Trade offers for Darius Garland?

[Euphonetiks]

Edwards and Mitchell are comparable players. The "flaw" with Cleveland's backcourt would likely not be considered the same flaw in Minnesota. Instead, to your point, you would have your second creator/scorer that would help alleviate the offensive load, e.g. why Cleveland acquired Mitchell in the first place.

The "flaw" of the Mitchell/Garland backcourt appears to be two-fold:

(1) two small guards is bad for defensive purposes
(2) two guards who both want the ball in their hands and the offense to run through them will have conflict

The first problem is an issue from a team building perspective. Small offensively focused guards need to be hidden on defense. It is difficult to hide two of them. The second problem is an issue from the players' perspective. You can't have two players be 'the guy' on one team. One has to defer and accept the #2 role. From the reports of Klutch wanting to meet with Altman if the Cavs re-sign Mitchell, suggests the second issue may be the bigger problem.

Edwards helps with the 1st problem, but if Garland really wants to run his own team, he needs to go to somewhere like WAS. I do not think Edwards will defer to Garland with the game on the line. And as Edwards grows, I can see him wanting to initiate the offense more, especially in the regular season when his defense doesn't have to be at 100%.

If Irving and Doncic can make the duoship work, Garland and Edwards most certainly can. More so after this playoffs for both of them. Hit across the head where they are and where they want to be.

Same could be said about Mitchell and Garland, but alas here we are. Ky had accepted a #2 role before and after his Brooklyn exit, he was on a pretty short leash.

[mcfly1204]

The "flaw" of the Mitchell/Garland backcourt appears to be two-fold:

(1) two small guards is bad for defensive purposes
(2) two guards who both want the ball in their hands and the offense to run through them will have conflict

The first problem is an issue from a team building perspective. Small offensively focused guards need to be hidden on defense. It is difficult to hide two of them. The second problem is an issue from the players' perspective. You can't have two players be 'the guy' on one team. One has to defer and accept the #2 role. From the reports of Klutch wanting to meet with Altman if the Cavs re-sign Mitchell, suggests the second issue may be the bigger problem.

Edwards helps with the 1st problem, but if Garland really wants to run his own team, he needs to go to somewhere like WAS. I do not think Edwards will defer to Garland with the game on the line. And as Edwards grows, I can see him wanting to initiate the offense more, especially in the regular season when his defense doesn't have to be at 100%.

If Irving and Doncic can make the duoship work, Garland and Edwards most certainly can. More so after this playoffs for both of them. Hit across the head where they are and where they want to be.

Same could be said about Mitchell and Garland, but alas here we are. Ky had accepted a #2 role before and after his Brooklyn exit, he was on a pretty short leash.

I'm inclined to think the Klutch bit is BS. Garland is not an alpha, he's actually gotten flak for not looking for his own shot more often.

[Euphonetiks]

I'm inclined to think the Klutch bit is BS. Garland is not an alpha, he's actually gotten flak for not looking for his own shot more often.

It was reported by Shams, confirmed by Windhorst, and is perfectly in line with the Klutch playbook. Cleveland fans may be inclined to dismiss it, but it's very likley not BS.

[Dadouv47]

Garland to NOLA could be fun with Zion. Ingram and how many picks?

[mcfly1204]

I'm inclined to think the Klutch bit is BS. Garland is not an alpha, he's actually gotten flak for not looking for his own shot more often.

It was reported by Shams, confirmed by Windhorst, and is perfectly in line with the Klutch playbook. Cleveland fans may be inclined to dismiss it, but it's very likley not BS.

My point is that it sounds like Klutch speaking out of turn more than anything. I assume the rebuttal is that Garland is the client, and they are not going to do something like that without his knowledge, or more so blessing. That said, we've seen zero indications in Cleveland of Garland not wanting to play next to Mitchell.

[Euphonetiks]

I'm inclined to think the Klutch bit is BS. Garland is not an alpha, he's actually gotten flak for not looking for his own shot more often.

It was reported by Shams, confirmed by Windhorst, and is perfectly in line with the Klutch playbook. Cleveland fans may be inclined to dismiss it, but it's very likley not BS.

My point is that it sounds like Klutch speaking out of turn more than anything. I assume the rebuttal is that Garland is the client, and they are not going to do something like that without his knowledge, or more so blessing. That said, we've seen zero indications in Cleveland of Garland not wanting to play next to Mitchell.

With all due respect, I think that is wishful thinking. Klutch doesn't speak out of turn. They offer cover for their clients. If they are meeting with the Cleveland FO to demand a trade, that tactic was approved by Garland.

[toooskies]

It was reported by Shams, confirmed by Windhorst, and is perfectly in line with the Klutch playbook. Cleveland fans may be inclined to dismiss it, but it's very likley not BS.

My point is that it sounds like Klutch speaking out of turn more than anything. I assume the rebuttal is that Garland is the client, and they are not going to do something like that without his knowledge, or more so blessing. That said, we've seen zero indications in Cleveland of Garland not wanting to play next to Mitchell.

With all due respect, I think that is wishful thinking. Klutch doesn't speak out of turn. They offer cover for their clients. If they are meeting with the Cleveland FO to demand a trade, that tactic was approved by Garland.

Did Garland want that bit of detail out an hour after the season concluded? If so, that's a fun plane ride home with the team for Garland.

It doesn't serve any meaningful purpose for Garland except to either a) drive Mitchell away or b) make the Cavs choose him over Mitchell. If he actually wanted out of Cleveland, he'd have waited for Mitchell to extend before Shams put this out there.

[jbk1234]

Wait and see if we hire Atkinson. There's a chance that Garland doesn't hit the market this summer (even if we extend Mitchell).

[K_chile22]

IDK if anyone has had this idea already but something around jimmy for Garland? Think Miami owes for trading an older player even though he's better, but as a general framework I like the idea if Cleveland is going all in with Mitchell

[penbeast0]

...if Garland really wants to run his own team, he needs to go to somewhere like WAS....

Wizards are a bad fit unless Cleveland wants to take Poole and his salary back (and something like Avdija or Coulibaly, not suggesting straight up). Poole showed played next to Tyus Jones that he needs to be the PG to be anything resembling effective.

[toooskies]

IDK if anyone has had this idea already but something around jimmy for Garland? Think Miami owes for trading an older player even though he's better, but as a general framework I like the idea if Cleveland is going all in with Mitchell

He wants a supermax extension, he's 35, he's injury-prone, and he's an inconsistent shooter which makes him a tough fit with Allen/Mobley. Way too much of a risk.

And for Miami's part that forces them to make room in their backcourt among Rozier and Herro.

[Mr Loggins]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

[zimpy27]

Why are Cavs wanting to trade Garland? They seem to be rolling right now.

But if they are keen to move on then I think Lakers would offer Reaves+DLo+Christie for Garland

[jbk1234]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

Why bump this? If Cavs fans weren't happy with these offers this summer with Garland coming off an injury, why would they be happy with them now?

[Mr Loggins]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

Why bump this? If Cavs fans weren't happy with these offers this summer with Garland coming off an injury, why would they be happy with them now?

you mean you’re not interested in D’Angelo Russel or a John Collins/Jordan Clarkson package?

It was the “eating crow” thread on the GB. Reminded me of this thread and it is amusing to see the offers in hear for Garland, now that he is healthy again

[cgf]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

Garland for the Wagners this summer would still be horrifying for the rest of the NBA. After a swap like that, Cleveland - Orlando could easily be the ECF for the next 3-4 years.*

Granted Cleveland might not need to make that swap to make it through the east…but it’s early days still. Let’s see how they do this spring and if they can already go toe-to-toe with a healthy Celtics or Knicks.

Happy for DG either way. Like Franz, that kid is worth every penny of his extension despite the **** he got for his injury plagued season last year…just feel like he would shine even more playing off Paulo instead of Spida.


*especially if paired with an Allen for Murphy or Jones trade with NOLA.

Mitchell - Jones/Murphy - F.Wagner - Wade - Mobley
Levert - Strus - Okoro - M.Wagner

That defense would be just as ridiculous…or even better if they got Herb instead of Trey…and the offense could be even better. Just a lot less to attack on either side of the ball with only 1 guard and better spacing.

[toooskies]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

Garland for the Wagners this summer would still be horrifying for the rest of the NBA. After a swap like that, Cleveland - Orlando could easily be the ECF for the next 3-4 years.*

Granted Cleveland might not need to make that swap to make it through the east…but it’s early days still. Let’s see how they do this spring and if they can already go toe-to-toe with a healthy Celtics or Knicks.

Happy for DG either way. Like Franz, that kid is worth every penny of his extension despite the **** he got for his injury plagued season last year…just feel like he would shine even more playing off Paulo instead of Spida.


*especially if paired with an Allen for Murphy or Jones trade with NOLA.

Mitchell - Jones/Murphy - F.Wagner - Wade - Mobley
Levert - Strus - Okoro - M.Wagner

That defense would be just as ridiculous…or even better if they got Herb instead of Trey…and the offense could be even better. Just a lot less to attack on either side of the ball with only 1 guard and better spacing.

It's early, but the Knicks haven't done so well with the "try to be Boston" game plan yet. The Cavs having two guards who can beat a good defender off the dribble has tremendous value.

[cgf]

cavs fans - any if these offers float your boat?

Garland for the Wagners this summer would still be horrifying for the rest of the NBA. After a swap like that, Cleveland - Orlando could easily be the ECF for the next 3-4 years.*

Granted Cleveland might not need to make that swap to make it through the east…but it’s early days still. Let’s see how they do this spring and if they can already go toe-to-toe with a healthy Celtics or Knicks.

Happy for DG either way. Like Franz, that kid is worth every penny of his extension despite the **** he got for his injury plagued season last year…just feel like he would shine even more playing off Paulo instead of Spida.


*especially if paired with an Allen for Murphy or Jones trade with NOLA.

Mitchell - Jones/Murphy - F.Wagner - Wade - Mobley
Levert - Strus - Okoro - M.Wagner

That defense would be just as ridiculous…or even better if they got Herb instead of Trey…and the offense could be even better. Just a lot less to attack on either side of the ball with only 1 guard and better spacing.

It's early, but the Knicks haven't done so well with the "try to be Boston" game plan yet. The Cavs having two guards who can beat a good defender off the dribble has tremendous value.

That’s fair lol, but I did add the “healthy” caveat for a reason. Our defense has been a mess, but we’re missing our rim protectors; which has forced Towns to play center and Hart to start.

If we are healthy, I dunno if we’ll be on Boston’s level, but our defense should look completely different and we should be a really tough match up for you in particular IMO…at least on paper.

With Brunson - Bridges - Anunoby - Towns - Robinson we’d have the size advantage across the lineup…DG being so much skinnier than Jalen…and the wing defenders to put an all-defensive team guy on both of your guards.

Obviously your guards are skilled enough to still put in work, but on paper, being able to throw OG, Mikal, McBride, Hart, and Payne, at DG & Spida is about as good as we could ask for to counter you.

Especially with Robinson, Achiuwa, and potentially some deadline acquisition…which our FO still has the ammo to make and who they were rumored to be looking into over the summer…protecting the rim.

Brunson is a weakness for us like DG will be for you, and Mobley might torch Towns, but if he no longer had to worry about protecting the rim, Karl might also defend Mobley as well as he does Jokic.



Either way, having a guard and a wing who can beat good defenders off the dribble is just as beneficial as having two guards that can do it. That’s what would make you scarier after a Franz - Garland swap.

Wagner isn’t an OG or Bridges, he’s just a good defender not a top tier one, but he is a legit on ball perimeter creator, at that size. Not just a supporting piece but a legit offensive costar.

So you’d still have two perimeter creators (DM & Franz) + your big man creator (Mobley) + a defense with zero weaknesses for teams to attack + better spacing if you also traded JA to NOLA for Herb or Trey.

And if it was herb, that defense would just be insane. Wade might be the 4th best defender in your starting lineup if Franz continued to improve.

[JonFromVA]

Garland for the Wagners this summer would still be horrifying for the rest of the NBA. After a swap like that, Cleveland - Orlando could easily be the ECF for the next 3-4 years.*

Granted Cleveland might not need to make that swap to make it through the east…but it’s early days still. Let’s see how they do this spring and if they can already go toe-to-toe with a healthy Celtics or Knicks.

Happy for DG either way. Like Franz, that kid is worth every penny of his extension despite the **** he got for his injury plagued season last year…just feel like he would shine even more playing off Paulo instead of Spida.


*especially if paired with an Allen for Murphy or Jones trade with NOLA.

Mitchell - Jones/Murphy - F.Wagner - Wade - Mobley
Levert - Strus - Okoro - M.Wagner

That defense would be just as ridiculous…or even better if they got Herb instead of Trey…and the offense could be even better. Just a lot less to attack on either side of the ball with only 1 guard and better spacing.

It's early, but the Knicks haven't done so well with the "try to be Boston" game plan yet. The Cavs having two guards who can beat a good defender off the dribble has tremendous value.

That’s fair lol, but I did add the “healthy” caveat for a reason. Our defense has been a mess, but we’re missing our rim protectors; which has forced Towns to play center and Hart to start.

If we are healthy, I dunno if we’ll be on Boston’s level, but our defense should look completely different and we should be a really tough match up for you in particular IMO…at least on paper.

With Brunson - Bridges - Anunoby - Towns - Robinson we’d have the size advantage across the lineup…DG being so much skinnier than Jalen…and the wing defenders to put an all-defensive team guy on both of your guards.

Obviously your guards are skilled enough to still put in work, but on paper, being able to throw OG, Mikal, McBride, Hart, and Payne, at DG & Spida is about as good as we could ask for to counter you.

Especially with Robinson, Achiuwa, and potentially some deadline acquisition…which our FO still has the ammo to make and who they were rumored to be looking into over the summer…protecting the rim.

Brunson is a weakness for us like DG will be for you, and Mobley might torch Towns, but if he no longer had to worry about protecting the rim, Karl might also defend Mobley as well as he does Jokic.



Either way, having a guard and a wing who can beat good defenders off the dribble is just as beneficial as having two guards that can do it. That’s what would make you scarier after a Franz - Garland swap.

Wagner isn’t an OG or Bridges, he’s just a good defender not a top tier one, but he is a legit on ball perimeter creator, at that size. Not just a supporting piece but a legit offensive costar.

So you’d still have two perimeter creators (DM & Franz) + your big man creator (Mobley) + a defense with zero weaknesses for teams to attack + better spacing if you also traded JA to NOLA for Herb or Trey.

And if it was herb, that defense would just be insane. Wade might be the 4th best defender in your starting lineup if Franz continued to improve.

Franz is very good, but it's not "just as beneficial". Garland has been incredible this season and his pairing with Mitchell at the end of games has caused pick your poison problems for defenses and the two of them have provided high level PG play throughout games.

We'll see what's what when the Cavs start playing more top teams.

[toooskies]

Garland for the Wagners this summer would still be horrifying for the rest of the NBA. After a swap like that, Cleveland - Orlando could easily be the ECF for the next 3-4 years.*

Granted Cleveland might not need to make that swap to make it through the east…but it’s early days still. Let’s see how they do this spring and if they can already go toe-to-toe with a healthy Celtics or Knicks.

Happy for DG either way. Like Franz, that kid is worth every penny of his extension despite the **** he got for his injury plagued season last year…just feel like he would shine even more playing off Paulo instead of Spida.


*especially if paired with an Allen for Murphy or Jones trade with NOLA.

Mitchell - Jones/Murphy - F.Wagner - Wade - Mobley
Levert - Strus - Okoro - M.Wagner

That defense would be just as ridiculous…or even better if they got Herb instead of Trey…and the offense could be even better. Just a lot less to attack on either side of the ball with only 1 guard and better spacing.

It's early, but the Knicks haven't done so well with the "try to be Boston" game plan yet. The Cavs having two guards who can beat a good defender off the dribble has tremendous value.

That’s fair lol, but I did add the “healthy” caveat for a reason. Our defense has been a mess, but we’re missing our rim protectors; which has forced Towns to play center and Hart to start.

If we are healthy, I dunno if we’ll be on Boston’s level, but our defense should look completely different and we should be a really tough match up for you in particular IMO…at least on paper.

With Brunson - Bridges - Anunoby - Towns - Robinson we’d have the size advantage across the lineup…DG being so much skinnier than Jalen…and the wing defenders to put an all-defensive team guy on both of your guards.

Obviously your guards are skilled enough to still put in work, but on paper, being able to throw OG, Mikal, McBride, Hart, and Payne, at DG & Spida is about as good as we could ask for to counter you.

Especially with Robinson, Achiuwa, and potentially some deadline acquisition…which our FO still has the ammo to make and who they were rumored to be looking into over the summer…protecting the rim.

Brunson is a weakness for us like DG will be for you, and Mobley might torch Towns, but if he no longer had to worry about protecting the rim, Karl might also defend Mobley as well as he does Jokic.



Either way, having a guard and a wing who can beat good defenders off the dribble is just as beneficial as having two guards that can do it. That’s what would make you scarier after a Franz - Garland swap.

Wagner isn’t an OG or Bridges, he’s just a good defender not a top tier one, but he is a legit on ball perimeter creator, at that size. Not just a supporting piece but a legit offensive costar.

So you’d still have two perimeter creators (DM & Franz) + your big man creator (Mobley) + a defense with zero weaknesses for teams to attack + better spacing if you also traded JA to NOLA for Herb or Trey.

And if it was herb, that defense would just be insane. Wade might be the 4th best defender in your starting lineup if Franz continued to improve.

Two star guards is probably underrated given the shift to 3-pointers in the league, for a variety of reasons. Mitchell has a big enough wingspan to not defend like a guard, anyway. Garland's doing a great job on screens and with his burst back is getting blown by much less.

Two defensive star bigs is underrated-- being able to have a rotating guy protect the rim instead of needing your big to play drop is huge, and having one big to guard another good big while your second one roams is also huge.

Having both at once mitigates the weaknesses of the other, and strengthens your bench units by always having a star guard and defensive big on the floor.

Not saying it's wrong to go guard + big + wings everywhere else, or Franz would've been a bad target. Just that the Cavs' team build doesn't seem to be so obviously wrong right now. It's just not trendy, but great teams set trends rather than try to copy them.