is Klay done?

[Impuniti]

I was rooting for Klay to miss when he shot, but after we won happy that we got the win and he had a good night. I really enjoyed all the pre-game love he got, well earned. I'm glad for both parties that a new chapter has been opened.



Yeah I watch full games in the off-season and both after 22-23 and especially 23-24 it was really obvious how much Klay's athleticism had fallen off. In 21-22 he looks somewhere between Prime Klay and Old Klay, where he is now. Post Injury Klay wasn't amazing, but he led the Warriors in playoff minutes and we won the title. After that, he declined shockingly fast. Last year was a disaster, I watched a Klay defensive highlight video mid-season and it was even crazier of a difference than I was remembering. Watching Prime Klay vids... wow.

Some people might say we were too hard on the difference between Prime Klay and Post-Injury+Old Klay but when I watched the tape, I realized most of us were actually being kind.

I don't agree with this at all, Klay did not lose his athleticism after the 22' season. He never had it then either. And he averaged the most minutes because Steve Kerr is a maniac who coaches with sentimentality/feelings over logic (or common sense) when it comes to his guys.

2022 Playoffs:
+2.6 with Klay on the court.
+12.8 with Klay off the court.

Add Steph into the mix
+ 13.7 Steph on, Klay off
- 4.2 Steph off, Klay on

Just because Warriors won that year, it doesn't mean that everything Kerr or the team did was correct.

When the other guy that plays your position is playing very well. It can make you look bad at plus minus.

Gary Payton was playing very very well until the Dillon Brooks injury.
Jordan Poole was playing very very very very well, and simultaneously playing very very bad. For Jordan Poole, very very, very, very mine is very very equals very very. So Poole was still playing very very well overall when you subtract his bad away from his good.

Klay is not done, but klay is an eighth man quality now, instead of an all-star quality.

My point wasn't to insinuate he's done, I completely agree with what you said. Moreso to note that Kerr had him playing the highest minutes, and wanted to explain that it wasn't due to rationality or some tactical genius. Kerr has been coaching with feelings the previous 3 seasons, many times hampering his ability to have any semblance of objectivity.

When he can objective, he's at top 3 coach in the league depending on the year.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I don't agree with this at all, Klay did not lose his athleticism after the 22' season. He never had it then either. And he averaged the most minutes because Steve Kerr is a maniac who coaches with sentimentality/feelings over logic (or common sense) when it comes to his guys.

2022 Playoffs:
+2.6 with Klay on the court.
+12.8 with Klay off the court.

Add Steph into the mix
+ 13.7 Steph on, Klay off
- 4.2 Steph off, Klay on

Just because Warriors won that year, it doesn't mean that everything Kerr or the team did was correct.

When the other guy that plays your position is playing very well. It can make you look bad at plus minus.

Gary Payton was playing very very well until the Dillon Brooks injury.
Jordan Poole was playing very very very very well, and simultaneously playing very very bad. For Jordan Poole, very very, very, very mine is very very equals very very. So Poole was still playing very very well overall when you subtract his bad away from his good.

Klay is not done, but klay is an eighth man quality now, instead of an all-star quality.

My point wasn't to insinuate he's done, I completely agree with what you said. Moreso to note that Kerr had him playing the highest minutes, and wanted to explain that it wasn't due to rationality or some tactical genius. Kerr has been coaching with feelings the previous 3 seasons, many times hampering his ability to have any semblance of objectivity.

When he can objective, he's at top 3 coach in the league depending on the year.

Our board gave Kerr so much **** for playing Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if Kar was Hitler or Trump or something. Plus minus supported Kerr and did not support our board. If you wanted to make the playoffs, playing Lamb was the correct thing to do. Two timelines with stupid we never should have drafted Kuminga and Moody even though they are good now. Thinking that Curry would not age was a dumb idea even though Curry sort of is not aging. If Curry was aging normally the Kuminga Curry combined timeline would not exist.

So I became skeptical of all criticism of Kar that it might all be as irrational as thinking that baby Jesus, Anthony Randolph was going to save us.

I don’t remember your position on playing Lamb over Kuminga and Curry.

Klay is a completely different story. I don’t know which was more likely, Kuminga and Moody becoming as good as they have become or Wiggins and Klay returning to good form. In Win now situation’s I kind of trust the old injured vets more than I trust the undeveloped kids.

What was the on off for Klay last year when Curry was off the floor? Who was the go to guy with Cory off the floor last year? I think it was Klay and I’m not sure if Kuminga was ready for that role. I expect Kuminga to become a go to scorer next year if not this year But when the offenses playing like they’re broken as a team offense, and the the other team’s defense is playing well I thought Klay was different than Kuminga but not much worse than Kuminga at carrying an offensive load. Kuminga was more efficient but more stoppable.

The praise of Moody, who only now is finally deserving that praise in the condemnation of Klay struck me as being exaggerated.

I don’t remember where you stood on his issues . Last year’s sucky offense team kind of needed Klay but we needed Klay to be better than he was but we really had no Plan B to Klay and Wiggins being good. Now we have a team offense and we can trust Kuminga as a one on one player. I think last summer was the right time to part ways with Klay not before that.

I’m not crying for Moodys lost minutes. Maybe we should have traded Moody to a bad team we could get minutes. If we had Melton and Buddy Hield in 2022 and 2023 then Klay would have got less minutes.

[floppymoose]

Jazz leading Mavs in the 3rd. Im watching this game and Klay is giving me PTSD. 14 points on 14 shots with 3 turnovers so far.

Edit: 4th q now. My god the Jazz are bad, but so far Klay is keeping them in front.

[michaelm]

When the other guy that plays your position is playing very well. It can make you look bad at plus minus.

Gary Payton was playing very very well until the Dillon Brooks injury.
Jordan Poole was playing very very very very well, and simultaneously playing very very bad. For Jordan Poole, very very, very, very mine is very very equals very very. So Poole was still playing very very well overall when you subtract his bad away from his good.

Klay is not done, but klay is an eighth man quality now, instead of an all-star quality.

My point wasn't to insinuate he's done, I completely agree with what you said. Moreso to note that Kerr had him playing the highest minutes, and wanted to explain that it wasn't due to rationality or some tactical genius. Kerr has been coaching with feelings the previous 3 seasons, many times hampering his ability to have any semblance of objectivity.

When he can objective, he's at top 3 coach in the league depending on the year.

Our board gave Kerr so much **** for playing Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if Kar was Hitler or Trump or something. Plus minus supported Kerr and did not support our board. If you wanted to make the playoffs, playing Lamb was the correct thing to do. Two timelines with stupid we never should have drafted Kuminga and Moody even though they are good now. Thinking that Curry would not age was a dumb idea even though Curry sort of is not aging. If Curry was aging normally the Kuminga Curry combined timeline would not exist.

So I became skeptical of all criticism of Kar that it might all be as irrational as thinking that baby Jesus, Anthony Randolph was going to save us.

I don’t remember your position on playing Lamb over Kuminga and Curry.

Klay is a completely different story. I don’t know which was more likely, Kuminga and Moody becoming as good as they have become or Wiggins and Klay returning to good form. In Win now situation’s I kind of trust the old injured vets more than I trust the undeveloped kids.

What was the on off for Klay last year when Curry was off the floor? Who was the go to guy with Cory off the floor last year? I think it was Klay and I’m not sure if Kuminga was ready for that role. I expect Kuminga to become a go to scorer next year if not this year But when the offenses playing like they’re broken as a team offense, and the the other team’s defense is playing well I thought Klay was different than Kuminga but not much worse than Kuminga at carrying an offensive load. Kuminga was more efficient but more stoppable.

The praise of Moody, who only now is finally deserving that praise in the condemnation of Klay struck me as being exaggerated.

I don’t remember where you stood on his issues . Last year’s sucky offense team kind of needed Klay but we needed Klay to be better than he was but we really had no Plan B to Klay and Wiggins being good. Now we have a team offense and we can trust Kuminga as a one on one player. I think last summer was the right time to part ways with Klay not before that.

I’m not crying for Moodys lost minutes. Maybe we should have traded Moody to a bad team we could get minutes. If we had Melton and Buddy Hield in 2022 and 2023 then Klay would have got less minutes.

Don’t agree.

Lamb wasn’t the quality of player who in any major role would have allowed them to do anything if they got to the play-offs, while Kuminga and Moody were at least capable of developing to be useful. Moody in particular was hooked/benched with the slightest of provocations.

What is most salient imo is that they couldn’t play Warriors ball/Kerr and Curry ball, which when successful has always depended at least as much on elite defense as on offense, with post injury Klay and geriatric CP3. Their overall numbers might not have looked all that bad, they were possibly useful early in games, but at the death when fatigued as well as slow and/or old they were a disaster.

I have more doubts about Moody currently than I have had for 2 seasons btw. And sure it may be appropriate to blame the FO rather than Kerr, they didn’t give him the players to execute his successful scheme, the two timelines thing was indeed unlikely to come off although it might have if they had selected Haliburton and/or Wagner, and they should indeed imo, your opinion and that of many others have looked to maximise the window of the best player the franchise is ever likely to have in Steph Curry.

[ILOVEIT]

Tonight against Utah Jazz - Klay shoots 6-17 at combined 35% with 3 turnovers and 3 rebounds.
Klay is WORSE than finished. He's got just enough left to fool teams like Dallas. They are going to be much worse with him getting big minutes.

[GQ Hot Dog]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

[CDM_Stats]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

Your join date makes me think you don't really remember 15+ years ago... treadmill team fans go in on each other hard

Mavs are looking that way. Klay is part of it, but its mostly that they overachieved for one year as Luka went off and a couple role players popped at the right time. More damning is their guard depth, as Dinwiddie and Hardy have been **** awful. Lively's been hurt and PJ Washington has turned back into a pumpkin

But Kidd sucks, both as a person and likely as a coach, and that's a big part too. Because the core 4 over there (Luka/Kyrie/Gafford/Lively) are actually excellent and its just a matter of time til one of the scrubs pops off enough to get them back into the top 6 in the West

[GQ Hot Dog]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

Your join date makes me think you don't really remember 15+ years ago... treadmill team fans go in on each other hard

Mavs are looking that way. Klay is part of it, but its mostly that they overachieved for one year as Luka went off and a couple role players popped at the right time. More damning is their guard depth, as Dinwiddie and Hardy have been **** awful. Lively's been hurt and PJ Washington has turned back into a pumpkin

But Kidd sucks, both as a person and likely as a coach, and that's a big part too. Because the core 4 over there (Luka/Kyrie/Gafford/Lively) are actually excellent and its just a matter of time til one of the scrubs pops off enough to get them back into the top 6 in the West

I remember well the cast of comic book bad guys terrorizing these pages. Guys like Rowell and LF75. They were so consistently over-the-top antagonistic and ridiculous that their bits became legitimately comedic. My moniker is in homage to those less-than-halcyon days.

[TB]

My worry for Klay was that he would be about the same as he was for us last year (which is about what it seems) and that Grimes (or maybe Naji) would also shoot a decent percentage while being able to defend... thus having fans and media applying the pressure to have them start over Klay since Luka/Kyrie/Klay is awful on defense.

Luckily for Klay (but not the mavs), every option to start over Klay has been awful. That being said, Grimes just got his first start and was pretty decent. I still think he may be the better fit in alot of scenarios and wouldn't be surprised if there are some awkward offense/defense rotations that has Klay sitting at the ends of games.

Long story short, I still don't see this ending well.

[wco81]

Mavs over performed in the rounds before the Finals because Gafford, Washington and DJJ played way above their heads, or much better than they had in their careers, especially shooting the corner 3s by Washington and DJJ.

That's why they signed Klay.

Luka and Kyrie aren't changing their games, they're both going to take turns creating shots for themselves and when blitzed, they're going to kick the ball and rely on their role players to hit open shots.

But it sounds like Luka isn't yet hitting the 3 like he did last year, when he set his personal best for 3PM.

It's only been a dozen games though, so he could crank it up.

[floppymoose]

As for whether Mavs will be top 6…. Not if they dont have very good availability from all 4 of the core. Otherwise, no chance.

[floppymoose]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

They are fighting about Klay and Luka. And blaming the refs. And of course, they all hate Kidd with a white hot passion.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

My point wasn't to insinuate he's done, I completely agree with what you said. Moreso to note that Kerr had him playing the highest minutes, and wanted to explain that it wasn't due to rationality or some tactical genius. Kerr has been coaching with feelings the previous 3 seasons, many times hampering his ability to have any semblance of objectivity.

When he can objective, he's at top 3 coach in the league depending on the year.

Our board gave Kerr so much **** for playing Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if Kar was Hitler or Trump or something. Plus minus supported Kerr and did not support our board. If you wanted to make the playoffs, playing Lamb was the correct thing to do. Two timelines with stupid we never should have drafted Kuminga and Moody even though they are good now. Thinking that Curry would not age was a dumb idea even though Curry sort of is not aging. If Curry was aging normally the Kuminga Curry combined timeline would not exist.

So I became skeptical of all criticism of Kar that it might all be as irrational as thinking that baby Jesus, Anthony Randolph was going to save us.

I don’t remember your position on playing Lamb over Kuminga and Curry.

Klay is a completely different story. I don’t know which was more likely, Kuminga and Moody becoming as good as they have become or Wiggins and Klay returning to good form. In Win now situation’s I kind of trust the old injured vets more than I trust the undeveloped kids.

What was the on off for Klay last year when Curry was off the floor? Who was the go to guy with Cory off the floor last year? I think it was Klay and I’m not sure if Kuminga was ready for that role. I expect Kuminga to become a go to scorer next year if not this year But when the offenses playing like they’re broken as a team offense, and the the other team’s defense is playing well I thought Klay was different than Kuminga but not much worse than Kuminga at carrying an offensive load. Kuminga was more efficient but more stoppable.

The praise of Moody, who only now is finally deserving that praise in the condemnation of Klay struck me as being exaggerated.

I don’t remember where you stood on his issues . Last year’s sucky offense team kind of needed Klay but we needed Klay to be better than he was but we really had no Plan B to Klay and Wiggins being good. Now we have a team offense and we can trust Kuminga as a one on one player. I think last summer was the right time to part ways with Klay not before that.

I’m not crying for Moodys lost minutes. Maybe we should have traded Moody to a bad team we could get minutes. If we had Melton and Buddy Hield in 2022 and 2023 then Klay would have got less minutes.

Don’t agree.

Lamb wasn’t the quality of player who in any major role would have allowed them to do anything if they got to the play-offs, while Kuminga and Moody were at least capable of developing to be useful. Moody in particular was hooked/benched with the slightest of provocations.

What is most salient imo is that they couldn’t play Warriors ball/Kerr and Curry ball, which when successful has always depended at least as much on elite defense as on offense, with post injury Klay and geriatric CP3. Their overall numbers might not have looked all that bad, they were possibly useful early in games, but at the death when fatigued as well as slow and/or old they were a disaster.

I have more doubts about Moody currently than I have had for 2 seasons btw. And sure it may be appropriate to blame the FO rather than Kerr, they didn’t give him the players to execute his successful scheme, the two timelines thing was indeed unlikely to come off although it might have if they had selected Haliburton and/or Wagner, and they should indeed imo, your opinion and that of many others have looked to maximise the window of the best player the franchise is ever likely to have in Steph Curry.

Lamb did not have the upside potential of Kuminga and Moody but plus minus was not lying, Lamb was helping that bad Warriors team win games more than inexperienced low basketball IQ Kuminga and Moody were. Kerr was not wrong to play Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if we were in win now mode. Warriors were not good but as long we had Curry and Draymond it would have been wrong to put developing Kuminga and Moody above the goal of making the playoffs for which playing Lamb was a better choice than playing Kuminga and Moody.

The inability of consensus opinion on our board to understand that car was making the right decision when he played Lamb over Kuminga and Moody made me doubt the basketball IQ of our board at assessing Kerr’s coaching job. Our board was delusional when they could not see the flaws in too young Kuminga’s and Moody.

Kerr was correct and our board was wrong.

Klay was a different story.
Bad Klay taking difficult shots was not efficient but was still better than anybody else other than anybody else other Curry could do. If you have five seconds left on the shot clock and the team offense is not working and not moving the ball properly and not setting screens probably then it was better to have the ball in Klay’s hand than in Kuminga’s hand in that situation. I would’ve loved to have Jimmy Butler as 2nd option to Curry but we didn’t have Jimmy Butler so our choice was Klay or Kuminga.

5 seconds remaining on the shot clock with a broken team offense who are you going to Dray as a passer, Or Kuminga or Klay as a scorer. With time running out I’ll be perfectly happy with a 30% shooter shooter. I trust bad Klay to shoot bad shots at 30% where as I do not really want Kuminga shooting bad shots. As Kuminga gets better at drawing fouls I am getting comfortable with Kuminga going 1 on 3 driving into a crowd of defenders which Kuminga is pretty good at but those are bad shots and I trusted Klay more at hitting bad shots last year than I trusted Kuminga at hitting bad shots. kuminga was the better good shot shooter than Klay so for the 1st 15 seconds of shot clock I preferred the ball in Kuminga’s hands but if somebody had to hit a garbage shot I trusted Klay more in that role last year. All I am asking for from my bad shot shooter is 30% Shooting on bail out bad shot shooting.

Klay with the ball in his hands to take a bail-out bad shot might find Trayce for a dunk. New and improved Kuminga moight also find Trayce for a dunk but prior to late last year I did not trust Kuminga as a passerer.

[CDM_Stats]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

They are fighting about Klay and Luka. And blaming the refs. And of course, they all hate Kidd with a white hot passion.

[GQ Hot Dog]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

They are fighting about Klay and Luka. And blaming the refs. And of course, they all hate Kidd with a white hot passion.

That better be a cup of eggnog.

[floppymoose]

I like JKs passing when its in his field of view. He’s not a guy who knows the open man is behind him, but when he sees the open man ahead of him he is very willing.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Mavs over performed in the rounds before the Finals because Gafford, Washington and DJJ played way above their heads, or much better than they had in their careers, especially shooting the corner 3s by Washington and DJJ.

That's why they signed Klay.

Luka and Kyrie aren't changing their games, they're both going to take turns creating shots for themselves and when blitzed, they're going to kick the ball and rely on their role players to hit open shots.

But it sounds like Luka isn't yet hitting the 3 like he did last year, when he set his personal best for 3PM.

It's only been a dozen games though, so he could crank it up.

Washington seems to have his best games against the Warriors.

[michaelm]

I

Our board gave Kerr so much **** for playing Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if Kar was Hitler or Trump or something. Plus minus supported Kerr and did not support our board. If you wanted to make the playoffs, playing Lamb was the correct thing to do. Two timelines with stupid we never should have drafted Kuminga and Moody even though they are good now. Thinking that Curry would not age was a dumb idea even though Curry sort of is not aging. If Curry was aging normally the Kuminga Curry combined timeline would not exist.

So I became skeptical of all criticism of Kar that it might all be as irrational as thinking that baby Jesus, Anthony Randolph was going to save us.

I don’t remember your position on playing Lamb over Kuminga and Curry.

Klay is a completely different story. I don’t know which was more likely, Kuminga and Moody becoming as good as they have become or Wiggins and Klay returning to good form. In Win now situation’s I kind of trust the old injured vets more than I trust the undeveloped kids.

What was the on off for Klay last year when Curry was off the floor? Who was the go to guy with Cory off the floor last year? I think it was Klay and I’m not sure if Kuminga was ready for that role. I expect Kuminga to become a go to scorer next year if not this year But when the offenses playing like they’re broken as a team offense, and the the other team’s defense is playing well I thought Klay was different than Kuminga but not much worse than Kuminga at carrying an offensive load. Kuminga was more efficient but more stoppable.

The praise of Moody, who only now is finally deserving that praise in the condemnation of Klay struck me as being exaggerated.

I don’t remember where you stood on his issues . Last year’s sucky offense team kind of needed Klay but we needed Klay to be better than he was but we really had no Plan B to Klay and Wiggins being good. Now we have a team offense and we can trust Kuminga as a one on one player. I think last summer was the right time to part ways with Klay not before that.

I’m not crying for Moodys lost minutes. Maybe we should have traded Moody to a bad team we could get minutes. If we had Melton and Buddy Hield in 2022 and 2023 then Klay would have got less minutes.

Don’t agree.

Lamb wasn’t the quality of player who in any major role would have allowed them to do anything if they got to the play-offs, while Kuminga and Moody were at least capable of developing to be useful. Moody in particular was hooked/benched with the slightest of provocations.

What is most salient imo is that they couldn’t play Warriors ball/Kerr and Curry ball, which when successful has always depended at least as much on elite defense as on offense, with post injury Klay and geriatric CP3. Their overall numbers might not have looked all that bad, they were possibly useful early in games, but at the death when fatigued as well as slow and/or old they were a disaster.

I have more doubts about Moody currently than I have had for 2 seasons btw. And sure it may be appropriate to blame the FO rather than Kerr, they didn’t give him the players to execute his successful scheme, the two timelines thing was indeed unlikely to come off although it might have if they had selected Haliburton and/or Wagner, and they should indeed imo, your opinion and that of many others have looked to maximise the window of the best player the franchise is ever likely to have in Steph Curry.

Lamb did not have the upside potential of Kuminga and Moody but plus minus was not lying, Lamb was helping that bad Warriors team win games more than inexperienced low basketball IQ Kuminga and Moody were. Kerr was not wrong to play Lamb over Kuminga and Moody if we were in win now mode. Warriors were not good but as long we had Curry and Draymond it would have been wrong to put developing Kuminga and Moody above the goal of making the playoffs for which playing Lamb was a better choice than playing Kuminga and Moody.

The inability of consensus opinion on our board to understand that car was making the right decision when he played Lamb over Kuminga and Moody made me doubt the basketball IQ of our board at assessing Kerr’s coaching job. Our board was delusional when they could not see the flaws in too young Kuminga’s and Moody.

Kerr was correct and our board was wrong.

Klay was a different story.
Bad Klay taking difficult shots was not efficient but was still better than anybody else other than anybody else other Curry could do. If you have five seconds left on the shot clock and the team offense is not working and not moving the ball properly and not setting screens probably then it was better to have the ball in Klay’s hand than in Kuminga’s hand in that situation. I would’ve loved to have Jimmy Butler as 2nd option to Curry but we didn’t have Jimmy Butler so our choice was Klay or Kuminga.

5 seconds remaining on the shot clock with a broken team offense who are you going to Dray as a passer, Or Kuminga or Klay as a scorer. With time running out I’ll be perfectly happy with a 30% shooter shooter. I trust bad Klay to shoot bad shots at 30% where as I do not really want Kuminga shooting bad shots. As Kuminga gets better at drawing fouls I am getting comfortable with Kuminga going 1 on 3 driving into a crowd of defenders which Kuminga is pretty good at but those are bad shots and I trusted Klay more at hitting bad shots last year than I trusted Kuminga at hitting bad shots. kuminga was the better good shot shooter than Klay so for the 1st 15 seconds of shot clock I preferred the ball in Kuminga’s hands but if somebody had to hit a garbage shot I trusted Klay more in that role last year. All I am asking for from my bad shot shooter is 30% Shooting on bail out bad shot shooting.

Klay with the ball in his hands to take a bail-out bad shot might find Trayce for a dunk. New and improved Kuminga moight also find Trayce for a dunk but prior to late last year I did not trust Kuminga as a passerer.

Raw plus/minus often does lie.


And the issue with Klay was not him taking one shot at the end of a game, with which many if not most on here would have had no problem, although he was less good at it than than he had been in his prime, it was him choosing to shoot like he was still prime Klay for whole games in which Kerr gave him heavy minutes, and the micro/slow units being unable to defend at the end of close games quite a number of which they lost in the last minute or two as opposed to winning such games in a small sample size this year. Meanwhile post injury Klay playing as a starter seems to be having the same effect on Dallas as he had at GSW in his last 2 seasons. The micro units also put too much defensive burden on Curry, as LeBron himself said a few years ago Curry has a great motor, but even he in his mid 30s is not totally superhuman, and such a defensive burden saps his energy for doing what he does offensively, and I even wondered whether he partially gave up defensively because he knew his efforts were pointless. Dray doesn’t fully engage if he thinks there is no point either.

I am wondering myself whether Moody can be effective over high minutes, but he at least had the tools to be a good defender and had stellar numbers particularly for 3 point shooting in the play-offs despite which he was still benched/hooked fairly arbiltrarily in the opinion of some including me, or not played at all by Kerr, when Klay and Paul were stinking it up. And how Moody was supposed to develop with Kerr’s approach to him I have no idea.

As I have said I am treating this season as the 2021-2022 season, during which Kerr actually was correct and this board was wrong, until proven otherwise, but losing a play-in game to end a season should not be the acme of the ambitions of a coach who has a healthy Steph Curry on his roster, and it is fairly understandable if most fans of said team are not happy with that outcome either. If you want to argue that this was due to the FO not giving Kerr the team he needed fine, I have already agreed with you on that point.

[Scoots1994]

I just glanced at the Mavs board game thread for tonight. It's all meltdowns and sniping at one another. Waaaaay worse than this board ever is.

The washed Klay affect is real.

Your join date makes me think you don't really remember 15+ years ago... treadmill team fans go in on each other hard

Mavs are looking that way. Klay is part of it, but its mostly that they overachieved for one year as Luka went off and a couple role players popped at the right time. More damning is their guard depth, as Dinwiddie and Hardy have been **** awful. Lively's been hurt and PJ Washington has turned back into a pumpkin

But Kidd sucks, both as a person and likely as a coach, and that's a big part too. Because the core 4 over there (Luka/Kyrie/Gafford/Lively) are actually excellent and its just a matter of time til one of the scrubs pops off enough to get them back into the top 6 in the West

I remember well the cast of comic book bad guys terrorizing these pages. Guys like Rowell and LF75. They were so consistently over-the-top antagonistic and ridiculous that their bits became legitimately comedic. My moniker is in homage to those less-than-halcyon days.

Toxic sports forums fans are always around, just when things go well they get quieter.

One of my regrets is that Covid killed one of the forums I was on forever and now I can't say "I was right" to all of the ones who argued with me

[Big J]

1-11 today. I hate to say it, but Klay looks fuggin clapped out.