Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai!

[Duffman100]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

We've had like 50 page threads on guys who were fringe NBA players (Dowtin etc).

Raptor Forum is built different.

[YogurtProducer]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

[Scase]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

Yeah this belongs in the Dick thread.

[Chandan]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

[YogurtProducer]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

I mean u guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently.

I don't even necessarily disagree - but it has more to do with strength/weight than it does length.

I just got caught up in the "you need a 7 foot wingspan to play the 3" comment because that is outlandish.

[Duffman100]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

[Psubs]

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

I mean u guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently.

I don't even necessarily disagree - but it has more to do with strength/weight than it does length.

I just got caught up in the "you need a 7 foot wingspan to play the 3" comment because that is outlandish.

OKC got the other Jalen (not Jaylin) Williams playing C.

[Thaddy]

If we traded RJ for an actual forward with a 7+ foot wingspan Agbaji would look even better on defense. The offense he's shown isn't bad, he's similar to Gradey where he's got a great mid range game but it can't really be shown unless he develops a better handle and attacks more in the half court.

[Psubs]

I can't believe we have multiple pages and hours of research dedicated to the major difference between 1-2 inches in length.

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

Maybe he ends up like OG Jr? Agbaji was drafted in the lottery.

[Chandan]

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

On isolated plays lowry can stop centers. I think if banchero and giannas draw ochai as a mismatch ochai could come out ahead from some element of surprise, they might get thrown off from his speed or tenacity , he might even bother them for a whole game. As a designated defender though it is going to be trouble. Also those guys will 80% grab the offensive board over him. (it's kind of why I dislike Fred, so many times I've seen a solid defensive effort for 24 seconds and the opponent just grab the 2nd chance points because they have a foot taller reach. Those are back breakers)

[Duffman100]

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

On isolated plays lowry can stop centers. I think if banchero and giannas draw ochai as a mismatch ochai could come out ahead from some element of surprise, they might get thrown off from his speed or tenacity , he might even bother them for a whole game. As a designated defender though it is going to be trouble. Also those guys will 80% grab the offensive board over him.

But we've seen him do it for a whole game. He wasn't bad the other night and he shut down Banchero in a game last year. If he's doing that against "PFs", he's not overmatched by your every day SF.

Do I want a bigger defender to let Ochai grab the Donovan Mitchell's of the world, sure?

Is he overmatched by a typical SF in the NBA? I wouldn't say so.

[Chandan]

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

On isolated plays lowry can stop centers. I think if banchero and giannas draw ochai as a mismatch ochai could come out ahead from some element of surprise, they might get thrown off from his speed or tenacity , he might even bother them for a whole game. As a designated defender though it is going to be trouble. Also those guys will 80% grab the offensive board over him.

But we've seen him do it for a whole game. He wasn't bad the other night and he shut down Banchero in a game last year. If he's doing that against "PFs", he's not overmatched by your every day SF.

Do I want a bigger defender to let Ochai grab the Donovan Mitchell's of the world, sure?

Is he overmatched by a typical SF in the NBA? I wouldn't say so.

I watched Ochai get demolished by a 40 year old LeBron, and you will say LeBron is the greatest player of all time. You say Ochai gave Banchero trouble last year, and I will say banchero was a second year player last year maybe he just had an off night, and giannas has no bag. So maybe it's somewhere in the middle and that Ochai does an "okay" job is that he's no OG?

[Duffman100]

On isolated plays lowry can stop centers. I think if banchero and giannas draw ochai as a mismatch ochai could come out ahead from some element of surprise, they might get thrown off from his speed or tenacity , he might even bother them for a whole game. As a designated defender though it is going to be trouble. Also those guys will 80% grab the offensive board over him.

But we've seen him do it for a whole game. He wasn't bad the other night and he shut down Banchero in a game last year. If he's doing that against "PFs", he's not overmatched by your every day SF.

Do I want a bigger defender to let Ochai grab the Donovan Mitchell's of the world, sure?

Is he overmatched by a typical SF in the NBA? I wouldn't say so.

I watched Ochai get demolished by a 40 year old LeBron, and you will say LeBron is the greatest player of all time. You say Ochai gave Banchero trouble last year, and I will say banchero was a second year player last year maybe he just had an off night, and giannas has no bag. So maybe it's somewhere in the middle and that Ochai does an "okay" job is that he's no OG?

I mean, everyone still gets destroyed by 40 year old Lebron.

but yeah I'm good with saying he's 'okay' and not OG. that sounds like a good compromise.

[Scase]

and we still cannot agree on the facts

But hey - page 50 of a thread about a guy who probably tops out as a good rotation player. Thats Raptors RealGM at its finest

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

Small sample size for sure, but I would not consider what he did as "decent" against Giannis.

They matched up 1:1, for 4 FGA that game, and ignoring the end of clock heave, Ochai had zero impact on his ability to score.

Giannis basically keeps him at arms length with no difficulty and rolls off him to the rim.
Giannis backs him down with 1 bump and gets passed him with no effort, Jak is the reason he missed.
Giannis takes Ochai from centre court with zero issue, backs him down like he's not even there, then rolls right off him. Ochai even has his feet dug in, and Giannis just bumps him and he moves back.

This isn't even a shot at Ochai, Giannis is a tough cover, but I don't think he is cut out to play against the premier 4's that have the size advantage. He's just physically too small and gets bumped around easily, it's why I think he's more cut out for guarding 2/3's, they are more in his weight class.

Here's him against Lebron in the last game against the Lakers, he makes an admirable attempt and with Brunos help gets him to miss the initial attempt, but he gets backed down so easily.

He is just too small for these guys, and I think these are what we will need more help defending against, unless the plan is to have Scottie handle that all the time, which I'm not a huge fan of since it pulls him from being a help defender.

[YogurtProducer]

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

Small sample size for sure, but I would not consider what he did as "decent" against Giannis.

They matched up 1:1, for 4 FGA that game, and ignoring the end of clock heave, Ochai had zero impact on his ability to score.

Giannis basically keeps him at arms length with no difficulty and rolls off him to the rim.
Giannis backs him down with 1 bump and gets passed him with no effort, Jak is the reason he missed.
Giannis takes Ochai from centre court with zero issue, backs him down like he's not even there, then rolls right off him. Ochai even has his feet dug in, and Giannis just bumps him and he moves back.

This isn't even a shot at Ochai, Giannis is a tough cover, but I don't think he is cut out to play against the premier 4's that have the size advantage. He's just physically too small and gets bumped around easily, it's why I think he's more cut out for guarding 2/3's, they are more in his weight class.

Here's him against Lebron in the last game against the Lakers, he makes an admirable attempt and with Brunos help gets him to miss the initial attempt, but he gets backed down so easily.

He is just too small for these guys, and I think these are what we will need more help defending against, unless the plan is to have Scottie handle that all the time, which I'm not a huge fan of since it pulls him from being a help defender.

Original conversation was if he can guard 3's. Brining up Giannis who is bigger than some 5's is not a great example.

No one can guard giannis.

[YogurtProducer]

On isolated plays lowry can stop centers. I think if banchero and giannas draw ochai as a mismatch ochai could come out ahead from some element of surprise, they might get thrown off from his speed or tenacity , he might even bother them for a whole game. As a designated defender though it is going to be trouble. Also those guys will 80% grab the offensive board over him.

But we've seen him do it for a whole game. He wasn't bad the other night and he shut down Banchero in a game last year. If he's doing that against "PFs", he's not overmatched by your every day SF.

Do I want a bigger defender to let Ochai grab the Donovan Mitchell's of the world, sure?

Is he overmatched by a typical SF in the NBA? I wouldn't say so.

I watched Ochai get demolished by a 40 year old LeBron, and you will say LeBron is the greatest player of all time. You say Ochai gave Banchero trouble last year, and I will say banchero was a second year player last year maybe he just had an off night, and giannas has no bag. So maybe it's somewhere in the middle and that Ochai does an "okay" job is that he's no OG?

LBJ has had 27/6/10 and 19/10/16. I would not say that is demolishing. That is just what happens when you play against a guy like LBJ.

[Duffman100]

You guys are arguing over 1 - 2 inch but the eye test really does show that ochai is a bit too small to guard other SF consistently. For me anyways.

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

Small sample size for sure, but I would not consider what he did as "decent" against Giannis.

They matched up 1:1, for 4 FGA that game, and ignoring the end of clock heave, Ochai had zero impact on his ability to score.

Giannis basically keeps him at arms length with no difficulty and rolls off him to the rim.
Giannis backs him down with 1 bump and gets passed him with no effort, Jak is the reason he missed.
Giannis takes Ochai from centre court with zero issue, backs him down like he's not even there, then rolls right off him. Ochai even has his feet dug in, and Giannis just bumps him and he moves back.

This isn't even a shot at Ochai, Giannis is a tough cover, but I don't think he is cut out to play against the premier 4's that have the size advantage. He's just physically too small and gets bumped around easily, it's why I think he's more cut out for guarding 2/3's, they are more in his weight class.

Here's him against Lebron in the last game against the Lakers, he makes an admirable attempt and with Brunos help gets him to miss the initial attempt, but he gets backed down so easily.

He is just too small for these guys, and I think these are what we will need more help defending against, unless the plan is to have Scottie handle that all the time, which I'm not a huge fan of since it pulls him from being a help defender.

From watching the game, he did a great job of denying him the ball, forcing him into double teams, picking him up in transition. Forcing 4 turnovers.

Giannis only having 12 shot attempts had a lot to do with the work Ochai put in.

[Scase]

I don't see that. I've seen him give Banchero a rough guard and he did pretty decently against Giannis.

I think he likely struggles more to guard small ball 4s and 5s. I don't seem him having issues unless it's someone like Durant.

Small sample size for sure, but I would not consider what he did as "decent" against Giannis.

They matched up 1:1, for 4 FGA that game, and ignoring the end of clock heave, Ochai had zero impact on his ability to score.

Giannis basically keeps him at arms length with no difficulty and rolls off him to the rim.
Giannis backs him down with 1 bump and gets passed him with no effort, Jak is the reason he missed.
Giannis takes Ochai from centre court with zero issue, backs him down like he's not even there, then rolls right off him. Ochai even has his feet dug in, and Giannis just bumps him and he moves back.

This isn't even a shot at Ochai, Giannis is a tough cover, but I don't think he is cut out to play against the premier 4's that have the size advantage. He's just physically too small and gets bumped around easily, it's why I think he's more cut out for guarding 2/3's, they are more in his weight class.

Here's him against Lebron in the last game against the Lakers, he makes an admirable attempt and with Brunos help gets him to miss the initial attempt, but he gets backed down so easily.

He is just too small for these guys, and I think these are what we will need more help defending against, unless the plan is to have Scottie handle that all the time, which I'm not a huge fan of since it pulls him from being a help defender.

From watching the game, he did a great job of denying him the ball, forcing him into double teams, picking him up in transition. Forcing 4 turnovers.

Giannis only having 12 shot attempts had a lot to do with the work Ochai put in.

I guess overall you could call it decent, but the actual defence when he had the ball was not good. Again, not a knock on him, he's just too small, so I think people need to be more realistic with what they expect him to do. This team still needs an OG sized 3+D.

Eh, you might wanna check those TOs 1 was a charge, another he had nothing to do with it at all and GD knocked it loose after Ochai got beat, 1 was just a bad pass with no pressure, and the last one was a good play by him.

Like I said, he wasn't awful or anything, he did his best but Ochai was getting bullied any time he was directly guarding him cause of his size. Until Scottie is back, he's pretty much our only option to guard these types of players.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

PJ Tucker use to be considered small, he's 6'5", just like Ochai. However, Tucker weighs 245lbs vs Ochai at 215lbs. He's to small, he gets dislodged easily. He's a SG, not a SF.

[Dexjackson]

But we've seen him do it for a whole game. He wasn't bad the other night and he shut down Banchero in a game last year. If he's doing that against "PFs", he's not overmatched by your every day SF.

Do I want a bigger defender to let Ochai grab the Donovan Mitchell's of the world, sure?

Is he overmatched by a typical SF in the NBA? I wouldn't say so.

I watched Ochai get demolished by a 40 year old LeBron, and you will say LeBron is the greatest player of all time. You say Ochai gave Banchero trouble last year, and I will say banchero was a second year player last year maybe he just had an off night, and giannas has no bag. So maybe it's somewhere in the middle and that Ochai does an "okay" job is that he's no OG?

LBJ has had 27/6/10 and 19/10/16. I would not say that is demolishing. That is just what happens when you play against a guy like LBJ.

You noted "a 40 year old Lebron" like he's on his last leg. He's averaging 24.3/8.1/9.4 for the season. I would say that Ochai did as well against LBJ as other bigger wings do guarding him. Ochai isn't the problem defensively. He's being given the toughest matchup every night and has to play with pilon's such as Battle, Dick, Barrett, Quick, etc. He's not getting much help or support.