2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[Zadeh]

That Jokic is always being portrayed as having a weak team may be a symptom of a deeper structural issue and that issue may well be that Jokic plays the center position. You ask could Tatum carry a team with Murray and MPJ to a great record? I'm thinking why not? The advantage Tatum would have is that without Jokic the center position opens up to a more natural defensive fit. The problem with Jokic being capable of doing everything is that he ends up doing everything.

is this some kind of joke ?

if not, it is showing one of the greatest ignorance of basketball knowledge.

Especially giving all Front Office faults to Jokic may be symptom of most idiotic basketball argument of all time.

Tatum play with two all defensive caliber defender, potentially 4 all star level player. By the way Jokic best teammate is Murray, at best is average guard in this league. After seeing Jokic with Westbrook I'm in very doubt Murray can be a starter in any non Jokic team.

And Celtics won just 7 more games than Denver. Exchange Jokic with Tatum + defensive center gives 64 w to Denver ? It is more than absurt.

Jokic is doing everything ???? Are you sure ???

This dude's usage rate is 29 ?? Only superstars in modern era with that type of usage rate are Bird and Duncan. Jokic is probably best ever player to involve his teammates to the game. Jokic average touch time is 2,6. There is 191 players ahead of him.

If your argument is Jokic doing everything, is totatlly nonsense. Because Tatum hold the ball longer than Jokic.

With Tatum + defensive center makes Denver barely a play-in team, actually in the west I doubt it. they cant be a play-in team

[WarriorGM]

That Jokic is always being portrayed as having a weak team may be a symptom of a deeper structural issue and that issue may well be that Jokic plays the center position. You ask could Tatum carry a team with Murray and MPJ to a great record? I'm thinking why not? The advantage Tatum would have is that without Jokic the center position opens up to a more natural defensive fit. The problem with Jokic being capable of doing everything is that he ends up doing everything.

is this some kind of joke ?

if not, it is showing one of the greatest ignorance of basketball knowledge.

Especially giving all Front Office faults to Jokic may be symptom of most idiotic basketball argument of all time.

Tatum play with two all defensive caliber defender, potentially 4 all star level player. By the way Jokic best teammate is Murray, at best is average guard in this league. After seeing Jokic with Westbrook I'm in very doubt Murray can be a starter in any non Jokic team.

And Celtics won just 7 more games than Denver. Exchange Jokic with Tatum + defensive center gives 64 w to Denver ? It is more than absurt.

Jokic is doing everything ???? Are you sure ???

This dude's usage rate is 29 ?? Only superstars in modern era with that type of usage rate are Bird and Duncan. Jokic is probably best ever player to involve his teammates to the game. Jokic average touch time is 2,6. There is 191 players ahead of him.

If your argument is Jokic doing everything, is totatlly nonsense. Because Tatum hold the ball longer than Jokic.

With Tatum + defensive center makes Denver barely a play-in team, actually in the west I doubt it. they cant be a play-in team

If all Jokic needs is more defensively oriented teammates like the ones Tatum had then the opportunity was there for the Nuggets to snatch Marcus Smart and Robert Williams when they became available and let go of Murray and Porter Jr.. Do you think that would have improved the Nuggets? If so then you have a road map for the future.

There was a comment earlier that Jokic was the most consistent player the last few years. Actually that designation should probably go to Jayson Tatum who has made the playoffs every year of his career so far from his rookie year onward and the conference finals or better 5 out of 7 of those times. I could see a team of Tatum and prime Al Horford or even Robert Williams making the playoffs. You think that's absurd?

You are equating usage with function. They are not the same.

[DCasey91]

Celtics would make the playoffs with or without Tatum. He walked into a 50+ win team

Nuggets without Jokic is Wizards town.

Bucks would make the playoffs with or without Giannis with Jrue and Middleton.
During their best years

It's not one season. It's multiple seasons from both teams

Heck your beloved Curry had Green which gives you an auto top 8 ranked defensive team year in year out when played the majority (oh wait he did finish 3rd DPOY in 2021) and it supercharges Curry (once again look at the history together).

Poster's logic is in fact illogical.

There's a reason Nuggets are doo doo without him because they are doo doo without him. That is logic

The saddest part is that Jokic has not had a top 15 offensive or defensive player consistently by his side. None have had individual accolades at maturation to speak of and this his peak/prime. That falls entirely on the FO.

Garnett gets the appreciation but compared to Jokic it isn't the same.

[Jailblazers7]

Feels to me like a voter fatigue year with Jokic, especially if he doesn’t land a top 4 seed. If Tatum keeps up these numbers, I think he wins it.

[Exp0sed]

Feels to me like a voter fatigue year with Jokic, especially if he doesn’t land a top 4 seed. If Tatum keeps up these numbers, I think he wins it.

it's halftime over in Denver, the Nuggets are leading 71-60 over the Heat. Jokic has 16 pts (on 6-7 FG and 4-4 FT), 6 Rebs, 8 Ast, a steal and a team high (as always) +21. if he keeps up what he's been doing, there will be no "voter fatigue"

their schedule has been easy, he should come back down to earth at some point but atm he's basically having the best statistical season ever - there's no "voter fatigue" for feats like that

[Jaqua92]

Jokic 19/8/11 early in the 3rd on 93%ts

This dude is the best offensive player ever.

[AleksandarN]

30pts 11rebs 14ast. I mean who is playing better than him ? Nuggets now 6 and 3

[BigGargamel]

Jokic has become so dominant that the only reason anyone has for any other player for MVP right now is "voter fatigue". That's literally the only argument you can make for anyone else these days.

If it was even close, you could chalk up this "voter fatigue" nonsense, but imagine realistically voting for anyone other than Jokic. A voter with any self dignity would be ashamed of themselves.

[famicommander]

30/11/14/2/0 on 11/13 FG, 1/1 3PT, 7/7 FT for Joker.

5 turnovers, but we'll live with those.

[Jaqua92]

30/11/14 on 13 shots

And no one is impressed.

Folks. Those aren't normal stats. We're just desensitized

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

[DCasey91]

Aimbot activated. I have a strong feeling this is the year Jokic goes full scorched earth and unleashes everything.

I mean just out of frustration can bring out the absolute best in top players

When your at the zoo theres warning signs or when your told to not poke the bear

Big Honey is awake and grumpy.

[HotRocks34]

Two things for Jokic:

* The team is playing fast, so he gets even more possessions

* He's now playing with a great passer in Russ so he'll get even better looks

[AleksandarN]

That Jokic is always being portrayed as having a weak team may be a symptom of a deeper structural issue and that issue may well be that Jokic plays the center position. You ask could Tatum carry a team with Murray and MPJ to a great record? I'm thinking why not? The advantage Tatum would have is that without Jokic the center position opens up to a more natural defensive fit. The problem with Jokic being capable of doing everything is that he ends up doing everything.

is this some kind of joke ?

if not, it is showing one of the greatest ignorance of basketball knowledge.

Especially giving all Front Office faults to Jokic may be symptom of most idiotic basketball argument of all time.

Tatum play with two all defensive caliber defender, potentially 4 all star level player. By the way Jokic best teammate is Murray, at best is average guard in this league. After seeing Jokic with Westbrook I'm in very doubt Murray can be a starter in any non Jokic team.

And Celtics won just 7 more games than Denver. Exchange Jokic with Tatum + defensive center gives 64 w to Denver ? It is more than absurt.

Jokic is doing everything ???? Are you sure ???

This dude's usage rate is 29 ?? Only superstars in modern era with that type of usage rate are Bird and Duncan. Jokic is probably best ever player to involve his teammates to the game. Jokic average touch time is 2,6. There is 191 players ahead of him.

If your argument is Jokic doing everything, is totatlly nonsense. Because Tatum hold the ball longer than Jokic.

With Tatum + defensive center makes Denver barely a play-in team, actually in the west I doubt it. they cant be a play-in team

If all Jokic needs is more defensively oriented teammates like the ones Tatum had then the opportunity was there for the Nuggets to snatch Marcus Smart and Robert Williams when they became available and let go of Murray and Porter Jr.. Do you think that would have improved the Nuggets? If so then you have a road map for the future.

There was a comment earlier that Jokic was the most consistent player the last few years. Actually that designation should probably go to Jayson Tatum who has made the playoffs every year of his career so far from his rookie year onward and the conference finals or better 5 out of 7 of those times. I could see a team of Tatum and prime Al Horford or even Robert Williams making the playoffs. You think that's absurd?

You are equating usage with function. They are not the same.

You’re pretty quiet tonight. What happened?

[_NoMas]

That Jokic is always being portrayed as having a weak team may be a symptom of a deeper structural issue and that issue may well be that Jokic plays the center position. You ask could Tatum carry a team with Murray and MPJ to a great record? I'm thinking why not? The advantage Tatum would have is that without Jokic the center position opens up to a more natural defensive fit. The problem with Jokic being capable of doing everything is that he ends up doing everything.

is this some kind of joke ?

if not, it is showing one of the greatest ignorance of basketball knowledge.

Especially giving all Front Office faults to Jokic may be symptom of most idiotic basketball argument of all time.

Tatum play with two all defensive caliber defender, potentially 4 all star level player. By the way Jokic best teammate is Murray, at best is average guard in this league. After seeing Jokic with Westbrook I'm in very doubt Murray can be a starter in any non Jokic team.

And Celtics won just 7 more games than Denver. Exchange Jokic with Tatum + defensive center gives 64 w to Denver ? It is more than absurt.

Jokic is doing everything ???? Are you sure ???

This dude's usage rate is 29 ?? Only superstars in modern era with that type of usage rate are Bird and Duncan. Jokic is probably best ever player to involve his teammates to the game. Jokic average touch time is 2,6. There is 191 players ahead of him.

If your argument is Jokic doing everything, is totatlly nonsense. Because Tatum hold the ball longer than Jokic.

With Tatum + defensive center makes Denver barely a play-in team, actually in the west I doubt it. they cant be a play-in team

If all Jokic needs is more defensively oriented teammates like the ones Tatum had then the opportunity was there for the Nuggets to snatch Marcus Smart and Robert Williams when they became available and let go of Murray and Porter Jr.. Do you think that would have improved the Nuggets? If so then you have a road map for the future.

There was a comment earlier that Jokic was the most consistent player the last few years. Actually that designation should probably go to Jayson Tatum who has made the playoffs every year of his career so far from his rookie year onward and the conference finals or better 5 out of 7 of those times. I could see a team of Tatum and prime Al Horford or even Robert Williams making the playoffs. You think that's absurd?

You are equating usage with function. They are not the same.

Jokic would make the playoffs every year in the east with 4 RealGM posters and him alone

[Sgt Major]

Am I really reading that Tatum is more consistent than Jokic? Like, is that what the letters and words are saying here?

[RB34]

This dude is **** insane

[Exp0sed]

30/11/14 on 13 shots

And no one is impressed.

Folks. Those aren't normal stats. We're just desensitized

well, to be fair he's getting a ton of touches. league leading number of touches and most in the last decade amount of touches. that helps

[Whateva]

Who should be MVP ? Jokic.
Who will win the MVP ? Probably SGA

[Infinite Llamas]

Am I really reading that Tatum is more consistent than Jokic? Like, is that what the letters and words are saying here?

I’ve seen every game of Tatums career. He’s had Ainge and Stevens as GMs. He’s had Stevens, Udoka and Mazzula as coaches. He’s played alongside Jaylen Brown, Horford, Kyrie, Holiday, Derrick White, Kristaps…

Tatum has been a steadying force for these Celtics teams in the last 7-8 years but he plays in a much worse conference and has had waaaaaay more help with coaching and the front office.

Make no mistake. Tatum is the star, but Boston at its heart is a sum of its parts team. Guys like Holiday and White do so many things that hardly get noticed because they don’t score 25 a night.

Tatum is great but Jokic is easily a couple of tiers above him. Easily.