Official RJ Barrett Thread

[Scase]

Digging deeper on RJ's struggles:

His usage is too high. He's also being tasked to self-create way too much. Here are his % of fg assisted (2023/24 vs 2024/25):

2P%: .62 vs .32
3P%: .98 vs .78

RJ is creating far more of his own offense this year and it's cratering his efficiency. He's basically creating double his own 2pt attempts compared to last season.

Some shooting stats: 97% of RJ's 3pa were c&s last season with us. He made 39% of those. Only 73% of his 3pa this season are c&s. RJ is shooting 37% on c&s (similar to last year) but his off the dribble 3pt game is terrible (he's shooting 19%). He's also taking far more midrange attempts (0.2 vs 1.3 attempts per game). He's about 30% from midrange so this is killing his efficiency.

If we can reign RJ back in (ie decrease his usage once IQ and Barnes are back) his efficiency should rise. That will cut out any off the dribble 3's and pretty much any midrange attempts.

There is one cause for concern: his fg% within 5ft is currently 53%. This is a bad number but this number is more inline with his career than the 67% he shot within 5ft last year. If he's back to being a bad/mediocre finisher at the rim this is not good. If he's not going to be a >60% finisher at the rim (the only time he did it was last year) he's not going to add a lot of value.

Yeah I think everyone can see he's having to try and do too much out there. From the eye test, he's also getting a lot of grenades late shot clock where he's forced to create something, because we don't have anyone on this roster that can with Scottie and IQ out. Basically, he's not getting anything easy out there to catch a rhythm and get himself going and it's likely leading to some frustration and poor decision making on his end.

The rim finishing is a concern but our lack of shooting is probably really hurting the spacing. Even with all our ball movement, we are 2nd last in threes and 3rd last in attempts. Not having to worry about defending the 3 is allowing teams to really pack the paint in against us.

Ehhhh, last night he had 4 of his 13 FGA with 7sec or less on the clock, and one of those he made. The other two, one was an open 3 and the other two were him over dribbling the ball for a few seconds and putting himself in that position.

The injuries are definitely having an impact on his potential play, but a lot of this stuff is self inflicted.

[ItsDanger]

Ideally, he's used strictly in a 3rd scoring option role. Current lineup isn't ideal either which clouds any assessment.

[ConSarnit]

Barrett's recent shooting woes started the moment Barnes got hurt and Quickly was already out. When the clock runs deep and you have to be the guy that has to take very shot, or the end of the half, or the game is on the line, some guys just are not that guy. So far Barrett isn't that guy when he's got little help out there without someone taking the number one spot.

This. He is not an on the ball guy. He is at his best playing a similar role to what Gradey is playing..

If you put Gradey in the role of prinary ball handler/ facilitator, he would fail as well. I have no idea why the coaching staff can't find another way to run the offense with IQ & Barnes out.

You have to put players in a position to succeed. Last season Darko did a great job at that. This season, I have no idea what he is thinking. My feeling is he thinks its "development". The truth is RJ already had his development time in a primary ball handler role with the Knicks & it didn't work. Quit beating your head against the wall Darko. Get back to putting him in position to succeed.

One thing is clear. RJ needs Scottie..........and to some degree Scottie needs RJ.

Are we over-analyzing here? RJ was not the primary ball handler in NY, was #3 behind behind Brunson and Randle. RJ's best string of games last season in TO occurred after Barnes' season ending injury and was playing well to start this season without Barnes. In fact, in his only game with Barnes this season he didn't play all that well, shot only 9-21.

RJ needs someone. Last year the player who assisted him the most was IQ. Then Barnes, Schroder, Olynyk and Poeltl, in that order. His % of fg assisted needs to be closer to that of a 3+D player (swapping out some 3pa for rim attempts).

[ATLTimekeeper]

His game is lacking patience. We don't have any vet PG's that can take the ball out of his hands. It's actually really weird that we're small and have no threatening ball-handlers aside from IQ and RJ.

[Chandan]

he threw up some absolute bricks from three the past few games. That 3 shot is starting to get concerning.

[PushDaRock]

Digging deeper on RJ's struggles:

His usage is too high. He's also being tasked to self-create way too much. Here are his % of fg assisted (2023/24 vs 2024/25):

2P%: .62 vs .32
3P%: .98 vs .78

RJ is creating far more of his own offense this year and it's cratering his efficiency. He's basically creating double his own 2pt attempts compared to last season.

Some shooting stats: 97% of RJ's 3pa were c&s last season with us. He made 39% of those. Only 73% of his 3pa this season are c&s. RJ is shooting 37% on c&s (similar to last year) but his off the dribble 3pt game is terrible (he's shooting 19%). He's also taking far more midrange attempts (0.2 vs 1.3 attempts per game). He's about 30% from midrange so this is killing his efficiency.

If we can reign RJ back in (ie decrease his usage once IQ and Barnes are back) his efficiency should rise. That will cut out any off the dribble 3's and pretty much any midrange attempts.

There is one cause for concern: his fg% within 5ft is currently 53%. This is a bad number but this number is more inline with his career than the 67% he shot within 5ft last year. If he's back to being a bad/mediocre finisher at the rim this is not good. If he's not going to be a >60% finisher at the rim (the only time he did it was last year) he's not going to add a lot of value.

Yeah I think everyone can see he's having to try and do too much out there. From the eye test, he's also getting a lot of grenades late shot clock where he's forced to create something, because we don't have anyone on this roster that can with Scottie and IQ out. Basically, he's not getting anything easy out there to catch a rhythm and get himself going and it's likely leading to some frustration and poor decision making on his end.

The rim finishing is a concern but our lack of shooting is probably really hurting the spacing. Even with all our ball movement, we are 2nd last in threes and 3rd last in attempts. Not having to worry about defending the 3 is allowing teams to really pack the paint in against us.

Ehhhh, last night he had 4 of his 13 FGA with 7sec or less on the clock, and one of those he made. The other two, one was an open 3 and the other two were him over dribbling the ball for a few seconds and putting himself in that position.

The injuries are definitely having an impact on his potential play, but a lot of this stuff is self inflicted.

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

[Vampirate]

he threw up some absolute bricks from three the past few games. That 3 shot is starting to get concerning.

The truth is in the middle.

He was never a #1 or #2 option, but he's still better than what he was in NY.

The thing is his role on the Knicks and the current Raptors doesn't take advantage of his strengths.

He's an excellent offball player and has shown that on about 40% catch and shoot threes, he can hit at about 40%.

Essentially he's exposed for being not a star, but is still a good player, like a 3rd or ideally 4th option. If the offense actually ran though Barnes again, his percentages would go up again.

Just in the wrong role atm, no big deal this year.

[Phezmo123]

he threw up some absolute bricks from three the past few games. That 3 shot is starting to get concerning.

The truth is in the middle.

He was never a #1 or #2 option, but he's still better than what he was in NY.

The thing is his role on the Knicks and the current Raptors doesn't take advantage of his strengths.

He's an excellent offball player and has shown that on about 40% catch and shoot threes, he can hit at about 40%.

Essentially he's exposed for being not a star, but is still a good player, like a 3rd or ideally 4th option. If the offense actually ran though Barnes again, his percentages would go up again.

Just in the wrong role atm, no big deal this year.

He honestly could be asked to be the #4 on this team because of Gradey's ascension

he should improve as the season goes on

[Scase]

Yeah I think everyone can see he's having to try and do too much out there. From the eye test, he's also getting a lot of grenades late shot clock where he's forced to create something, because we don't have anyone on this roster that can with Scottie and IQ out. Basically, he's not getting anything easy out there to catch a rhythm and get himself going and it's likely leading to some frustration and poor decision making on his end.

The rim finishing is a concern but our lack of shooting is probably really hurting the spacing. Even with all our ball movement, we are 2nd last in threes and 3rd last in attempts. Not having to worry about defending the 3 is allowing teams to really pack the paint in against us.

Ehhhh, last night he had 4 of his 13 FGA with 7sec or less on the clock, and one of those he made. The other two, one was an open 3 and the other two were him over dribbling the ball for a few seconds and putting himself in that position.

The injuries are definitely having an impact on his potential play, but a lot of this stuff is self inflicted.

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

7
20
23
10
18

Quite the opposite actually, and that 7 second one was caused by him over dribbling the ball, dumping it off to Mitchell, then over dribbling it for a couple more seconds before it got slapped out of his hands.

Like I said, pretty much everything is self inflicted. I can give him a pass on the 23 second one since it was messy off the bucks turnover, but the other 4 were all him.

[ConSarnit]

he threw up some absolute bricks from three the past few games. That 3 shot is starting to get concerning.

He's still fine on C&S 3's. 37% and that's with his corner volume way down. He just can't be taking any off the dribble 3's (or midrange attempts).

[Chandan]

he threw up some absolute bricks from three the past few games. That 3 shot is starting to get concerning.

The truth is in the middle.

He was never a #1 or #2 option, but he's still better than what he was in NY.

The thing is his role on the Knicks and the current Raptors doesn't take advantage of his strengths.

He's an excellent offball player and has shown that on about 40% catch and shoot threes, he can hit at about 40%.

Essentially he's exposed for being not a star, but is still a good player, like a 3rd or ideally 4th option. If the offense actually ran though Barnes again, his percentages would go up again.

Just in the wrong role atm, no big deal this year.

He honestly could be asked to be the #4 on this team because of Gradey's ascension

he should improve as the season goes on

Everyone of our past failed experiments would also look a lot better if their roles are shifted 1-2 tiers down. FVV would be an awesome backpoint guard, Siakam as the third option already won us a championship, bosh also won as a third banana... Etc. One common thing is they all play defense, so they are able to slide down and still be effective.

It's really a matter of how low in the hierarchy RJ tolerates himself to go. And under a small offensive diet, can he contribute to other areas of the game in a meaningful way.
Can RJ be Danny Green? Does he still carry that 3rd overall pick expectation for himself?

[Vampirate]

Ehhhh, last night he had 4 of his 13 FGA with 7sec or less on the clock, and one of those he made. The other two, one was an open 3 and the other two were him over dribbling the ball for a few seconds and putting himself in that position.

The injuries are definitely having an impact on his potential play, but a lot of this stuff is self inflicted.

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

7
20
23
10
18

Quite the opposite actually, and that 7 second one was caused by him over dribbling the ball, dumping it off to Mitchell, then over dribbling it for a couple more seconds before it got slapped out of his hands.

Like I said, pretty much everything is self inflicted. I can give him a pass on the 23 second one since it was messy off the bucks turnover, but the other 4 were all him.

Being honest here, what's happening now might be one of the best things for the team long term in not only draft picks but in the RJ decision come keeping him/moving off from him.

The more he struggles this year the more beneficial it is for the Raptors long term either moving off from him or actually keeping on on a team friendly deal.

I'm not against keeping RJ if the price is right and he's in a proper role. However he's not a priority in keeping, he's more a luxury at this point.

Essentially by the time he's up for a new contract, we might (hopefully) have the pieces to the point where even him walking in FA isn't that big of a deal should it come to it. The reason we made the deal was mainly for IQ.

[PushDaRock]

Ehhhh, last night he had 4 of his 13 FGA with 7sec or less on the clock, and one of those he made. The other two, one was an open 3 and the other two were him over dribbling the ball for a few seconds and putting himself in that position.

The injuries are definitely having an impact on his potential play, but a lot of this stuff is self inflicted.

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

7
20
23
10
18

Quite the opposite actually, and that 7 second one was cause by him over dribbling the ball, dumping it off to Mitchell, then over dribbling it for a couple more seconds before it got slapped out of his hands.

Like I said, pretty much everything is self inflicted. I can give him a pass on the 23 second one since it was messy off the bucks turnover, but the other 4 were all him.

I'm not saying the turnovers aren't his fault, but they're also the result of having nobody else that can do anything with the ball. What's the alternative? Having Shead or Mitchell create? Those guys aren't drawing any help and they're turning it over like crazy. RJ's turnover rate is at 14.3% while Mitchell is at 21.2% and Shead at 23.1%. We have a team full of guys in the lineup that can't create an advantage right now, Gradey can create some separation for himself to score off some actions but he isn't setting anyone up off those. He's playing poorly and there's no excusing that but he's also not set up for success either right now.

[brownbobcat]

I'm not saying the turnovers aren't his fault, but they're also the result of having nobody else that can do anything with the ball. What's the alternative? Having Shead or Mitchell create? Those guys aren't drawing any help and they're turning it over like crazy. RJ's turnover rate is at 14.3% while Mitchell is at 21.2% and Shead at 23.1%. We have a team full of guys in the lineup that can't create an advantage right now, Gradey can create some separation for himself to score off some actions but he isn't setting anyone up off those. He's playing poorly and there's no excusing that but he's also not set up for success either right now.

RJ is creating all of his own offense this year - assisted on 32% of his 2PT FG vs. 62% with Toronto last year. The problem is that there's no one else right now. Mitchell & Shead aren't anywhere close to being starter-quality guards.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

7
20
23
10
18

Quite the opposite actually, and that 7 second one was cause by him over dribbling the ball, dumping it off to Mitchell, then over dribbling it for a couple more seconds before it got slapped out of his hands.

Like I said, pretty much everything is self inflicted. I can give him a pass on the 23 second one since it was messy off the bucks turnover, but the other 4 were all him.

I'm not saying the turnovers aren't his fault, but they're also the result of having nobody else that can do anything with the ball. What's the alternative? Having Shead or Mitchell create? Those guys aren't drawing any help and they're turning it over like crazy. RJ's turnover rate is at 14.3% while Mitchell is at 21.2% and Shead at 23.1%. We have a team full of guys in the lineup that can't create an advantage right now, Gradey can create some separation for himself to score off some actions but he isn't setting anyone up off those. He's playing poorly and there's no excusing that but he's also not set up for success either right now.

Teams take away the back cuts and let RJ have that midrange that he can't score in. He's forcing, but you are correct that the rest of the team is not designed to 1) play this many minutes and 2) play together. I'll never throw rookies under the bus but Mogbo is pure cringe right now with the ball in his hands. Everyone is just waiting under the basket for our players. They know we can't hit 3s and they know we can't pull up off the dribble and stick a midrange J. People wonder why James Harden is a playoff dud, it's because he can only score in 2 zones.

[Scase]

I would guess a decent amount of his turnovers have come late clock as well and him trying to force something.

7
20
23
10
18

Quite the opposite actually, and that 7 second one was cause by him over dribbling the ball, dumping it off to Mitchell, then over dribbling it for a couple more seconds before it got slapped out of his hands.

Like I said, pretty much everything is self inflicted. I can give him a pass on the 23 second one since it was messy off the bucks turnover, but the other 4 were all him.

I'm not saying the turnovers aren't his fault, but they're also the result of having nobody else that can do anything with the ball. What's the alternative? Having Shead or Mitchell create? Those guys aren't drawing any help and they're turning it over like crazy. RJ's turnover rate is at 14.3% while Mitchell is at 21.2% and Shead at 23.1%. We have a team full of guys in the lineup that can't create an advantage right now, Gradey can create some separation for himself to score off some actions but he isn't setting anyone up off those. He's playing poorly and there's no excusing that but he's also not set up for success either right now.

I understand from the creation aspect, but take a look at the turnovers from last night, these aren't from him trying to create, these are unforced turnovers. He's not getting some insane defensive pressure, he's turning the ball over on single coverage from players who no one in the world would consider good defenders.

Mitchell is a mediocre PG, and Shead is a 45th overall pick. My expectations are pretty low for them both, RJ should be held to a higher standard. But none of this changes the plain fact that his game is so 1 dimensional, sure he's not in the best position, but that also doesn't mean the criticism isn't valid.

It's reasons like these why I disagree vehemently when people try and say that RJ is part of the core or he is a long term piece, his game is way too flawed for it. RJ is a stop gap, and that's fine, when used appropriately I don't think he's a detriment (based off last years small sample size), but he's like Boucher, as soon as he isn't producing in the few ways he's useful, he becomes a massive liability.

[brownbobcat]

I understand from the creation aspect, but take a look at the turnovers from last night, these aren't from him trying to create, these are unforced turnovers. He's not getting some insane defensive pressure, he's turning the ball over on single coverage from players who no one in the world would consider good defenders.

The only very careless turnover was #1.
#2 was driving into the paint
#3 was trying to start the break
#4 looked like it was actually a layup attemp
#5 was driving into the paint and trying to kick it to Gradey

I'm not saying these are all smart decisions, but I think it is indicative of a player trying to do too much because it's a very depleted roster.

Mitchell is a mediocre PG, and Shead is a 45th overall pick. My expectations are pretty low for them both, RJ should be held to a higher standard. But none of this changes the plain fact that his game is so 1 dimensional, sure he's not in the best position, but that also doesn't mean the criticism isn't valid.

It's reasons like these why I disagree vehemently when people try and say that RJ is part of the core or he is a long term piece, his game is way too flawed for it. RJ is a stop gap, and that's fine, when used appropriately I don't think he's a detriment (based off last years small sample size), but he's like Boucher, as soon as he isn't producing in the few ways he's useful, he becomes a massive liability.

I'm not sold on him being a long term piece either, but he has time to improve and supposedly has a strong work ethic. Shooting is going to be a problem with a core surrounding him + Barnes, I think we all knew that.

[Scase]

I understand from the creation aspect, but take a look at the turnovers from last night, these aren't from him trying to create, these are unforced turnovers. He's not getting some insane defensive pressure, he's turning the ball over on single coverage from players who no one in the world would consider good defenders.

The only very careless turnover was #1.
#2 was driving into the paint
#3 was trying to start the break
#4 looked like it was actually a layup attemp
#5 was driving into the paint and trying to kick it to Gradey

I'm not saying these are all smart decisions, but I think it is indicative of a player trying to do too much because it's a very depleted roster.

Mitchell is a mediocre PG, and Shead is a 45th overall pick. My expectations are pretty low for them both, RJ should be held to a higher standard. But none of this changes the plain fact that his game is so 1 dimensional, sure he's not in the best position, but that also doesn't mean the criticism isn't valid.

It's reasons like these why I disagree vehemently when people try and say that RJ is part of the core or he is a long term piece, his game is way too flawed for it. RJ is a stop gap, and that's fine, when used appropriately I don't think he's a detriment (based off last years small sample size), but he's like Boucher, as soon as he isn't producing in the few ways he's useful, he becomes a massive liability.

I'm not sold on him being a long term piece either, but he has time to improve and supposedly has a strong work ethic. Shooting is going to be a problem with a core surrounding him + Barnes, I think we all knew that.

That's the thing I don't think they are careless, I see what he's trying to do, I just don't think he has the prerequisite skills to actually do it. That's why I see them as unforced vs careless, he's making bad decisions, but he's not doing it cause he's lazy, he just is doing more than he is capable of.

He definitely has room for improvement, but we also need to be realistic by how much. He's never going to be a good or even average defender, being a highly efficient player over a large sample size is probably not likely either, his game is always going to be easy to defend unless he becomes very reliable from 3, and so on.

When I say "He's not a long term piece" I don't mean it as he can't be on the team for years, but more so in his current role I don't think he can be, and the team be successful at the same time. But if he were to accept a 6th man role, I'd happily keep him around.

[disoblige]

He obviously not playing within his strengths like he was forced to last season. He has been taking many stepback 3s. We are obviously tanking and he needs to be outside his comfort zone to improve his game.

[TheAlchemist23]

He obviously not playing within his strengths like he was forced to last season. He has been taken many stepback 3s. We are obviously tanking and he needs to be outside his comfort zone to improve his game.

There's five+ years worth of on-ball sample size showing who RJ is. I'd rather Gradey get on ball touches, let's see if he can grow on ball.