Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 7

[Bob8]

That's the point, Kyrie is still the replacement player, it's a vindication for the past criticism.
Basically once Luka got competent defense and healthy roster around, even when it was challenged shooting wise, he had an off the chart on off...

No, Kyrie is struggling immensely with lineups without Luka. He has disastrous, far the worse on/off of his career and Mavs are losing games because of that. Point of staggering Luka and Kyrie is to prevent exactly what is happening this year. Kidd should make big changes in lineups in which Kyrie and Gafford are playing. Unfortunately it looks to me that analytics are not very appreciated in Mavs coaching staff.

I think it's just the injuries, and loss of transition options, but I'm just going by guesses, Kyrie isn't a half court PG, to be effective he needs to push, and the personnel didn't allow it.

Lineups with him are worse than Luka's in offensive side, but the biggest difference is made in D. Mavs are 14.7 better in D, when he's off court. Some of this number is probably to small sample size, but other is probably that his lineups are a lot smaller than Luka's. That's is exactly the thing coach should correct and play him with different players.

[Mavrelous]

No, Kyrie is struggling immensely with lineups without Luka. He has disastrous, far the worse on/off of his career and Mavs are losing games because of that. Point of staggering Luka and Kyrie is to prevent exactly what is happening this year. Kidd should make big changes in lineups in which Kyrie and Gafford are playing. Unfortunately it looks to me that analytics are not very appreciated in Mavs coaching staff.

I think it's just the injuries, and loss of transition options, but I'm just going by guesses, Kyrie isn't a half court PG, to be effective he needs to push, and the personnel didn't allow it.

Lineups with him are worse than Luka's in offensive side, but the biggest difference is made in D. Mavs are 14.7 better in D, when he's off court. Some of this number is probably to small sample size, but other is probably that his lineups are a lot smaller than Luka's. That's is exactly the thing coach should correct and play him with different players.

Where do you see ratings for lineup options? NBA.com is very limited, and there was a site I used and I can't find it anymore...

[Bob8]

I think it's just the injuries, and loss of transition options, but I'm just going by guesses, Kyrie isn't a half court PG, to be effective he needs to push, and the personnel didn't allow it.

Lineups with him are worse than Luka's in offensive side, but the biggest difference is made in D. Mavs are 14.7 better in D, when he's off court. Some of this number is probably to small sample size, but other is probably that his lineups are a lot smaller than Luka's. That's is exactly the thing coach should correct and play him with different players.

Where do you see ratings for lineup options? NBA.com is very limited, and there was a site I used and I can't find it anymore...

You have everything on Nba.com. Just go on Mavs/lineups/advanced

you have teams on/off, Mavs/on/off/court/summary

I don't know why I can't post the right link with my phone. It paste just Mavs page

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

Just go on stats and then choose, what I have written.

[Mavrelous]

Lineups with him are worse than Luka's in offensive side, but the biggest difference is made in D. Mavs are 14.7 better in D, when he's off court. Some of this number is probably to small sample size, but other is probably that his lineups are a lot smaller than Luka's. That's is exactly the thing coach should correct and play him with different players.

Where do you see ratings for lineup options? NBA.com is very limited, and there was a site I used and I can't find it anymore...

You have everything on Nba.com. Just go on Mavs/lineups/advanced

you have teams on/off, Mavs/on/off/court/summary

I don't know why I can't post the right link with my phone. It paste just Mavs page

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

Just go on stats and then choose, what I have written.

How do you have certain player off, like if I want Luka/Gafford lineups but with Kyrie off

[Mavrelous]

The Kyrie data is just noise IMO, the most glaring problem is that the starting lineup is bad, any change on this lineup with normal rotation is a big positive...
Lively should start with the big 3 and then they should be always staggered and only 2 of them on the floor.

[Bob8]

Where do you see ratings for lineup options? NBA.com is very limited, and there was a site I used and I can't find it anymore...

You have everything on Nba.com. Just go on Mavs/lineups/advanced

you have teams on/off, Mavs/on/off/court/summary

I don't know why I can't post the right link with my phone. It paste just Mavs page

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

Just go on stats and then choose, what I have written.

How do you have certain player off, like if I want Luka/Gafford lineups but with Kyrie off

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

[Mavrelous]

You have everything on Nba.com. Just go on Mavs/lineups/advanced

you have teams on/off, Mavs/on/off/court/summary

I don't know why I can't post the right link with my phone. It paste just Mavs page

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612742/mavericks/

Just go on stats and then choose, what I have written.

How do you have certain player off, like if I want Luka/Gafford lineups but with Kyrie off

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

[Bob8]

How do you have certain player off, like if I want Luka/Gafford lineups but with Kyrie off

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

That's not exactly difficult to do without filter.

[Mavrelous]

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

That's not exactly difficult to do without filter.

Hey, some of us are lazy...

[Archx]

How do you have certain player off, like if I want Luka/Gafford lineups but with Kyrie off

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

This is an interesting one.

L. Doncic| D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -11.1

...same lineup but Lively instead of Gafford.

L. Doncic | K. Irving | D. Lively | K. Thompson | P. Washington +4.4

then.... 4-man example without Luka

D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -9.9

...same lineup with Lively.

D. Lively | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington +6.2


Basically what Bob is trying to tell everyone here. Gafford is not working so well so far due to multiple factors. Lively can cover more ground and is a better rebounder is basically a simple explanation.

[daoneandonly]

I don't understand the question. You have all lineups that actually played.

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

This is an interesting one.

L. Doncic| D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -11.1

...same lineup but Lively instead of Gafford.

L. Doncic | K. Irving | D. Lively | K. Thompson | P. Washington +4.4

then.... 4-man example without Luka

D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -9.9

...same lineup with Lively.

D. Lively | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington +6.2


Basically what Bob is trying to tell everyone here. Gafford is not working so well so far due to multiple factors. Lively can cover more ground and is a better rebounder is basically a simple explanation.

I don't understand the rationale for not starting Lively. I think we absolutely still need Gaff, given that D-Live seems to be injury-prone, but he should be starting with Gaff coming off the bench.

[Archx]

I want to query all lineups that have Kyrie + Gafford but also Luka on the bench, this filtering ability doesn't exist.

This is an interesting one.

L. Doncic| D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -11.1

...same lineup but Lively instead of Gafford.

L. Doncic | K. Irving | D. Lively | K. Thompson | P. Washington +4.4

then.... 4-man example without Luka

D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -9.9

...same lineup with Lively.

D. Lively | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington +6.2


Basically what Bob is trying to tell everyone here. Gafford is not working so well so far due to multiple factors. Lively can cover more ground and is a better rebounder is basically a simple explanation.

I don't understand the rationale for not starting Lively. I think we absolutely still need Gaff, given that D-Live seems to be injury-prone, but he should be starting with Gaff coming off the bench.

My best guess is Gaff is more experienced and Kidd wants Lively to learn slowly, since we know Lively likes to foul a lot. And that can be an issue if you put him against opposing best wings/center. Gaff is also slightly stronger but can not cover enough ground to guard quicker guards.
My other guess is, Kidd doesn't want to anger veterans, probably same reason why Klay is also starting.

But then again, nothing is black and white with this coach, it's always some BS lame excuse.

[Bob8]

This is an interesting one.

L. Doncic| D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -11.1

...same lineup but Lively instead of Gafford.

L. Doncic | K. Irving | D. Lively | K. Thompson | P. Washington +4.4

then.... 4-man example without Luka

D. Gafford | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington -9.9

...same lineup with Lively.

D. Lively | K. Irving | K. Thompson | P. Washington +6.2


Basically what Bob is trying to tell everyone here. Gafford is not working so well so far due to multiple factors. Lively can cover more ground and is a better rebounder is basically a simple explanation.

I don't understand the rationale for not starting Lively. I think we absolutely still need Gaff, given that D-Live seems to be injury-prone, but he should be starting with Gaff coming off the bench.

My best guess is Gaff is more experienced and Kidd wants Lively to learn slowly, since we know Lively likes to foul a lot. And that can be an issue if you put him against opposing best wings/center. Gaff is also slightly stronger but can not cover enough ground to guard quicker guards.
My other guess is, Kidd doesn't want to anger veterans, probably same reason why Klay is also starting.

But then again, nothing is black and white with this coach, it's always some BS lame excuse.

They promised Klay to start, that won't change.

Starting lineup struggling is not only about Gafford, although Kidd should for sure change something and play Lively, it's more about Mavs still playing without hierarchy in Q1. Mavs always started the best, when Q1 was about Luka and Kyrie dominating Q4. Now they play like they would meet in the park and everyone tries something in Q1, which doesn't and won't work. They need to start doing what they're doing best and that's Luka's pick&roll in half court.

[41Dirk41]

We can't put Klay on the bench, right now Naji/PJ/Grimes are not a theat for 3s.

I don't think Kidd will change S5 at least until game 30, we should know his way of working.

I'm agree con Bob, last game first 3 Mavs attack were Klay iso play. I could not believe my eyes. OMG.
Mavs played like Rucker Park, no surprise we already lost 6 games.

I hope someone tells to Kidd and players to wake up.

[Archx]

I don't understand the rationale for not starting Lively. I think we absolutely still need Gaff, given that D-Live seems to be injury-prone, but he should be starting with Gaff coming off the bench.

My best guess is Gaff is more experienced and Kidd wants Lively to learn slowly, since we know Lively likes to foul a lot. And that can be an issue if you put him against opposing best wings/center. Gaff is also slightly stronger but can not cover enough ground to guard quicker guards.
My other guess is, Kidd doesn't want to anger veterans, probably same reason why Klay is also starting.

But then again, nothing is black and white with this coach, it's always some BS lame excuse.

They promised Klay to start, that won't change.

Starting lineup struggling is not only about Gafford, although Kidd should for sure change something and play Lively, it's more about Mavs still playing without hierarchy in Q1. Mavs always started the best, when Q1 was about Luka and Kyrie dominating Q4. Now they play like they would meet in the park and everyone tries something in Q1, which doesn't and won't work. They need to start doing what they're doing best and that's Luka's pick&roll in half court.

Yeah, Kidd is experimenting with something.... It sounds good on paper but Mavs in general have no real off ball movement schemes to begin with. Now you have more and more Mavs fans even calling to trade Doncic. I mean, it's utterly ridiculous what's happening at the moment in Mavs general community.

Kidd is simply trying to fix something that wasn't broken and everyone picked the wrong guy to put the entire blame on. It's crazy,

Read on Twitter

[41Dirk41]

Trade Doncic???

Some Mavs fan deserved coach Kidd medicine all life...

[Mavrelous]

I'm disgusted...
I just finished listening to the hoop collective episode on the MVP straw poll, Tim Bontemps went out of his way multiple times, practically scream it, to make these points:
1. Luka can't join the top tier of MVP candidates, he can't match their numbers.
2. Luka has better supporting cast than Giannis.
3. Luka is a worse player than Giannis.

I went and listened to last year podcast on the same subject, he does mention that Luka also doesn't have a chance to join Embiid and Jokic, why? Team record.
Mavs had better record at this point last year than Bucks/Nuggets now.
Kyrie/Lively missed lots of games, no menrion of the dreadful roster around him
Absolutely clear agenda being pushed by ESPN lead analyst that Luka isn't MVP 2 years in a row, same guy who went out of his way to push Embiid's MVP case.

I miss Zach Lowe...

[daoneandonly]

I'm disgusted...
I just finished listening to the hoop collective episode on the MVP straw poll, Tim Bontemps went out of his way multiple times, practically scream it, to make these points:
1. Luka can't join the top tier of MVP candidates, he can't match their numbers.
2. Luka has better supporting cast than Giannis.
3. Luka is a worse player than Giannis.

I went and listened to last year podcast on the same subject, he does mention that Luka also doesn't have a chance to join Embiid and Jokic, why? Team record.
Mavs had better record at this point last year than Bucks/Nuggets now.
Kyrie/Lively missed lots of games, no menrion of the dreadful roster around him
Absolutely clear agenda being pushed by ESPN lead analyst that Luka isn't MVP 2 years in a row, same guy who went out of his way to push Embiid's MVP case.

I miss Zach Lowe...

Espn is garbage with Malika Andrew's, Shams, and Perk

But it could all be moot. At this point, Luka may not qualify with the minimum games played

[Mavrelous]

I'm disgusted...
I just finished listening to the hoop collective episode on the MVP straw poll, Tim Bontemps went out of his way multiple times, practically scream it, to make these points:
1. Luka can't join the top tier of MVP candidates, he can't match their numbers.
2. Luka has better supporting cast than Giannis.
3. Luka is a worse player than Giannis.

I went and listened to last year podcast on the same subject, he does mention that Luka also doesn't have a chance to join Embiid and Jokic, why? Team record.
Mavs had better record at this point last year than Bucks/Nuggets now.
Kyrie/Lively missed lots of games, no menrion of the dreadful roster around him
Absolutely clear agenda being pushed by ESPN lead analyst that Luka isn't MVP 2 years in a row, same guy who went out of his way to push Embiid's MVP case.

I miss Zach Lowe...

Espn is garbage with Malika Andrew's, Shams, and Perk

But it could all be moot. At this point, Luka may not qualify with the minimum games played

It's not about Luka winning, I son't want him to win it, but about the clear push by the leading sport network, absolute garbage.
I have no clue what's behind this...

[41Dirk41]

I'm disgusted...
I just finished listening to the hoop collective episode on the MVP straw poll, Tim Bontemps went out of his way multiple times, practically scream it, to make these points:
1. Luka can't join the top tier of MVP candidates, he can't match their numbers.
2. Luka has better supporting cast than Giannis.
3. Luka is a worse player than Giannis.

I went and listened to last year podcast on the same subject, he does mention that Luka also doesn't have a chance to join Embiid and Jokic, why? Team record.
Mavs had better record at this point last year than Bucks/Nuggets now.
Kyrie/Lively missed lots of games, no menrion of the dreadful roster around him
Absolutely clear agenda being pushed by ESPN lead analyst that Luka isn't MVP 2 years in a row, same guy who went out of his way to push Embiid's MVP case.

I miss Zach Lowe...

Espn is garbage with Malika Andrew's, Shams, and Perk

But it could all be moot. At this point, Luka may not qualify with the minimum games played

Agree

The decline in spectators is also due in part to the technical inadequacy of the programs that talk about basketball... ESPN is trash.