PG Knicks - Unserious

[-Jragon-]

I got bashed for my Doc takes all summer but this is the fallout of Doc believing he came into a championship veteran team where the players already know how to play and what to do and he can be "hands off" and just deal with the media/officials to help the guys out.

He was right of the 1st 2 but wrong in that our players know what to do already... we're old but without the basketball IQ. We got through once because the teams we played didnt know what to do with Giannis and "Let it Fly" .. well now every team is letting it fly and they all know how to frustrate Giannis. Whoever our coach was going to be had to have some new idea that Bud didn't think of yet... or now that Dame is aboard, come up with some new wrinkle of a triangle / pick and roll that confuses teams enough to get us through 1 more time.. obviously they need 3 and D guys around that excel at that role -- noone is so far. And it's possible that Doc is past the stage of designing new creative ideas and schemes and we just picked wrong again or he doesn't have the energy to teach anymore -- which might make his old Lob City plays work.

[JayMKE]

Giannis just has to be reasonable about what rebuild/reload will look like(meaning we’re going to have to move on from his friends) and be in it for long haul. Need recommitment to defense.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I just think a guy who is injured a lot at the end of the season, can't hit 3s, and can't hit free throws is hard to build around in today's NBA. I don't care what stat lines he puts up. Banging into 3 and 4 defenders every game all season takes a toll and once Giannis' athleticism is gone what do you have?

For example would you trade Giannis to the Pelicans for Ingram, Jones, Yves, all our draft picks back, and some of the Pels? Don't you think you could rebuild faster getting rid of Giannis for a huge haul then trying to make moves with Giannis being stuck at the 2nd apron? Is this a Herschel Walker type trade situation?

On one hand, anytime you trade a superstar you never come out ahead. Even though at the time you rationalize it like you did in the first paragraph above.

On the other hand, if Giannis wanted it, could be time to sell high. I just don’t particularly like the players you note above coming back. I want a Chet caliber player and picks.

If you are OKC would you trade Chet for Giannis?

i wouldnt if i was them. id offer 10 picks and anybody but shai and chet.

thats the offer theyd make imo. i dont even think theyd even entertain chet or shai

[drone3]

Trade Dame to Pels for our draft picks back and tank

[aboveAverage]

Never trade Giannis. Giannis is THE FRANCHISE. He’s the GOAT Milwaukee Buck. He rescued this irrelevant franchise and kept us in Milwaukee. He brought us our first title in 50 years. He gives it all for Milwaukee. Giannis is NOT the problem.

I would never forgive any GM for trading Giannis unless he demanded out for months and completely started mailing it in. Do whatever you can to keep Giannis happy.

[blazza18]

Keeping Giannis happy has gotten us into the situation we are now in. If he wants to get through this and stay a Milwaukee Buck he needs a bit of a wake up call both on and off the court. How that happens I don't know.

[stillgotgame]

This should be a fireable offense by itself. Most posters who analyzed pre-game could figure it out. They're paid 0 not $40m.

Read on Twitter

This is independent if there's a personnel problem. Horst should go too. But this change is obvious. I'm in the rooting for l's phase.

Can you imagine the outrage on this board if Coach Griff did this?
I thought we had a veteran coaching staff, most experienced in the league. None of these morons could see what a mismatch Brook was on KAT?

Doc is a joke. Fire him into the sun.

[JayMKE]

We're getting to the point there isn't much potential downside to attempting to reload, this doesn't even look like a playoff team right now so it's hard to imagine worse.

[Coach Carter]

Giannis is a generational talent that has delivered us a chip and most importantly, he's not even 30 yet, so I'm not entertaining the idea of trading him. As good as he is though, he is an absolute moron when it comes to staff and player recruitment and in the current NBA, where players have way too much power, It's a recipe for disaster. For a long time now, someone has had to sit him down and tell him to shut the f*** up and focus on his own job. Our prepubescent looking GM clearly doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. For this alone, Horst needs to leave and I haven't even gotten into his terrible trading and poor drafting.

[ReasonablySober]

Giannis is a generational talent that has delivered us a chip and most importantly, he's not even 30 yet, so I'm not entertaining the idea of trading him. As good as he is though, he is an absolute moron when it comes to staff and player recruitment and in the current NBA, where players have way too much power, It's a recipe for disaster. For a long time now, someone has had to sit him down and tell him to shut the f*** up and focus on his own job. Our prepubescent looking GM clearly doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. For this alone, Horst needs to leave and I haven't even gotten into his terrible trading and poor drafting.

The problem is Doc is the person you're describing to come in and have the authority Giannis respects, and Doc is **** awful.

[drone3]

In retrospect although Jrue was my favourite Buck I would have been fine with them trading him for some younger upcoming talent like for Baret and IQ. Trading Jrue plus picks for Dame was the wrong direction... We are stuck in no man's land.

If we are keeping Giannis they need to shed the old guys and build on the fly. Trade all of Dame, Brook, Bobby, Midds, Pat

[PG Graveyard]

OKC absolutely would not have done that trade at the time.

You weren’t around here then. We can find the correct timeline but this was well before Harden became anything, Ibaka was a good role player and you still needed a center to win. Bogut was finally starting to round into a defensive monster.

And remember that in March of 2012, the Warriors were willing to give up Steph for an injured Bogut with a foot injury and post Amare elbow.

You are wrong. I absolutely was around then under a different name. Neither of those trade fantasy’s were real. I was pretty adamant those were bogus then as well. There is no reputable source that says otherwise

[Baddy Chuck]

OKC absolutely would not have done that trade at the time.

You weren’t around here then. We can find the correct timeline but this was well before Harden became anything, Ibaka was a good role player and you still needed a center to win. Bogut was finally starting to round into a defensive monster.

And remember that in March of 2012, the Warriors were willing to give up Steph for an injured Bogut with a foot injury and post Amare elbow.

You are wrong. I absolutely was around then under a different name. Neither of those trade fantasy’s were real. I was pretty adamant those were bogus then as well. There is no reputable source that says otherwise

Of course it wasn't "real" , rumors are true I am not Larry Harris. It was a trade machine trade to gauge interest in breaking down our "FTD!" team by trading the guy who was the focal point of the team and at the time on Dwight's heels as the best center in the league. Plenty of OKC fans liked the concept, plenty of Bucks fans said trading Bogut was a mistake.

[paulpressey25]

Of course it wasn't "real" , rumors are true I am not Larry Harris. It was a trade machine trade to gauge interest in breaking down our "FTD!" team by trading the guy who was the focal point of the team and at the time on Dwight's heels as the best center in the league. Plenty of OKC fans liked the concept, plenty of Bucks fans said trading Bogut was a mistake.

Where did that Ring the Bell guy go anyways.

It was an amazing trade example to show how player trade values can shift fast in a two years window. And I think that’s the dilemma the team faces with both Dame and Giannis (if he wants out). Portland sold high on Dame. His value has already depreciated somewhat now with us. With Giannis, he’ll always have massive value, but the next two years will be interesting.

[Baddy Chuck]

Don't know where I am now on the blow it up scale. Leaning towards it unfortunately. Thought going into the offseason some fairly major changes had to happen around the core and that obviously didn't happen. Think this offseason with Brook, Bobby, Pat, 1st, early second you had some tools to work with to reshape this roster around the core. Now teams are licking their lips at Brook and Bobby for cheap(er) and our picks may as well have depreciated to zero value. Don't fault our offseason vet signings but they're not providing anything either. Like a Pat/1st package had maybe some value in the offseason, now a Pat/AJJ package has none/negative. Marjon's a dude we're praying a team will take to open up a roster spot for some scrap heap G-Leaguer. Bobby and Brook I think were guys that the right team would covet and possibly be able to part with picks that could be rerouted, now we're hoping shuffling deck chairs of unwanteds strikes the right cord. This offseason was a disaster to me. And Khris Middleton becoming Kawhi isn't helping that.

[drone3]

If we completely blow it up we need to poach one of Prestis disciples that can smell latent talent

[tonyreyes123]

Giannis just has to be reasonable about what rebuild/reload will look like(meaning we’re going to have to move on from his friends) and be in it for long haul. Need recommitment to defense.

Giannis isnt doin that he’ll just leave

[RiotPunch]

Giannis just has to be reasonable about what rebuild/reload will look like(meaning we’re going to have to move on from his friends) and be in it for long haul. Need recommitment to defense.

Giannis isnt doin that he’ll just leave

He can't just leave though.

[theFireBlanket]

Tyler Smith breakout game. Don't check his per 36.

[Coach Carter]

Giannis is a generational talent that has delivered us a chip and most importantly, he's not even 30 yet, so I'm not entertaining the idea of trading him. As good as he is though, he is an absolute moron when it comes to staff and player recruitment and in the current NBA, where players have way too much power, It's a recipe for disaster. For a long time now, someone has had to sit him down and tell him to shut the f*** up and focus on his own job. Our prepubescent looking GM clearly doesn't have the balls to stand up to him. For this alone, Horst needs to leave and I haven't even gotten into his terrible trading and poor drafting.

The problem is Doc is the person you're describing to come in and have the authority Giannis respects, and Doc is **** awful.

Coaching wise yes but it's not the coaches job to recruit players, that falls on the GM along with staff hire, both in which Giannis has had a big say in and this is where the GM needs to tell him to stay in his lane.