Political Roundtable Part XXXIII

[Zonkerbl]

Hm ok latest vote tallies are 78 million trump, 76 million Harris. Record setting turnout that favored Trump. Not that Dems failed to turn out. Listless, exhausted old frail Trump somehow managed to scrounge up 8 million more votes.

[doclinkin]

I don’t actually believe it. Like 100% chance Trump cheated in many ways. Losing boxes of votes. Stealing ballots from the post. Hacking machines. The bomb threats and voter suppression. But I said all along the only way Harris could win is in a blowout. If it was close at all they’d find a way to steal it.

[Benjammin]

I don’t actually believe it. Like 100% chance Trump cheated in many ways. Losing boxes of votes. Stealing ballots from the post. Hacking machines. The bomb threats and voter suppression. But I said all along the only way Harris could win is in a blowout. If it was close at all they’d find a way to steal it.

What size tinfoil hat do you wear Doc? I can send you one for Christmas.

[doclinkin]

I don’t actually believe it. Like 100% chance Trump cheated in many ways. Losing boxes of votes. Stealing ballots from the post. Hacking machines. The bomb threats and voter suppression. But I said all along the only way Harris could win is in a blowout. If it was close at all they’d find a way to steal it.

What size tinfoil hat do you wear Doc? I can send you one for Christmas.

Anyone would be naive to think they would never TRY to rig the election in their favor. It’s standard procedure for the Kremlin.

Motive. Means. Opportunity. Also the Trump habit of projection.

Motive is obvious. Jail. But more than that the billions in profit Trump stands to make by offering public positions to the highest bidder. Selling policy to lobbyists. Asset stripping of the US Government. Selling intelligence. Watch.

Trumps SOP is to blame others of malfeasance then assume since they’re probably doing it he should do it first or better. The GOP spent little $ or effort in any grassroots efforts to turn out the vote. Literally Claiming they don’t need your votes. They stripmined the RNC for cash. Installing an incompetent family member to oversee the ground game. You’d call it overconfidence except it worked. They didn’t need it.


Means & Opportunity.

Do you think it is impossible to hack a voting machine ? Kids did it in 7 minutes at the electronic security conference DefCon in 2018.

https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/22/us-elections-hacking-voting-machines-def-con

You think they plugged every hole? Or that millions of dollars poured into Russian hacking farms couldn’t outpace American security efforts? Was there no reason why republicans spent $ and effort to pack election boards with MAGA diehards? If they could do it, you think they wouldn’t?

Research any article on voting security. All experts say it’s doable. You just need physical acccess.

There’s a reason why exit polls consistently fail to match the final count. Why pollsters and analysts are constantly startled. The data does not match.

Consider that for the first time ever Justice Dept monitors were refused access to monitor vote counts etc in GOP states:

https://www.wdhn.com/news/some-republican-led-states-refuse-to-let-justice-department-monitors-into-polling-places/amp/

Various Non credible bomb threats out of Russia closed polling places.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/fake-bomb-threats-linked-russia-briefly-close-georgia-polling-locations-2024-11-05/

Local GOP appointed judges refused requests to keep polling places open late to compensate for these or technical issues.

It’s pretty simple war gaming strategy. Putin has publicly stated he thinks of Democracy as a weapon of mass destruction. We know his tight ties with Trump. He stands to benefit mightily by having his useful idiot reinstalled. Why wouldn’t he put in the work to ensure the scales were weighted?

Do you honestly think no efforts were spent by foreign actors to affect the outcome? And given that a non significant portion of the country wanted the same results, that no one on the GOP side would accept their assurance.

Let alone tech billionaires Elon Musk.

Or do you think Musk is too principled and would abide by the rules in the name of honor and a fair and free election. Not push for homegrown hackers to nudge the results.

Or maybe you think our counter ops are just too skilled to be beat.

That’s a lot of faith in the system. All they need to do is make it plausibly close in the polls. Even when they have to substitute Betting sites as evidence that the polls are close. And do a decent enough job to cover their tracks.

Then when the results come out in their favor. They can rely on the Dems’ rhetoric about doing the honorable thing and accepting the results of the people’s will. Etc.

I fully expect in 10 years or so when AI has rendered electronic privacy a thing of the past that we will hear about all the digital knifefights and chicanery that was going on in this election.

But then it won’t matter. Can’t change the past. And Trump will have choked on a cheeseburger or succumbed to brain decay by then.

[closg00]

Although there is no evidence of fraud yet, the fact is that Republicans play a dirty game when it comes to elections, I don’t believe Trump and the people around him would just leave things to chance on this election outcome. However it just appears that Harris simply underperformed, the popular vote gap has narrowed to a 3.5M gap as-of today.

[Zonkerbl]

I mean, even if they did, not millions of votes worth.

[Benjammin]

Something for the Democratic Party to consider: “They had learned nothing and forgotten nothing.” – Often attributed to Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand

The only thing the Democrats have going for them right now would be Trump and the Republicans governing horribly the next two years, which is incredibly likely. Hopefully they don't f things up too badly before the next-midterm elections and the Democrats can at least regain the House

[closg00]

I do love the GOP takeover partly because they now own it all now, they have to govern, can’t wait to see their budgets and legislation. The Senate will probably kill the filibuster rule almost immediately to grease the wheels.

[doclinkin]

I mean, even if they did, not millions of votes worth.

Cheat big or go home. The only way to insulate against a recount would be if it looked like a legit landslide in favor of Trump. Otherwise you have forensic analysis of every hanging chad and half filled bubble. If you’re going to cheat at all you have to crush all doubts.

These are not subtle people. If Trump had any input you think he wouldn’t want to look like he raked in the votes with both hands? These are people who sanction violent insurrection. You think they wouldn’t just stonewall and deny if caught? They’d claim exactly this: other people are lying. Paranoid. Trying to steal Trumps rightful votes.

I’m not arguing that Kamala was a strong candidate. Or that half our country is not racist and bassackward, or at least programmed to be. And that we need to hit harder on the core values and stop getting cornered on niche issues.

But I am saying 100% chance Trump cheated and cheated large. And that it was a lot closer than this. Like Kamala by a squeaker.

They had years to prepare for this. They weren’t just going to rely on Joe Sixpack to show up to the polls en masse. And now that they are embedded like ticks you better believe they’re making sure ‘you won’t have to vote again’. Like every landslide victory Putin ever won.

[TGW]

Doc...turn off Rachel Maddow dude. You sound unhinged.

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah the numbers you're talking are voter suppression numbers, not voter fraud. You're allowed to suppress voters. You shouldn't but you can. But I think what actually happened this election is Republicans got wise about early voting and encouraged their supporters to go vote early and it worked really well. That's the opposite of voter suppression, much easier and less legal issues. Republicans do everything better than Democrats. They're better at this. I hate it but it's the truth.

[doclinkin]

Doc...turn off Rachel Maddow dude. You sound unhinged.

Never watched her. Unless it was posted here. And this country elected a convicted felon. Who fomented sedition and insurrection. And stole state secrets because he thinks he can declassify them with his mind.

A) if you’re not unhinged you’re not paying attention. B) you think this is unhinged, watch the country in the next few years. C) I’m a Wizards fan. None of us in here has all the screws unloose.

[Zonkerbl]

And based off the way white women voted, I think Trump correctly expressed, in his annoyingly simplistic, 4th grade way, that Roe v Wade was more permissive than white women wanted. I mean, he said "everyone" wanted Roe v Wade to be overturned but what he meant was white women. Precisely because white women are wealthier and so relatively mild restrictions on abortion don't affect them very much, so they want abortion access to be at least restrictive enough that you can't easily use it as a contraceptive strategy, like they did in the Soviet Union.

So yeah it's true that the large majority of people and women and white women prefer less restrictive rules than the Republicans want, but they didn't want it as free as Roe v Wade allowed it either. So Trump gets away with "I gave you what you wanted, freedom to choose the level of abortion restrictions you want" (we'll see if that's true, seems to be what has been happening at the state level)

I'm also really hoping that the Nazi adjacent "Immigrants are poisoning our blood" and "let's deport 25 million people" is kayfabe because that is a super dark path to go down in reality. That is going to result in a 21st century holocaust and if that is the Republicans' actual intention there is literally no way to stop them now. I hope the smug condescending Republicans who scolded me for telling them they are evil are correct, even though they are also obviously ignorant as hell. I did all I could do - I pointed out that voting for Trump is evil. The holocaust that comes now is 100% Trump voters' fault and I hope with all my heart that it's a "joke." Given this nation's history I doubt it, but all we can do now is hope.

[montestewart]

Doc...turn off Rachel Maddow dude. You sound unhinged.

Maybe he is, but I don’t get my news from such sources, I just base it on how obviously ruthless and untrustworthy Trump and his inner circle and loyalists are.

Doesn’t alter Dems needing new message but I’ll never trust a party that made so many unsupported allegations of massive voter fraud to be honest about an election in any way. The actual killer sets up an innocent to take the fall, life imitates art.

Perhaps it’s not naïveté but just resignation.

[doclinkin]

Yeah the numbers you're talking are voter suppression numbers, not voter fraud. You're allowed to suppress voters. You shouldn't but you can. But I think what actually happened this election is Republicans got wise about early voting and encouraged their supporters to go vote early and it worked really well. That's the opposite of voter suppression, much easier and less legal issues. Republicans do everything better than Democrats. They're better at this. I hate it but it's the truth.

Doubt it. Sure. Polling places closing early etc. Moving ballot boxes across town. All that is voter suppression. Marginal numbers. And as you say, legal. Giving plausible cover.

Reports about early voting had Dems showing up strong. Early counts had the analysts convinced. No crush of GOP voters. No long lines and enthusiasm on the MAGA side. Steady leads for Dems.

And as usual the numbers did not match the analysis. At some point it’s reasonable to say hell, there’s a pattern.

Ask yourself If Trump could cheat and be guaranteed a win. Would he?

Who says no.

Now convince me it’s not possible.

If you had a billionaire funding you.

https://fortune.com/2024/10/26/elon-musk-political-donations-132-million-donald-trump-republican-races/

And a rogue state with a robust dark ops computer espionage program that continually is trying to exploit US vulnerabilities.

https://apnews.com/article/microsoft-russia-china-iran-israel-cyberespionage-cyber-d3a22dd2dcea32615ac15ed4fb951541

Unless somehow you believe they wanted to interfere but couldn’t. Were unable to. Were blocked in every effort. The richest man in the world and the most ruthless and powerful dictator. Were blocked in their aims because US Government tech wizards are too good at their jobs.

[doclinkin]

Doesn’t have to even be a widely promoted campaign. Just a sufficiently skilled blackhat programmer with something to prove and the expectation of reward from a guy whose worth is now one third of a trillion dollars.


“Email to Elon Musk: Hey buddy I like your style. Just a note here. Let’s say I found an exploit that lets me backdoor into voting machines and tweak the numbers a little. Would that be worth anything to you. As evidence of my resume, tomorrow I will freeze the clock on every computer in your office at 11:11 for 3 minutes. If you like my results my bitcoin account is…”.

[Pointgod]

The average voter ladies and gentlemen

Read on Twitter

[Zonkerbl]

I mean, they just did a hell of a lot of research to find out how to cheat. I'm absolutely sure they cheated, or tried to. But they're idiots - they would brag about it.

[montestewart]

I mean, they just did a hell of a lot of research to find out how to cheat. I'm absolutely sure they cheated, or tried to. But they're idiots - they would brag about it.

Still plenty of time for that

[Zonkerbl]

They would be like "it was totally legal"

No, I think we'd know about it already.

I think they researched it and found out they'd almost certainly get caught and go to jail. Trump's judges made that very clear to them, I think.