Official RJ Barrett Thread

[Thaddy]

Lol I don’t understand why people feel the need to put players down. I mean everyone here loves Scottie and I’m sure everyone thinks Scottie is the better prospect. But if somehow RJ ended up being the better player why is that a bad thing? Why do people feel the need to find something to complain about. lol I mean this guy is litterally looking for anything to complain about if he’s bringing up RJ only being +5. He didn’t even bother to look up Scottie’s stats before saying that lol he must’ve though Scottie was +30 on the season or something.

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

Just because you repeat the same things over and over again doesn’t make it true. Kinda like what you said in that dumb thread you made about bouche. Wrong then probably wrong now!

What's wrong with what I said? Is he a good defender that shoots great off the dribble?

[youngRAPZ]

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

Just because you repeat the same things over and over again doesn’t make it true. Kinda like what you said in that dumb thread you made about bouche. Wrong then probably wrong now!

What's wrong with what I said? Is he a good defender that shoots great off the dribble?

The part where you used your crystal ball to present a definitive opinionated statement as fact.

[YogurtProducer]

We can use last season, this season isn't enough of a sample size. Barrett has bad defense both on ball and help. He doesn't create deflections or get stocks. Since he isn't stopping anyone he has to be really good on offense. The reality is his pull up jumper is bad. He can't hit mid range shots or off the dribble 3s. He has to play off a primary option to do well.

So below average defender that can't effectively create his own efficient offense. That isn't a championship piece. I think Barrett will eventually lead us to gaining a championship caliber big man. We can't have him, Dick, and IQ together in our starting line up. There's just too many bad defenders.

Between those 3 Barrett is easily going to be the first one to be traded from this team.

Just because you repeat the same things over and over again doesn’t make it true. Kinda like what you said in that dumb thread you made about bouche. Wrong then probably wrong now!

What's wrong with what I said? Is he a good defender that shoots great off the dribble?

Well you ignore that as a Raptor he has averaged 22/6/5 on 60TS%. And he did a LOT of that playing without Scottie and was the defacto #1 option. In fact, he has played more without Scottie than he has with.

Also ignores this year his playmaking has been really, really good. 7.8 assists to 3.2 turnovers (scottie for comparison last year was 6.1 assists to 2.8 turnovers).

Now, his efficiency has tanked a bit but honestly hard to blame a guy when at times last night we had a RJ/Shead/Mogbo/Boucher/Walter lineup out there and he kind of had to try and create everything.

[tsherkin]

Well you ignore that as a Raptor he has averaged 22/6/5 on 60TS%. And he did a LOT of that playing without Scottie and was the defacto #1 option. In fact, he has played more without Scottie than he has with.

He has definitely played more without Scottie than with.

Don't know how hasty we want to be with his specific numbers over the 37 games he's played with us, though. And I'd probably be especially cautious with those assist numbers, as they are heavily based off of two double-digit games.

Now, his efficiency has tanked a bit but honestly hard to blame a guy when at times last night we had a RJ/Shead/Mogbo/Boucher/Walter lineup out there and he kind of had to try and create everything.

That said, the same applies here. That 54% TS is part of the big swing this early in the season. 5/21 FG against Denver took him there from the 58.7% it was prior to that game. So we'll see what shakes out over a longer stretch. The answer is likely somewhere in the middle.

He'll have his ups and downs. Dude isn't going to suddenly turn into a top-10 guy, and that's fine, but it does mean he will surely have his ups and his downs. And that's okay.

I realize you know this, so this is more for the broader conversation.

[Indeed]

Never got a top pick? What are we calling:
#8 Frye
#6 Gallo
#8 Hill
#4 Kristaps
#8 Ntilikina
#9 Knox
#3 RJ
#8 Obi

That is a loooot of top 10 picks to have to come out with like 2 starting caliber guys lol

Compare that to a team like Toronto getting FVV / Siakam / OG / Powell / Poeltl in a 2/3 year span picking no higher than 9th and only picking above 20th once

Poor drafting. lol

EVERYONE knew that Channing Frye had a decent floor but low ceiling.

Can't say they should've drafted Danny Granger but they should've drafted Andrew Bynum.

It started by trading for Eddy Curry. They traded away 2006 1st pick (which was Lamarcus Aldridge) and 2007 1st pick (which was Joakim Noah).

Derozan or Brandon Jennings were the OBVIOUS choices over Jordan Hill. After they drafted Jordan Hill, I thought to myself, the Knicks did it (Channing Frye) again.

Porzingis was a good gamble and that was Phil Jackson's call.

Donovan Mitchell wanted to be a Knick and they should've drafted him instead of Ntilikina. Another obvious draft selection.

I guess their strategy has always been FA.
Still Brunson was the reason, which can't fault their strategy.

[YogurtProducer]

Well you ignore that as a Raptor he has averaged 22/6/5 on 60TS%. And he did a LOT of that playing without Scottie and was the defacto #1 option. In fact, he has played more without Scottie than he has with.

He has definitely played more without Scottie than with.

Don't know how hasty we want to be with his specific numbers over the 37 games he's played with us, though. And I'd probably be especially cautious with those assist numbers, as they are heavily based off of two double-digit games.

Now, his efficiency has tanked a bit but honestly hard to blame a guy when at times last night we had a RJ/Shead/Mogbo/Boucher/Walter lineup out there and he kind of had to try and create everything.

That said, the same applies here. That 54% TS is part of the big swing this early in the season. 5/21 FG against Denver took him there from the 58.7% it was prior to that game. So we'll see what shakes out over a longer stretch. The answer is likely somewhere in the middle.

He'll have his ups and downs. Dude isn't going to suddenly turn into a top-10 guy, and that's fine, but it does mean he will surely have his ups and his downs. And that's okay.

I realize you know this, so this is more for the broader conversation.

His assist #'s are not heavily based off two games. Those are his career 3's with us which is 37 games so 2 games barely affects that. That being said, in 2024 thus far even without the 2 double digit assist games he is averaging nearly 6 assists per game (3, 8, and 6 respectively), and averaging 8 with those two games.

[tsherkin]

His assist #'s are not heavily based off two games. Those are his career 3's with us which is 37 games so 2 games barely affects that. That being said, in 2024 thus far even without the 2 double digit assist games he is averaging nearly 6 assists per game (3, 8, and 6 respectively), and averaging 8 with those two games.

Let me clarify: his APG is presently the product of those two 10+-assist games.

He's averaging 7.8 apg right now. He's a career 3.0 apg guy. In 2 of his last 3 games out of 5 played, he's had 10+ assists.

That's creating this present average. In the other 3 games, he's averaging 5.7 apg.

Volatile sample. Big changes from single games. Looking at specific averages, especially ones which clash heavily with prior performance (even the 4.1 apg and 4.4 AST36 he averaged over 32 games for us last year) is always going to receive some scrutiny...

[YogurtProducer]

His assist #'s are not heavily based off two games. Those are his career 3's with us which is 37 games so 2 games barely affects that. That being said, in 2024 thus far even without the 2 double digit assist games he is averaging nearly 6 assists per game (3, 8, and 6 respectively), and averaging 8 with those two games.

Let me clarify: his APG is presently the product of those two 10+-assist games.

He's averaging 7.8 apg right now. He's a career 3.0 apg guy. In 2 of his last 3 games out of 5 played, he's had 10+ assists.

That's creating this present average. In the other 3 games, he's averaging 5.7 apg.

Volatile sample. Big changes from single games. Looking at specific averages, especially ones which clash heavily with prior performance (even the 4.1 apg and 4.4 AST36 he averaged over 32 games for us last year) is always going to receive some scrutiny...

Okay? And I was referring to his 37 game sample, which is 4.6APG. So if anything, even if we ignore his double digit assist games (for whatever reason), he still is at 5.7APG, which still would be top 25 in the entire NBA.

[tsherkin]

Okay? And I was referring to his 37 game sample, which is 4.6APG. So if anything, even if we ignore his double digit assist games (for whatever reason), he still is at 5.7APG, which still would be top 25 in the entire NBA.

Right, and it's significantly divergent from his whole career. And it's a short sample, with some big games. So the average is likely quite untrustworthy. I thought that bit of my point was fairly straightforward, sorry if it wasn't clear.

[YogurtProducer]

Okay? And I was referring to his 37 game sample, which is 4.6APG. So if anything, even if we ignore his double digit assist games (for whatever reason), he still is at 5.7APG, which still would be top 25 in the entire NBA.

Right, and it's significantly divergent from his whole career. And it's a short sample, with some big games. So the average is likely quite untrustworthy. I thought that bit of my point was fairly straightforward, sorry if it wasn't clear.

I mean he obviously is not a 8APG guy, but his 4.6APG does not seem to crazy to me. Especially since he was a 3.0APG guy in NYK despite playing with Brunson/Randle who demand USG and are not exactly big off-ball guys, and he is only 24.

That being said, when IQ and Scottie are back they're both better playmakers so it will go down, but that is more a matter of circumstance than actual ability.

[tsherkin]

I mean he obviously is not a 8APG guy, but his 4.6APG does not seem to crazy to me.

That seems more possible, yes. We'll see how things go. But we are looking at a career 14.4% AST guy, who was at 19.5% with us last year, who is presently at 37.9% AST adjacent to a large increase in how he is featured. But as you say, a raw average of 4.5 apg or near that isn't out of reach. We'll see how the particulars shake out. I must have misread your original remark, because I thought you were talking about this season's average.

That being said, when IQ and Scottie are back they're both better playmakers so it will go down, but that is more a matter of circumstance than actual ability.

Yes, that will suppress things, certainly.,

[MEDIC]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/11/8/24291103/rj-barrett-toronto-raptors-stats-scoring-assists

Decent article on our guy RJ

[Psubs]

Was just thinking and isn't RJ Barrett essentially Glenn Robinson with a bit more playmaking?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robingl01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html

[MEDIC]

Was just thinking and isn't RJ Barrett essentially Glenn Robinson with a bit more playmaking?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robingl01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html

Not bad. Similar athletes & raw #'s. Robinson had better shooting mechanics & a nice mid range shot though.

RJ is in that tier of.players offenaively though..Glen Robinson, Richard Jefferson, Michael Finley.

Guys that aren't going to be one of your primary ball handlers or primary facilitators, but can be good off the ball complimentary scorers in the half court & good enough athletes to score well in transition.

His attacking game off the dribble reminds me of Stackhouse without the elite hops.

[tsherkin]

Was just thinking and isn't RJ Barrett essentially Glenn Robinson with a bit more playmaking?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robingl01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html

No.

Robinson sucked ass at getting to the rim and wasn't especially good at drawing fouls. He had a post game and an excellent mid-range jumper, plus reliable 3pt range. They play literally nothing alike. Apart from picking a big man, this couldn't be further off.

[Dalek]

Was just thinking and isn't RJ Barrett essentially Glenn Robinson with a bit more playmaking?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robingl01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01.html

No.

Robinson sucked ass at getting to the rim and wasn't especially good at drawing fouls. He had a post game and an excellent mid-range jumper, plus reliable 3pt range. They play literally nothing alike. Apart from picking a big man, this couldn't be further off.

As far as tweener SG/SF with some power game and passing chops, I'd see RJ's closest comp as Joe Johnson. Both use a combo of strength, skill and patience rather than first step to get their buckets.

Age 24 seasons:
Joe Jesus
20/4/6.5; 47/36/79

RJ Barrett
23/6/6; 43/33/70

[tsherkin]

As far as tweener SG/SF with some power game and passing chops, I'd see RJ's closest comp as Joe Johnson. Both use a combo of strength, skill and patience rather than first step to get their buckets.

Mmmm.

Again, Johnson was a more adept ball handler and a smarter playmaker. Johnson was also an extremely low-turnover guy who was a MUCH better shooter than RJ.

And again, Barrett is dramatically superior at getting to the rim compared to someone like Johnson. He's another one who doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Dalek]

As far as tweener SG/SF with some power game and passing chops, I'd see RJ's closest comp as Joe Johnson. Both use a combo of strength, skill and patience rather than first step to get their buckets.

Mmmm.

Again, Johnson was a more adept ball handler and a smarter playmaker. Johnson was also an extremely low-turnover guy who was a MUCH better shooter than RJ.

And again, Barrett is dramatically superior at getting to the rim compared to someone like Johnson. He's another one who doesn't make a ton of sense.

I don't get the low turnover difference. RJ and JJ are about the same, unless you are basing RJ turnover rate on these past 8 games of the season. Both players around 2 TOs per game.

JJ ended up a better shooter but he was still a 37% three point shooter which I think RJ can get to if he just lowers his volume and has more shots created for him - he is currently at 35% for his career on a similar amount of attempts per game.

JJ got an all-star nod at age 25, which I think RJ could pull-off if he learns from the past 2-3 games and cuts his turnovers and bad three point shots. He's gotten away from what made him efficient here.

[tsherkin]

I don't get the low turnover difference. RJ and JJ are about the same, unless you are basing RJ turnover rate on these past 8 games of the season. Both players around 2 TOs per game.

Was looking at his TOV% and his playmaking volume, particularly as a Hawk.

JJ ended up a better shooter but he was still a 37% three point shooter which I think RJ can get to if he just lowers his volume and has more shots created for him - he is currently at 35% for his career on a similar amount of attempts per game.

3pt shooting is only one component of shooting.

[Ell Curry]

I think his situation here will depend heavily on who we draft, assuming we don't blow the draft pick. If we get a wing, my guess is Barrett will start next year but move into a 6th man role when that player earns a starting job (and the draft looks strong enough that I think that's a real possibility by year 2 or 3 for our pick):

Poeltl-Olynyk
Barnes-Mogbo
2025-RJ
Dick-Agbaji (could reverse this depending on who our pick is, do we get a 2-way player or just an offensive guy)
IQ-Mitchell/Shead

whereas if we end up with a big man you'd have Barrett starting and either Dick or Agbaji with him and the other as the 6th man. Mogbo and a guard complete the 8 man rotation and you probably need another big, one who can shoot ideally which is Olynyk/Boucher for now, though it might be hard to replace them, maybe the 2 2026 1sts can bring someone who fits that type of floor-spacing big role.

In general, I'm not a huge fan of guys like RJ who aren't great shooters or defenders, feels like they're very much regular season type players, but until we see what the 2025 pick, it's hard to say. And I don't think Masai is either, really.

I wouldn't be particularly shocked if we end up moving him at the deadline, say to Miami in a Jimmy Butler to a contender, picks and bad short term money to us, RJ to Miami (they don't tend to rebuild, he'd fit okay with Bam and Herro as basically a younger Butler replacement on offence, they'd still have 2 firsts and 2 swaps to offer for the first star guard who wants to go to Miami).

But there may also be no good offers, and RJ stays and we just hope to draft a wing and big with the 2025 picks and one of the 2026 picks (or maybe package them to move up, for a 2025 pick or a good big already in the league).