Game 12: Portland vs Minnesota 7:00pm

[Brandon-Clyde]

4th quarter GLB pic

Spoiler:

[PDXKnight]

Feels like we will lose this game but lots of positives when you take out the "pg" who has quit on his team

[Pattycakes]

Feels like we will lose this game but lots of positives when you take out the "pg" who has quit on his team

What game are you watching?

[PDXKnight]

Feels like we will lose this game but lots of positives when you take out the "pg" who has quit on his team

What game are you watching?

I'm used to the collapse & that was at the 11 minute mark up 13.

[DusterBuster]

Did Simons get hurt?

[BlazersBroncos]

Simons and Ayton simply need to be sent home until they can find a deal.

Tonight is the team I want to watch. Hustle, passion, unselfishness.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Victory GLB pic

Spoiler:

[DusterBuster]

I hear you in RW3, but IMO it has always been if he can show some semblance of health, teams will take the risk, because his impact on the game is significant enough to warrant it

Hard to argue that. If if if he is having himself a healthy year by January, a team like OKC could definitely see him as a missing piece off the bench and Presti might part with at least one first rounder, of which they have an insane amount of...

Williams
Banton

for

K. Williams
Wallace
FRP (not going to bother picking one - its a bit head spinning with how many they have and all the protections / rules)

[BlazersBroncos]

I hear you in RW3, but IMO it has always been if he can show some semblance of health, teams will take the risk, because his impact on the game is significant enough to warrant it

Hard to argue that. If if if he is having himself a healthy year by January, a team like OKC could definitely see him as a missing piece off the bench and Presti might part with at least one first rounder, of which they have an insane amount of...

Williams
Banton

for

K. Williams
Wallace
FRP (not going to bother picking one - its a bit head spinning with how many they have and all the protections / rules)

This would be wild value for RWIII even if he wasn’t as injury prone as he is IMO.

Even elite role players like RWIII are severely depreciated in value when they have his type of injury history.

I would be we can maybe squeeze a single FRP projected in the 25-30 range for him. Even that’s optimistic, but not too wild. No team is trading a pick with any real value variance for him.

And considering the above, I think I would rather move Ayton for a 40-50 projected SRP than RW for a 25-30, low upside FRP.

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots. He is a MUCH better fit here in regards to a vet with a skill set that helps the youth develop.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor than DA, it’s like immediately noticeable. We won’t get big value so just move the poor fit in Ayton for crap value and keep the guy that can set tones for the kids and helps the offensive floor tremendously - which also helps the kids develop.

Simons and Ayton can be sold for a pair of used condoms for all I care. It’s addition by subtraction. They bring big salaries, no leadership qualities and absolutely slog any offensive flow.

Next. Flight. Out.

[DusterBuster]

I hear you in RW3, but IMO it has always been if he can show some semblance of health, teams will take the risk, because his impact on the game is significant enough to warrant it

Hard to argue that. If if if he is having himself a healthy year by January, a team like OKC could definitely see him as a missing piece off the bench and Presti might part with at least one first rounder, of which they have an insane amount of...

Williams
Banton

for

K. Williams
Wallace
FRP (not going to bother picking one - its a bit head spinning with how many they have and all the protections / rules)

This would be wild value for RWIII even if he wasn’t as injury prone as he is IMO.

Even elite role players like RWIII are severely depreciated in value when they have his type of injury history.

I would be we can maybe squeeze a single FRP projected in the 25-30 range for him. Even that’s optimistic, but not too wild. No team is trading a pick with any real value variance for him.

And considering the above, I think I would rather move Ayton for a 40-50 projected SRP than RW for a 25-30, low upside FRP.

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots. He is a MUCH better fit here in regards to a vet with a skill set that helps the youth develop.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor than DA, it’s like immediately noticeable. We won’t get big value so just move the poor fit in Ayton for crap value and keep the guy that can set tones for the kids and helps the offensive floor tremendously - which also helps the kids develop.

Simons and Ayton can be sold for a pair of used condoms for all I care. It’s addition by subtraction. They bring big salaries, no leadership qualities and absolutely slog any offensive flow.

Next. Flight. Out.

Wild value? My thought was it would be one of OKC's lesser picks. They have a few that have sus lottery protection that could fall within the protected range their entire duration and then just turn into 2nd rounders or extinguish altogether. Would expect that would be the pick coming back, not one of their more coveted ones.

But your whole post kind of is contradictory:

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor

That's exactly what every team wants and contenders drool for. OKC or GSW would run over glass for a player like that.

His price is depressed clearly because if he was healthy he would command multiple FRPs clearly. A non-lottery pick FRP is fair value if he is healthy when you consider his contract as well. It's worth the risk for a team that's going for it - especially if they aren't giving up much in way of players going out.

Absolutely agree with Simons and Ayton leaving asap.

[Walton1one]

Yeah, Havestrom, Banton is just like Giannis & Tatum, sure

Nice put back by Clingan

Avdija pushes it up the court after a turnover and gets fouled

Steal & score by Sharpe

2 bad possessions\ turnovers by Scoot, adventures of a 20yr old PG

Watching Scoot it is weird. He clearly has the speed/athleticism to get by NBA caliber players, however, he keeps trying to finish like he did in HS and the players are just so much better at defending against his drives

Great take by the Time Lord!!! Cronin, you can take him out now

MIN down by 19 with less than 4MIN left, glad to see the young guys play wel

[Walton1one]

Great post Duster

RW3’s value cannot be underestimated

[Case2012]

This was sooooo much more enjoyable. Hustle, unselfishness, good defense, just overall great team basketball. Was Ayton and Ant really that much of a difference? jfc. My feeling on the team are night and day after watching that game. The starting line up needs to be Scoot, Sharpe (I wish he had a consistent motor), Camara, Deni, Clingan for the rest of the year.

Can we talk about that court? Holy cow, that was the dopest court I've ever seen, why can't we have something similar all year?

[m0ng0]

It looks kinda like the team has found it's leader, if only he could stay healthy.

[BlazersBroncos]

Hard to argue that. If if if he is having himself a healthy year by January, a team like OKC could definitely see him as a missing piece off the bench and Presti might part with at least one first rounder, of which they have an insane amount of...

Williams
Banton

for

K. Williams
Wallace
FRP (not going to bother picking one - its a bit head spinning with how many they have and all the protections / rules)

This would be wild value for RWIII even if he wasn’t as injury prone as he is IMO.

Even elite role players like RWIII are severely depreciated in value when they have his type of injury history.

I would be we can maybe squeeze a single FRP projected in the 25-30 range for him. Even that’s optimistic, but not too wild. No team is trading a pick with any real value variance for him.

And considering the above, I think I would rather move Ayton for a 40-50 projected SRP than RW for a 25-30, low upside FRP.

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots. He is a MUCH better fit here in regards to a vet with a skill set that helps the youth develop.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor than DA, it’s like immediately noticeable. We won’t get big value so just move the poor fit in Ayton for crap value and keep the guy that can set tones for the kids and helps the offensive floor tremendously - which also helps the kids develop.

Simons and Ayton can be sold for a pair of used condoms for all I care. It’s addition by subtraction. They bring big salaries, no leadership qualities and absolutely slog any offensive flow.

Next. Flight. Out.

Wild value? My thought was it would be one of OKC's lesser picks. They have a few that have sus lottery protection that could fall within the protected range their entire duration and then just turn into 2nd rounders or extinguish altogether. Would expect that would be the pick coming back, not one of their more coveted ones.

But your whole post kind of is contradictory:

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor

That's exactly what every team wants and contenders drool for. OKC or GSW would run over glass for a player like that.

His price is depressed clearly because if he was healthy he would command multiple FRPs clearly. A non-lottery pick FRP is fair value if he is healthy when you consider his contract as well. It's worth the risk for a team that's going for it - especially if they aren't giving up much in way of players going out.

Absolutely agree with Simons and Ayton leaving asap.

Cason was a lotto pick and OKC sees him as part of the core. The deal might work with him removed and PDX getting a FRP projected in that 25-30 range. RWIII with his injury history simply isnt pulling more than that. He has played 215 of 492 games (43%) and has never played more than 61 games. That history is going to pull his value down like a sinking ship.

What I am saying is given the tremendously high likelihood that the history depreciates his value into that 25-30, low variance FRP range, we should simply keep him as his relative value to this young team is higher than his trade value. He is the type of personality that you want in a young locker room, and the type of low usage, screen setting, never-give-up role player you want on the court with the youth.

The goal that the FO needs to set is to jettison Simons and Ayton at the earliest possible moment. All other goals need to be given a huge backseat to this. There will be little to no market so if you can get SRP and some shorter or equal contracts, you do it. They are making the product unwatchable, they are a plague on this franchise.

(Looking around the league I sadly see little to no takers for Simons or Ayton - NO is the only one I can see for Ayton but most here are against a CJ for Ayton swap - even though to me its clearly a deal you do and run - as for Simons - maybe DAL would have interest w/ them struggling - but I think Prosper / SRP is the best we could hope for. ORL has been beaten to death. DET might take a swing cheap (SRP). Thought CHA but Tre Mann is basically playing like a super cheap Simons. There are just not many options for either)

[BigPuma]

This blazers team is sorely lacking impactful talent. They need to take big swings to gry to get high end talent. Right now the safe move would be to trade RWIII for a low first. The risky move would be to keep him and hope he stays healthy. GIven the Blazers position, the risky move is the right one. Agree with above, even if he is injured sometimes, he is the type of guy we want building the culture, not Ayton and Simons

[DusterBuster]

This blazers team is sorely lacking impactful talent. They need to take big swings to gry to get high end talent. Right now the safe move would be to trade RWIII for a low first. The risky move would be to keep him and hope he stays healthy. GIven the Blazers position, the risky move is the right one. Agree with above, even if he is injured sometimes, he is the type of guy we want building the culture, not Ayton and Simons

Impactful talent is only going to come from internal development of the current young players and the lottery, highly unlikely from any trade directly at this point and time.

Because of his injury history, I think you have to cash out on RW3 as soon as there is a halfway decent offer. We're still too soon for a deal to be on the table for him at this point (at least for an FRP), so ignore my trade idea or view it for what it was which was a rough idea. I don't have any clue about the players I mention from OKC in terms of how the Thunder may value them - I was just looking for salary filler guys who aren't going to hurt the Blazers books.

To be clear, I don't care in any way shape or form about the players coming back to Portland in a Williams trade, they are nothing more than salary filler guys to make a deal happen. All I want to see from a Williams trade is a FRP coming back - which I think can happen if he is healthy near the deadline. The quality of that FRP is up for some debate, feel about that however you want, not interested in a splitting hairs debate about pick range / quality, but I do believe a FRP can be on the table for Williams in late Jan and up to the deadline from a contender if he's healthy still by then.

[DusterBuster]

This would be wild value for RWIII even if he wasn’t as injury prone as he is IMO.

Even elite role players like RWIII are severely depreciated in value when they have his type of injury history.

I would be we can maybe squeeze a single FRP projected in the 25-30 range for him. Even that’s optimistic, but not too wild. No team is trading a pick with any real value variance for him.

And considering the above, I think I would rather move Ayton for a 40-50 projected SRP than RW for a 25-30, low upside FRP.

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots. He is a MUCH better fit here in regards to a vet with a skill set that helps the youth develop.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor than DA, it’s like immediately noticeable. We won’t get big value so just move the poor fit in Ayton for crap value and keep the guy that can set tones for the kids and helps the offensive floor tremendously - which also helps the kids develop.

Simons and Ayton can be sold for a pair of used condoms for all I care. It’s addition by subtraction. They bring big salaries, no leadership qualities and absolutely slog any offensive flow.

Next. Flight. Out.

Wild value? My thought was it would be one of OKC's lesser picks. They have a few that have sus lottery protection that could fall within the protected range their entire duration and then just turn into 2nd rounders or extinguish altogether. Would expect that would be the pick coming back, not one of their more coveted ones.

But your whole post kind of is contradictory:

RW sets a tone for the youngsters. He hustles, speaks on defense, sets wildly better screens, rolls hard to finish above the rim and doesn’t demand shots.

The offense is so much freaking smoother with him on the floor

That's exactly what every team wants and contenders drool for. OKC or GSW would run over glass for a player like that.

His price is depressed clearly because if he was healthy he would command multiple FRPs clearly. A non-lottery pick FRP is fair value if he is healthy when you consider his contract as well. It's worth the risk for a team that's going for it - especially if they aren't giving up much in way of players going out.

Absolutely agree with Simons and Ayton leaving asap.

Cason was a lotto pick and OKC sees him as part of the core. The deal might work with him removed and PDX getting a FRP projected in that 25-30 range. RWIII with his injury history simply isnt pulling more than that. He has played 215 of 492 games (43%) and has never played more than 61 games. That history is going to pull his value down like a sinking ship.

What I am saying is given the tremendously high likelihood that the history depreciates his value into that 25-30, low variance FRP range, we should simply keep him as his relative value to this young team is higher than his trade value. He is the type of personality that you want in a young locker room, and the type of low usage, screen setting, never-give-up role player you want on the court with the youth.

The goal that the FO needs to set is to jettison Simons and Ayton at the earliest possible moment. All other goals need to be given a huge backseat to this. There will be little to no market so if you can get SRP and some shorter or equal contracts, you do it. They are making the product unwatchable, they are a plague on this franchise.

See my previous post about the OKC players I mentioned. If they like them or value them, that was just ignorance on my part of knowing about the guys they have on their roster, just looking for salary filler players to make a deal happen.

(Looking around the league I sadly see little to no takers for Simons or Ayton - NO is the only one I can see for Ayton but most here are against a CJ for Ayton swap - even though to me its clearly a deal you do and run - as for Simons - maybe DAL would have interest w/ them struggling - but I think Prosper / SRP is the best we could hope for. ORL has been beaten to death. DET might take a swing cheap (SRP). Thought CHA but Tre Mann is basically playing like a super cheap Simons. There are just not many options for either)

According to Goldbum (who unlike us, is actually connected to NBA FO sources), this doesn't seem to be accurate. I can see your viewpoint from the outside looking in - and I would largely actually agree with you from that same vantage point, but I'm willing to take the word of someone who has more inside knowledge than myself on this one.

Teams who I think Simons would be a good fit on...

Clippers. They have no incentive to be terrible this season because of not having their pick, Tucker wants out, add in Terence Mann (who's having a bad year and Simons is significantly better than) and the salary works. Simons would work well alongside Harden I think.

Grizzlies. Smart and a small salary filler guy makes money work and Simons would be a huge upgrade over Smart. Throw in a pick there and that's an interesting fit.

Warriors. Salary hard to make work, but think he's a good player fit.

Orlando still, a KCP for Simons swap, but I would want a decent first back to take on KCP's salary... don't get how that dude has gotten paid so much throughout his career...

[BlazersBroncos]

Clippers. They have no incentive to be terrible this season because of not having their pick, Tucker wants out, add in Terence Mann (who's having a bad year and Simons is significantly better than) and the salary works. Simons would work well alongside Harden I think.

Grizzlies. Smart and a small salary filler guy makes money work and Simons would be a huge upgrade over Smart. Throw in a pick there and that's an interesting fit.

Warriors. Salary hard to make work, but think he's a good player fit.

Orlando still, a KCP for Simons swap, but I would want a decent first back to take on KCP's salary... don't get how that dude has gotten paid so much throughout his career...

LAC has Powell. Simons and Ja or Simons and Curry just wont work - tiny no defense backcourts are not trending.

ORL is the main hope. Dont think they move off KCP so quickly but Simons and Walker for Harris, Cole and a Top-20 protected FRP might get it done. (But I am not convinced ORL will see it feasible from a long'ish term salary perspective).

[DusterBuster]

LAC has Powell. Simons and Ja or Simons and Curry just wont work - tiny no defense backcourts are not trending.

Agree to disagree with all this.

Clippers need scoring, plain and simple. They need height and wings too, they just need a lot of things and they don't have any incentive to be bad. They just need talent and their best bet right now isn't to be some defensive juggernaught - they don't have the pieces to make that happen, so their best bet is to just outscore teams. Simons makes sense with the Clippers, even with Powell and there's a working history between the FO's.

Memphis needs coverage for Ja who's largely become a injury liability and they need depth. Smart is looking washed af and Simons would be an amazing replacement that would boost their depth a ton and provide support in the case of a Ja injury. Saying "just won't work" is pretty shortsighted imo. You can't just say a team isn't a fit because they have a starter at that position. Goes the same for GSW.

Again, my working theory I'm going with is that the teams are going to be upper echelon teams looking at Simons are going to want him as a super 6th man type role or insurance in case of their starting PG/SG goes down with injury. I think looking at it as "he can only goto a team where he will be the starter" is not accurate.

ORL is the main hope. Dont think they move off KCP so quickly but Simons and Walker for Harris, Cole and a Top-20 protected FRP might get it done. (But I am not convinced ORL will see it feasible from a long'ish term salary perspective).

Pre previous comments, I could care less what players come back in any Simons deal - if I'm naming players, it's just to give examples of matching salaries. The only concern with players I have is if the the Blazers are taking on more years beyond what Ant's contract currently is, then the (perceived) value of the FRP should be better.