In a draft for today: Jokic vs Shaq

[durantbird]

Both signed up to a draft in the beginning of the their careers, and you're building a team for today. With everything we know about them now, who would you draft - The Joker or The Big Diesel?

[One_and_Done]

Easily Shaq.

[70sFan]

Easily Shaq.

Shaq played in a bush league, right?

[tsherkin]

Easily Shaq.

"Easily" is a big word for a dude who had no range and was considerably less skillful as a playmaker, who was a giant issue at the line and wasn't more efficient, even relative to the league of his time.

[One_and_Done]

Easily Shaq.

Shaq played in a bush league, right?

Pretty big difference between the 93-06 period and the 60s. Shaq played in a weaker era than today, but there are certain guys who translate fine. He's definitely one of them.

[70sFan]

Easily Shaq.

"Easily" is a big word for a dude who had no range and was considerably less skillful as a playmaker, who was a giant issue at the line and wasn't more efficient, even relative to the league of his time.

Not to mention the defensive issues Shaq would have today.

[One_and_Done]

Easily Shaq.

"Easily" is a big word for a dude who had no range and was considerably less skillful as a playmaker, who was a giant issue at the line and wasn't more efficient, even relative to the league of his time.

Not to mention the defensive issues Shaq would have today.

Young Shaq was much more agile and athletic than Jokic ever was. Now whether he could keep the weight off later is another matter.

[DirtyDez]

Jokic is this generation’s Tim Duncan in terms of having a drama free superstar to build around. Plus Joker is more entertaining IMO.

[70sFan]

"Easily" is a big word for a dude who had no range and was considerably less skillful as a playmaker, who was a giant issue at the line and wasn't more efficient, even relative to the league of his time.

Not to mention the defensive issues Shaq would have today.

Young Shaq was much more agile and athletic than Jokic ever was. Now whether he could keep the weight off later is another matter.

Young Shaq was also worse defensively than the older version because of his horrible fundamentals and poor awareness. Young Shaq would never be a good defender today, unless you want to give older player skills he never possessed - do you?

[One_and_Done]

I'm comparing his D to Jokic, not Tim Duncan. Jokic has terrible mobility.

NB: I'm assuming I get both for their full career. If they could leave then I'm taking Jokic for sure, unless I'm in LA maybe.

[tsherkin]

"Easily" is a big word for a dude who had no range and was considerably less skillful as a playmaker, who was a giant issue at the line and wasn't more efficient, even relative to the league of his time.

Not to mention the defensive issues Shaq would have today.

Young Shaq was much more agile and athletic than Jokic ever was. Now whether he could keep the weight off later is another matter.

Young Shaq would still have issues with defense in today's environment, and as 70s aptly noted, he was much less developed in terms of defensive fundamentals. He blocked more shots but his rotational D was extremely simplistic and vulnerable. And he got picked apart on PnR action all throughout his career, and was worse and worse out in space as he slowed with added weight and age. But even Shaq in his 20s would have troubles today.

And that still doesn't even begin to address the differences offensively.

[70sFan]

I'm comparing his D to Jokic, not Tim Duncan. Jokic has terrible mobility.

There is a wider spectrum of defensive effectiveness than being Duncan or Jokic, you know?

[tsherkin]

Easily Shaq.

Shaq played in a bush league, right?

Pretty big difference between the 93-06 period and the 60s. Shaq played in a weaker era than today, but there are certain guys who translate fine. He's definitely one of them.

He'd do well. He would, however, not exert the same level of offensive force as he did in his own time. He has a cap on his raw efficiency because he was so incompetent at the line, and couldn't even think of supplementing with a couple threes per game.

He'd exert good foul pressure. He ran well in transition, he moved well without the ball, he was a pretty good offensive rebounder and all that. But he also couldn't exist more than 10 feet from the basket and his efficacy dropped off considerably as he moved beyond about 7 feet, unless he was cutting in around a slasher's dribble penetration or chasing a lob or whatever. So he would have real limitations today.

It's worth remembering that league average efficiency the past two seasons was only 0.5% or so below Shaq's career average, and he posted 59%+ TS on 20+ ppg only twice in his career. It's possible that with the way FG% inside 3 feet has gone over the past 20 years, he might see a little boost, but dude was dunking 200-250+ times per season in his tracked career and still never shot 80% inside 3 feet, so the boost he would receive couldn't really be that large. He's likely to see a fairly tepid boost compared to what others could envision.

And spamming shots into him on the block without illegal defense becomes a little more challenging when we're looking at straight-up isolation sets.

So again, we're looking at someone who isn't going to have the same impact on the current league as he did in his own time, even if the spacing would help him when he did get the ball in close, for sure.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Not easily, but clearly Jokic for me.
Better on both sides of the court

[70sFan]

Not easily, but clearly Jokic for me.
Better on both sides of the court

I wouldn't go that far on defense.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Not easily, but clearly Jokic for me.
Better on both sides of the court

I wouldn't go that far on defense.

I would, in particular if I would have to project Shaq in today's league.