage from the last administration through no fault of her own.

Hopefully the democrats will do some real soul searching and take the correct decisions from this(although they will have to overcome the bad decision makers there that are still entrenched)

I don't think she had baggage; there was a lot from Biden's term she could have used to her benefit - CHIPS Act, Inflation Act, Infrastructure Bill, all very positive and impactful legislation. She could have also talked about R's being obstructionists on student loan relief.

Instead, it was Orange Man Bad.

Yeah, she certainly had some things going for her but overall the administration was getting negative reviews. Specifically on the left there was lower voter turnout because of Palestine/Israel, or the US's harsh immigration policy - supposedly done to convert more moderate voters which appears to be a losing cause. The Ukraine/Russia war may perhaps be the right thing to do but it wasn't moving anyone even from the non-voting section of the population. (I know 2 people who are Ukranian who didn't vote or voted for Trump- basically voting against their own interest)

And some portion of the voters always seem to blame the Democrats for not passing legislation even though the Republicans have been holding up legislation such as the Immigration bill. Not sure what the Democrats can do about those things baked into the consititution.

While perhaps no implicit fault of her own, she never went through a primary where she pulled it all together to show that she was a strong candidate. No emergency primary made the Democratic party seem undemocratic- which hopefully (although I doubt) the Democrats put in a plan for next time like other nations. Also think she may have faced the lesson that Hillary found out in that there is a lot bias in place that will make it hard to elect a woman. Basically she's not Obama (and clearly no other Democrat is).


Not sure what has to be done for Democrats to win the intellectual debates anymore with the general public. i.e inflation is up in a global sense and in the US is relatively low but I see Republicans on my twitter feed- "I can't believe that 20 wings and a drink cost 50 dollars". It is easier to get public support when you have a good orator like Obama. Harris isn't that. Nor was her background helpful in attracting Midwest voters or securing a state like Pennsylvania. It also seems like African Americans were not all that thrilled to vote for her either.

[Wizardspride]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

Fine with me.

This is what the country wants...cool.

I hope Trump/Musk fulfill ALL of their promises.

[Pointgod]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

Fine with me.

This is what the country wants...cool.

I hope Trump/Musk fulfill ALL of their promises.

Yeah no crying, no protesting, no saying how everything is rigged and unfair for Republicans. Literally voters had one job to stop this with their votes and completely whiffed. Republicans told everyone every hateful and spiteful thing they’d do and guess what when you lie, cheat and steal without voters holding you accountable you get to do want you want.

[Kanyewest]

Orange man bad unsurprisingly didn't capture the imagination of democratic voters, so they stayed home.

The democrats didn't run on orange man bad though. believing they did is just buying into right wing propaganda, which is, essentially, almost all media at this point.

They did a little, and it's hard not to, but apparently they didn't sufficiently couple it with an appealing and well articulated stand alone vision of their own. I don't really blame Harris for stumbling through circumstances into her candidacy (because who else were they going to run other than Biden?) but to me she didn't communicate her alternative to Trump well enough to counter the enthusiasm/fear he generated.

I have friends and family who are Trump supporters, and "evil" is not a term I would attach to them. I have had enough political conversations with them to say that "ill-informed" frequently seems appropriate, especially regarding history and law, while others vote on a single issue (usually abortion) or a narrow set of issues and ignore others almost as if wearing blinders.

I think a few male friends I've known since high school perhaps secretly believe that white males are authentically an endangered species deserving of special protection. I don't really understand how they got to buying into Woke, Me Too, DEI, etc. being infringements on their personhood, but I can't help noticing the sensitivity that I sometimes feel subtly conveyed as if they are recruiting new members.

My record has been shattered. I didn't think Reagan would win in 1980, Clinton would win in 1992, Bush would win in 2000, Obama would win in 2008, Trump would win in 2016, or Biden would win in 2020. I didn't think Harris would win, and damn if I wasn't right for once. Bummer.

Teacher in English school back to middle school is that ignorance leads to evil.


Anyways, I think the party leaders (Obama, Clintons, Biden, Pelosi, etc)/key donors wanted someone other than Harris. But I don't think Harris was willing to step aside given that she had control over the current presidential funds.

[Wizardspride]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

Fine with me.

This is what the country wants...cool.

I hope Trump/Musk fulfill ALL of their promises.

Yeah no crying, no protesting, no saying how everything is rigged and unfair for Republicans. Literally voters had one job to stop this with their votes and completely whiffed. Republicans told everyone every hateful and spiteful thing they’d do and guess what when you lie, cheat and steal without voters holding you accountable you get to do want you want.

Yep.

I was upset at first but I'm strangely at peace now.

I've just come to conclusion that a significant number of my fellow citizens are accepting of sexism, racism etc.

I'm just going to worry about my friends, family and like-minded people.


I've been looking at moving abroad for almost a year now.

Maybe it's time to put those plans motion.

[bsilver]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

Obamacare is probably safe. Trump himself said he wasn't planning to repeal it. There will be other healthcare cuts. Especially Medicaid.
I find it hard to believe Robert Kennedy will get much say. Even the Rs know he's a nutcase and isn't one of them. Good article that came out today:
https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/11/06/nx-s1-5181861/2024-election-trump-kennedy-health-care

[closg00]

Think Shapiro would have made a difference?

[Benjammin]

Think Shapiro would have made a difference?

Maybe in Pennsylvania, but overall, I don't think so. Harris had a much harder job to do. She entered the game down three touchdowns. The Democratic Party needs to do some soul-searching rather than simply blame Biden or Harris. Or they can just say behind closed doors as at least one person in this thread has done that half of the country is evil, racist/sexist/transphobic/ and irredeemable.