Ayton, Grant, and Simons for anything?

[Norm2953]

December 15 when more players are eligible to be traded might be the day to watch.

If the team suddenly comes along, Ayton might be the first one to go if the team wishes to
go with Clingan and TL with Reath playing when TL is either out injured or rested. Move him
to the Pelicans for CJ if they have to. Have CJ play the third guard minutes as veteran presence
behind Sharpe/Scoot. Tell Simons to stay home if he has indeed asked out.

[Walton1one]

Timelord is going to be traded, love him as a player but, the propensity for injuries is one reason to trade him, the other is that I don't see any way\reason he would resign with this team when his contract is up at the end of next season.

I don't think Ayton is going anywhere unless a team offers something compelling to POR, meaning I don't think Cronin will offload him just to be rid of him. Ayton was at the game\on the bench last night with the rest of the team. I maintain that the fact Simons was not was pretty telling, POR has 3 days off, curious to see if there is any news about Simons (or if he is dealt) before the game Sun w\ATL

[BlazersBroncos]

Trading TL and keeping Ayton is the cowards way out.

Ok, that was a bit over the top. But I would gain a great deal of confidence in Cronin if he managed to deal Ayton rather than TL.

Again, I would rather have Ayton off this team and get a few SRP than get a late FRP for TL.

I think the development and tone that RWIII sets is more likely to help the young guys develop than a late FRP is likely to 'hit'.

[Walton1one]

For teams and trades, I would keep an eye on Philly for RW3 if he's healthy.

GSW too, Williams would be a perfect fit for the Warriors, especially if they're still a Top 4 west team. Milton straight up for Williams works and they can throw in their 2025 FRP which is pretty much a lock to be 20... they might need to give a 2026 pick tho since they didn't have a FRP in 2024 - which is fine. Warriors still seem on track to be really good next year.

for OKC: Holmgren might be out till March and Hartenstein might not return till Christmas. Pretty sure they want HCA in the playoffs. They might be willing to part with a 1st for Timelord

Timelord for Caruso + a 1st?

I actually think this could be a possibility. I always wondered why people blasted CHI for trading Caruso straight up for Giddey. Giddey is 22 and an RFA next year, Caruso will be a FA (age 31). CHI getting Giddey was plenty of value (worth as much\more than a 1st IMO).

Both Chet & Jalen Williams are RFA in 26/27 (the year after). My guess is they want to postpone being above the luxury tax until 26/27. I think the thought was Caruso would provide them a veteran piece who could help them win now while not impeding them salary-wise in 26/27. Curiously enough, RW3 would be similar (his contract is up in 26/27)

I think the goal for OKC was to:
1) Get something of value back for Giddey, whom I wager they were not going to resign
2) Try to remain under the luxury cap until 26/27 season (when their cap problems will begin in earnest)

Right now, OKC is $9.5 under the luxury cap, exchanging Caruso for RW3 would add approximately $3mil in cap space, which is a non issue this year and if I calculated correctly, would also keep them under the luxury tax NEXT YEAR as well (LT this year is $170.8, I calculated salary obligations, including RW3 @ $169, and that doesn't factor in LT going up next year, which it would)

OKC has FOUR picks in the 2025 draft, no way they are keeping them all IMO and I think chances are very good (3) of them convey (first 3 listed)

2025 picks owed to OKC
MIA 25' (1-14 protect), THEN unprotected in 26'
PHI 25' (1-6 protect) THEN 1-4 protect in 26' & 27', if not conveyed 27' 2nd
OKC\LAC\HOU 25' OKC gets most favorable of picks b\t these 3 teams, HOU pick is (1-10 protect)
UTA 25' (1-10 protect) THEN (1-8 protect in 26') THEN nada

OKC has 13 players locked under contract next season (not including Caruso), so they would have to let Caruso go AND trade a player away anyway to accomodate 3 new players. I don't see them doing that, chances are (if they don't utilize them in a deal for RW3 or another player) they will trade away 1-2 of those picks for future picks

Why Caruso? He has struggled this year, and I wager he is not in their plans moving forward after this year. Is he more valuable than Aaron Wiggins\Isaiah Joe\Dort all 5-6yrs younger? I don't think so. I mean if OKC wanted to send one of those players to POR instead of Caruso, I suspect they would gleefully accept, but I don't see that happening. This makes sense, PROVIDED OKC feels the need\pressure to do something about the center position, but both Hartenstein & Holmgren are going to be out for quite a while but they might be good enough to survive well enough until they return. Although IMO, RW3 (if healthy) would be a good pickup (not just a temporary stopgap)

OKC is far enough under the cap (and with Caruso UFA next year) they could acquire RW3 for other non (major) rotation pieces like:

Dieng (combined with another minor salary like Leons\Dillon Jones\Jaylin Williams (the OTHER one)
Kenrich Williams (straight up or combined with a younger player like Topic\Jones\Jaylin Williams)
Nikola Topic (combined with Jaylin Williams or Dillon Jones)

Lots of options, but a Caruso or Kenrich Williams combined with a 25' 1st (any one of them except UTA pick) could work for both teams IMO.

Trading Kenrich Williams might be the best option: They lose Caruso ($9.6) and Williams ($7.16 club option in 26/27), pick up RW3 (decision on whether to resign or not becomes easier w\o Caruso AND Williams on roster)

Dort is also up in 26/27 ($17.7 club option) as is Cason Wallace ($7.4 club option), Hartenstein ($28.5) and Topic ($5.4 club option)

Chet\Jalen Williams & Dieng are all RFA in 26/27

Acquiring RW3 gives them options to consider (Hartenstein, Dieng)

[Walton1one]

Trading TL and keeping Ayton is the cowards way out.

Ok, that was a bit over the top. But I would gain a great deal of confidence in Cronin if he managed to deal Ayton rather than TL.

Again, I would rather have Ayton off this team and get a few SRP than get a late FRP for TL.

I think the development and tone that RWIII sets is more likely to help the young guys develop than a late FRP is likely to 'hit'.

From a talent\team construction I 100% agree with you RW3 is great, but realistically his injury history and his contract (UFA after next season\not resigning) COMBINED make keeping him a bad idea, especially if POR can net a mid\late 1st round pick back for him. Not trading him in that scenario would be malpractice as a GM.

[DusterBuster]

I'm down to move both Ayton and RW3. Much much much prefer Ayton moving - as mentioned, I could genuinely care less for what as long as it's not financially irresponsible and doesn't create a logjam unnecessarily. I think they should move RW3 as well, but less concerned if that happens or not as he seems to be an amazing lockerroom guy when healthy and doesn't seem concerned coming off the bench behind Clingan, but in the interest of overall asset management + collection, I think they should move him if a deal comes along as well.

Just clear the deck for the Baby Blazers, that's all I care about. Get Ayton and Ant out of here so Scoot and Clingan can be the unquestionable starters, that's my biggest priorities imo. If you can get something for Grant, Rob and Matisse as well, even better but less pressing.

Unfortunately, these addition by subtraction moves may have the unintended consequence of making the Blazers exciting, fun and frisky... a "League Pass" team as the pods like the call it... which could result in Billups getting an extension...

[Wizenheimer]

For teams and trades, I would keep an eye on Philly for RW3 if he's healthy.

GSW too, Williams would be a perfect fit for the Warriors, especially if they're still a Top 4 west team. Milton straight up for Williams works and they can throw in their 2025 FRP which is pretty much a lock to be 20... they might need to give a 2026 pick tho since they didn't have a FRP in 2024 - which is fine. Warriors still seem on track to be really good next year.

for OKC: Holmgren might be out till March and Hartenstein might not return till Christmas. Pretty sure they want HCA in the playoffs. They might be willing to part with a 1st for Timelord

Timelord for Caruso + a 1st?

I actually think this could be a possibility. I always wondered why people blasted CHI for trading Caruso straight up for Giddey. Giddey is 22 and an RFA next year, Caruso will be a FA (age 31). CHI getting Giddey was plenty of value (worth as much\more than a 1st IMO).

Both Chet & Jalen Williams are RFA in 26/27 (the year after). My guess is they want to postpone being above the luxury tax until 26/27. I think the thought was Caruso would provide them a veteran piece who could help them win now while not impeding them salary-wise in 26/27. Curiously enough, RW3 would be similar (his contract is up in 26/27)

I think the goal for OKC was to:
1) Get something of value back for Giddey, whom I wager they were not going to resign
2) Try to remain under the luxury cap until 26/27 season (when their cap problems will begin in earnest)

Right now, OKC is $9.5 under the luxury cap, exchanging Caruso for RW3 would add approximately $3mil in cap space, which is a non issue this year and if I calculated correctly, would also keep them under the luxury tax NEXT YEAR as well (LT this year is $170.8, I calculated salary obligations, including RW3 @ $169, and that doesn't factor in LT going up next year, which it would)

OKC has FOUR picks in the 2025 draft, no way they are keeping them all IMO and I think chances are very good (3) of them convey (first 3 listed)

2025 picks owed to OKC
MIA 25' (1-14 protect), THEN unprotected in 26'
PHI 25' (1-6 protect) THEN 1-4 protect in 26' & 27', if not conveyed 27' 2nd
OKC\LAC\HOU 25' OKC gets most favorable of picks b\t these 3 teams, HOU pick is (1-10 protect)
UTA 25' (1-10 protect) THEN (1-8 protect in 26') THEN nada

OKC has 13 players locked under contract next season (not including Caruso), so they would have to let Caruso go AND trade a player away anyway to accomodate 3 new players. I don't see them doing that, chances are (if they don't utilize them in a deal for RW3 or another player) they will trade away 1-2 of those picks for future picks

Why Caruso? He has struggled this year, and I wager he is not in their plans moving forward after this year. Is he more valuable than Aaron Wiggins\Isaiah Joe\Dort all 5-6yrs younger? I don't think so. I mean if OKC wanted to send one of those players to POR instead of Caruso, I suspect they would gleefully accept, but I don't see that happening. This makes sense, PROVIDED OKC feels the need\pressure to do something about the center position, but both Hartenstein & Holmgren are going to be out for quite a while but they might be good enough to survive well enough until they return. Although IMO, RW3 (if healthy) would be a good pickup (not just a temporary stopgap)

OKC is far enough under the cap (and with Caruso UFA next year) they could acquire RW3 for other non (major) rotation pieces like:

Dieng (combined with another minor salary like Leons\Dillon Jones\Jaylin Williams (the OTHER one)
Kenrich Williams (straight up or combined with a younger player like Topic\Jones\Jaylin Williams)
Nikola Topic (combined with Jaylin Williams or Dillon Jones)

Lots of options, but a Caruso or Kenrich Williams combined with a 25' 1st (any one of them except UTA pick) could work for both teams IMO.

Trading Kenrich Williams might be the best option: They lose Caruso ($9.6) and Williams ($7.16 club option in 26/27), pick up RW3 (decision on whether to resign or not becomes easier w\o Caruso AND Williams on roster)

Dort is also up in 26/27 ($17.7 club option) as is Cason Wallace ($7.4 club option), Hartenstein ($28.5) and Topic ($5.4 club option)

Chet\Jalen Williams & Dieng are all RFA in 26/27

Acquiring RW3 gives them options to consider (Hartenstein, Dieng)

I'm not sure about all that

I just remember reading about how OKC was trying avoid paying Giddey a major rookie extension and why they wanted Caruso's expiring contract

ans Caruso has been terrible this season so far

[Effigy]

I'd like us to move off Simons just to give an opportunity to Scoot. Scoot needs to start so we can figure out what we have and if he can develop into anything. And as long as Simons is there, Simons will get the minutes. We gotta go Billy Beane in Moneyball and trade him away so Chauncey can't play him. I think it's less urgent to trade away the other two. You can always use size in this league. Ayton is taking away from Clingan's pt, but Clingan is a rookie, I really don't care if he starts this year. Next offseason, perhaps it would make sense to move on from Deandre. Grant I don't love but he doesn't seem to be taking away minutes from any of our young core. Shots, sure, but not minutes. So He's the lowest priority to trade for me.

[Walton1one]

I'd like us to move off Simons just to give an opportunity to Scoot. Scoot needs to start so we can figure out what we have and if he can develop into anything. And as long as Simons is there, Simons will get the minutes. We gotta go Billy Beane in Moneyball and trade him away so Chauncey can't play him. I think it's less urgent to trade away the other two. You can always use size in this league. Ayton is taking away from Clingan's pt, but Clingan is a rookie, I really don't care if he starts this year. Next offseason, perhaps it would make sense to move on from Deandre. Grant I don't love but he doesn't seem to be taking away minutes from any of our young core. Shots, sure, but not minutes. So He's the lowest priority to trade for me.

100% Love that analogy.

"Can't Start Simons Chauncey, because he is on X team now"

[DusterBuster]

I wonder if the Rockets would want Ayton? Adams is not looking healthy at all this year for them, so they could really use a big.

Adams, Smith Jr, Green for Ayton and Walker works. They get an upgrade at C, blazers clear cash and kick tires on Jabari Smith Jr.

[Braggins]

I would keep RWIII so Scoot has an elite lob threat to work with. You don't need to completely bottom out anymore to effectively tank and its not good for guys you want to develop if they don't have any decent veterans on the team to work with.

[Butter]

I would keep RWIII so Scoot has an elite lob threat to work with. You don't need to completely bottom out anymore to effectively tank and its not good for guys you want to develop if they don't have any decent veterans on the team to work with.

RWIII is such a conundrum. He is such a perfect fit for the Blazers as a veteran mentor with complimentary playing style. If they can ever trade Ayton, I love the idea of Clingan and RWIII.

BUT, there's the constant risk of injury. And if he gets hurt again, it'll probably kill any trade value.

[DusterBuster]

The Hoop Collective pod went on a good 2-4min rant by all hosts about how Clingan needs to be getting 30min a game. Let him play through mistakes, foul issues, conditioning, but he should absolutely be the starting C and getting starter minutes for the rest of the season.

They were also much more pessimistic about Ayton as a lot of you are here, claiming no one will take his contract... I still think that's a little overblown - but who knows. Hopefully Ayton just has a lot of "nagging" "injuries" all year.

[BlazersBroncos]

I am wondering about LAL in a Ayton trade to NO.

I am of the belief that they are not targeting long term contracts as they are aiming to be a big FA player summer 2026. (This is a reason I believe Grant didnt happen - albeit Cronin asking price could be the reason too).

Assuming the above, and taking a look at the poor play of DLo and Gabe - I wonder if they would see CJ as an idea fit. Improves them now as a better shooter and overall player than DLo and they could dump Gabe's dead weight. He expires summer 2026 keeping that (likely) cap plan intact as well.

PDX OUT - Ayton, Walker (Or anyone cheap - we just cant make the trade w/o sending 2 guys)
PDX IN - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP

NO OUT - CJ
NO IN - Ayton

LAL OUT - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP
LAL IN - CJ, Walker

PDX - we kill the C logjam and cut 2025/26 salary from ~34M (Ayton) to ~ 11M (Gabe). Also get a swing on a SRP in a likely deep draft. In this scenario we buy out DLo.
NO - They need a big and get a big. Same contract amt basically and same years. A shakeup for a team that is struggling.
LAL - They add a on court and locker room upgrade at G in CJ who also expires in 2026 allowing them to continue w/ a cap space plan.

Its not pretty, but I sure think it works.

[mighty_duck]

I wonder if the Rockets would want Ayton? Adams is not looking healthy at all this year for them, so they could really use a big.

Adams, Smith Jr, Green for Ayton and Walker works. They get an upgrade at C, blazers clear cash and kick tires on Jabari Smith Jr.

Houston has Sengun at C, so Ayton would be a severely overpriced bench player there. And I doubt they give up on Smith Jr. so quickly just because of a weak start to this season.

[Norm2953]

TL is indeed the perfect mentor for Clingan.

Move Ayton for whatever return but the closer he gets to being an expiring contract should yield
something of value

[BlazersBroncos]

I wonder if the Rockets would want Ayton? Adams is not looking healthy at all this year for them, so they could really use a big.

Adams, Smith Jr, Green for Ayton and Walker works. They get an upgrade at C, blazers clear cash and kick tires on Jabari Smith Jr.

Houston has Sengun at C, so Ayton would be a severely overpriced bench player there. And I doubt they give up on Smith Jr. so quickly just because of a weak start to this season.

Ya I dont see it with HOU and Ayton. They just paid their kids a ton - Sengun is a C. They would be locked into Ayton as a backup C at 34M per year.

Not to mention Smith JR. Even if they had interest it would be Adams, Green and fillers. We wont get a youngster with potential in a Ayton move.

[Butter]

I am wondering about LAL in a Ayton trade to NO.

I am of the belief that they are not targeting long term contracts as they are aiming to be a big FA player summer 2026. (This is a reason I believe Grant didnt happen - albeit Cronin asking price could be the reason too).

Assuming the above, and taking a look at the poor play of DLo and Gabe - I wonder if they would see CJ as an idea fit. Improves them now as a better shooter and overall player than DLo and they could dump Gabe's dead weight. He expires summer 2026 keeping that (likely) cap plan intact as well.

PDX OUT - Ayton, Walker (Or anyone cheap - we just cant make the trade w/o sending 2 guys)
PDX IN - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP

NO OUT - CJ
NO IN - Ayton

LAL OUT - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP
LAL IN - CJ, Walker

PDX - we kill the C logjam and cut 2025/26 salary from ~34M (Ayton) to ~ 11M (Gabe). Also get a swing on a SRP in a likely deep draft. In this scenario we buy out DLo.
NO - They need a big and get a big. Same contract amt basically and same years. A shakeup for a team that is struggling.
LAL - They add a on court and locker room upgrade at G in CJ who also expires in 2026 allowing them to continue w/ a cap space plan.

Its not pretty, but I sure think it works.

I was looking at something like this with CJ going to LA.

IF the Blazers fix the NO center issue, I feel like they'd need to send more value to Portland

[BlazersBroncos]

I am wondering about LAL in a Ayton trade to NO.

I am of the belief that they are not targeting long term contracts as they are aiming to be a big FA player summer 2026. (This is a reason I believe Grant didnt happen - albeit Cronin asking price could be the reason too).

Assuming the above, and taking a look at the poor play of DLo and Gabe - I wonder if they would see CJ as an idea fit. Improves them now as a better shooter and overall player than DLo and they could dump Gabe's dead weight. He expires summer 2026 keeping that (likely) cap plan intact as well.

PDX OUT - Ayton, Walker (Or anyone cheap - we just cant make the trade w/o sending 2 guys)
PDX IN - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP

NO OUT - CJ
NO IN - Ayton

LAL OUT - DLo, Vincent, Higher of LAC/LAL 2025 SRP
LAL IN - CJ, Walker

PDX - we kill the C logjam and cut 2025/26 salary from ~34M (Ayton) to ~ 11M (Gabe). Also get a swing on a SRP in a likely deep draft. In this scenario we buy out DLo.
NO - They need a big and get a big. Same contract amt basically and same years. A shakeup for a team that is struggling.
LAL - They add a on court and locker room upgrade at G in CJ who also expires in 2026 allowing them to continue w/ a cap space plan.

Its not pretty, but I sure think it works.

I was looking at something like this with CJ going to LA.

IF the Blazers fix the NO center issue, I feel like they'd need to send more value to Portland

I dont see it. At this point they might just consiter the season a wash - wouldnt be crazy to also just cut PDX out and move CJ for the expiring DLo and Gabe - they would be 2025 FA players in that case (Assuming BI just expires).

They might send us a crap SRP but I cant see anything more - what did you have in mind?

[PDXKnight]

Clingan is the best big man prospect we have had since lamarcus Aldridge and I don't think it's close. You bring ayton off the bench if you keep him imo. Not sure if that's what we will do but I do feel with his defensive presence and lead by example personality he needs to be the guy starting and likely he will be one of the foremost emotional leaders moving forward.

I lean towards needing at minimum a lotto protected first for TimeLord. If we get that offer it's hard for me to turn down, if we get a couple seconds I'm happy keeping him.