PG Celtics - Bucks Fade

[Gant]

I don’t see how you can compare Jrue and Dame when Jrue gets to sit in the corner all game and make simple reads when the defense is in rotation.

I don't see how you can avoid comparing Jrue and Dame. Jrue had the exact same am-I-a-PG-or-a-2 role Dame is coping with; production by both nosedived 'inexplicably'. Now Dame can score 33 on the regular and Jrue can drop 15 every single game and the Celtics still win. Compare the two, please: the Bucks can choose to move the ball, they have that power.

Jrue could sit out the entire season and the Celtics still win 60+ games

This year: Jrue on +10/100, Jrue off +12/100

Last year: Jrue on +10/100, Jrue off +15/100

They're just an insanely good team

Those types of stats happen for all the Celtics' top guys; they play well missing anyone. Still, Holiday makes it all fit together for them in a way Marcus Smart never quite did.

His superpower aside from the obvious defense, is being so willing to NOT be the man most of the time. He fills in however needed which is perfect for a team with many options.

[BucksFanSD]

Ryan Rollins leads the Bucks with +30 on the floor.

Ryan Rollins led the Wizards last year with +54 on the floor.

[drone3]

Ryan Rollins leads the Bucks with +30 on the floor.

Ryan Rollins led the Wizards last year with +54 on the floor.

Rollins is a keeper, didn't realise he was so athletic. Did they say 6"10 wingspan?

[ReasonablySober]

Ryan Rollins leads the Bucks with +30 on the floor.

Ryan Rollins led the Wizards last year with +54 on the floor.

Rollins has a +1.8 net rating this season. That's 6th on the Bucks behind Lillard, Brook, AJ Johnson, Prince, and Giannis.

[ejn1214]

Too bad we cant do a golden state reset where you just sit your best players for a year and end up at the top of the draft. Just trade everyone for draft picks and any young player with a pulse to throw in the game.

[slappyg]

I'm in the minority but I was encouraged by the play of the young guys, especially Rollins and Green. I had thought we were too old and done with no young talent at all. Have Dame play average instead of terrible and we win.

[MickeyDavis]

I'm in the minority but I was encouraged by the play of the young guys, especially Rollins and Green. I had thought we were too old and done with no young talent at all. Have Dame play average instead of terrible and we win.

I don't think you're in the minority. Rollins, AJax and especially Green have stepped up when given the opportunity. Trent and Wright got benched (Trent has an "injury"). Pat is playing the fewest MPG in his 7 seasons here. So I guess that's the silver lining here. We're getting to see 3 young guys play meaningful minutes.

[BucksFanSD]

I'm in the minority but I was encouraged by the play of the young guys, especially Rollins and Green. I had thought we were too old and done with no young talent at all. Have Dame play average instead of terrible and we win.

Yeah I'm with you. This wasn't all that bad at all.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

Dame is a box score guy. Gives nothing outside of it. Jrue is the opposite. Dame’s impact on winning is low if he is not scoring. Guy is a better Monta Ellis.

[FrieAaron]

Bad time for Dame to have another bad game but not my biggest concern. Without the two absolutely boneheaded delay of games it's a very different situation down the stretch and the young guys hustled but the way our vets ball-watch continues to be baffling? If you can't get up for Boston when you're 2-7 something is wrong. Think we still have the talent to be back in the playoff race pretty easily right now but the next 5 will tell a lot. Our hard stretch is over. Anything less than 3-2 is a disaster.

[theFireBlanket]

The Jrue love is hilarious after everyone wanted him gone after Jimmy torched him in the playoffs.

His shooting was also abysmal every playoff run. I didn't necessarily want him gone but for Dame it seemed
like a potentially good trade off. Provided the 2 guard took Jrue's role.

Firing Budenholzer, was the more costly move. His genius would've made for a smooth transition & worked Dame into the team concept way better, than either of the Griff/Doc.

[emunney]

We don't want to say it but Horst's real cardinal sin was trading everything that wasn't nailed down for Jrue. Every other mistake is trivial in comparison. The irony is that it's the mistake that won us a championship.

[emunney]

I wish one of Green, Dre, or Rollins was a lanky forward.

[Indomitable]

There is a very inappropriate Bobby Knight quote that sort of sums up my mental state regarding the team.

Let it burn down. And do a hard reset the right way.

No, just move Dame. The rest can be rebuilt with just a Dame trade.

Who wants a 35 year old guy making 45 million

[soxperry]

what a weird circumstance. the coach who has a rap for never playing young guys is playing almost every young guy he has over proven vets. we really missed Khris in this one. when Giannis is out of gas from a gigantic first half and Dame just doesn't have it, Khris can step in and hit some mid range shots, direct traffic, and get Brook easy paint looks. very ugly offense down the stretch.

thankfully, we have a pretty long stretch of bad teams coming up so that we can work some of this stuff out. no idea how i feel about these guys at the moment. all i know is that Giannis is amazing.

[ShootingtheJ]

There is a very inappropriate Bobby Knight quote that sort of sums up my mental state regarding the team.

Let it burn down. And do a hard reset the right way.

No, just move Dame. The rest can be rebuilt with just a Dame trade.

Who wants a 35 year old guy making 45 million

Harden keeps finding takers, we'll be able to cash in.

[BUCKnation]

I wish one of Green, Dre, or Rollins was a lanky forward.

Someone like Queta would be real nice. Robert Williams would probably break in half on our roster, but if him for Bobby is realistic, that would be a great target.

[BUCKnation]

Also, I know Brook is another year older, but I don't think that should be the cause of his precipitous drop in shooting this year. Not like he relies on step backs or something.

Getting basically nothing from normally good shooters in him, Bobby and Trent is exacerbating our offensive woes. At least, Dairy Bird is cooking.

Including Pat, 4 of our main 3 pt shooters are shooting 25%.

[rilamann]

as bad as dame looked, I'm not sure jrue makes us materially better as #2. Just extremely disappointing we got someone like Dame and he immediately becomes cooked.

Bucks would be better if you swapped Dame for Jrue. I don't know if the Bucks would necessarily be contenders with Jrue, but they would be a top # 5 seed. Maybe the #5 seed, but they would be top #5 IMO. And currently wouldn't sit at 2-9 or whatever their record is now lol.

For the record, I don't think the Bucks would be contenders with Jrue right now.

It's just ironic to me that Jrue is an underrated winner and is 110% pure class as a human being. Dame on the other hand is easily one of the most overrated players in NBA history and they were traded for each other. I just think that is ironic and I would think it was hilarious if I wasn't a Bucks fan. And for the record on that, I thought Dame was pretty overrated long before he was a Buck.

Dame has nights where he looks good when he hits a bunch of 3's and the logo 3's make for really cool highlights. But I just don't think he's a winning player over the course of an 8 month NBA season. I used to always get into heated debates with a friend of mine over this around 2018, 2019 when Dame was really hyped up. He loves Dame and I would tell him pretty much what I just said about Dame in this post. Great individual offensive talent, the logo 3's look really cool. But not a winning player.

And I don't think Dame magically became cooked or washed during his plane flight from Portland to Milwaukee.

Dame has looked like he wants absolutely no part of being in Milwaukee from the moment he got here.

And if you have watched basketball for 30+ years, you can tell Dame is not cooked. His head and heart isn't in it. He doesn't want to be in Milwaukee, he never did.

Think about it, a month before we traded for Dame, Dame and his agent literally got a memo from the league warning them that they were about to get fined for trying to force their way to Miami. Then he ends up in Milwaukee. He's not cooked, he is disgruntled because he's in Milwaukee and not Miami.

Overall, the last 5 years has been a fun ride as Bucks fans and now with Lillard on board, the best might be yet to come.

I was a bit onery last season I admit. But to be fair, someone is going to read my posts on here from the 2022'23 season 30 years from now while knowing the final of that season and be like, How did that rilamann guy know that was going to happen.

Now that Bud is gone and Lillard is a member of the Bucks, I highly doubt I will be using the term ''frauds'' to describe this year's version of the Bucks.

I think part of the Buck's problem last season was things got a bit stale and also they got a bit too comfortable and a bit complacent.

Lillard is starving for a championship, so I don't think complacency will be an issue anymore. Lillard's hunger for a title I think will fuel Giannis and give him kind of a refreshed drive and motivation.

On the court is huge, but I think the Bucks also needed this type of trade for those reasons as well.

I can't wait to say.

Dame from the F in Forum!!!

Damn, that's all we gave up?

I was kind meh on getting Lillard just because I thought we would have to give up half the team for him. This is pretty incredible.

Being a Bucks fan has been fun the last 5 years or so...lol

If I had the choice of trading Jrue or Khris for Dame, I would actually rather keep Khris.

Jrue might be the better player over Khris at this point in their careers, but I think that with Giannis and Dame, Khris is the better fit. Plus we've been wanting to Khris as the #3 guy for a long time now.

We lose the defense with Jrue, but Dame will be able to be aggressive and gamble on the perimeter with Giannis and Brook waiting down low.

High praise in the trade thread for a player you have been arguing is overrated since 2018. And odd the most underrated player in the league you preferred to trade for the most overrated player, and you wanted to keep Khris.

I'm pretty sure you were also posting like a kid during Christmas saying things like, you can't even ask for anything more, now that Dame is in Milwaukee.

These or similar posts of mine were already quoted a couple times last season. Yes, I am aware these posts of mine still exist on Realgm and I have done this exercise a few times already. So this isn't quite the Gotcha you were hoping for.

Since you took time out of your day to track down and quote my posts. I'll do the exercise one more time out of courtesy.

I always thought Dame was overrated, but that doesn't mean that I thought he was trash. I've said it a few times even over just the past few days that Dame is an elite individual offensive talent. Just not a winning player. At the time of the trade I thought that maybe a fresh start for Dame and pairing Dame alongside Giannis would be a good move for the Bucks. As did pretty much everyone.

That ended up not being the case, mainly for two reasons.

1. Dame and Giannis are a horrible fit. In hindsight I should have known this. It goes to show when last season the Bucks passed the eye test and seemed to play their best basketball when one of Dame or Giannis were out. Particularly when Dame was in and Giannis was out oddly enough.

2. I didn't think Dame would be this disgruntled to be in Milwaukee. I knew Dame and his agent were hell bent on going to Miami to the point that the league was threatening to fine them. So when Dame ended up in Milwaukee instead of Miami, I was a bit nervous. But I didn't think Dame would be quite this disgruntled. Or maybe Dame is just actually more overrated than I realized.

As for my takes on Jrue.

I love Jrue, I have purcahsed 1 NBA jersey in the past 30 years and it was a Jrue Holiday jersey. Admittedly, I was a bit in my emotions during the 2023 off-season over Jrue getting cooked by Jimmy in the 2023 playoffs. I still loved Jrue, but I thought it was time to move him. I was wrong, or at least I was wrong about moving him for Dame.

I also admit, I didn't realize how special Jrue was until after he was gone. Same with coach Bud.

I am not an NBA GM making a 7 figure annual salary to make these decisions, I am just a fan who gets things wrong sometimes, just like everyone else.

[blazza18]

Dame had so many bad misses today. Wonder if he's simply not an early game kinda person.

Our next stretch of games are pretty crucial. There is a way back to some normalcy but I just don't know if we've got it in us this year.