BOS/SAS - Return of Derrick White

[babyjax13]

Knicks gave up FIVE firsts, a swap, a second & Bogdan for Bridges… is White not better than Mikal Bridges?

It was pretty unanimous here that this was a large overpay, so I don't see the relevance.

I think ever since the Rudy trade, value around the league has been skewed way off. To the point that now days it almost makes no sense to even attempt a trade. I guess inflation also hit player value. I hear almost 5 picks for a freaking role player. And sadly there are too many either desperate or dumb (maybe both) front offices that give in to ridiculous asks.

Rudy was a top 10-15 player in the league at the time, I think he returned what he was worth.

[brackdan70]

It was pretty unanimous here that this was a large overpay, so I don't see the relevance.

I think ever since the Rudy trade, value around the league has been skewed way off. To the point that now days it almost makes no sense to even attempt a trade. I guess inflation also hit player value. I hear almost 5 picks for a freaking role player. And sadly there are too many either desperate or dumb (maybe both) front offices that give in to ridiculous asks.

Rudy was a top 10-15 player in the league at the time, I think he returned what he was worth.

Yeah Rudy haul was much closer to fair than Bridges.

[pad300]

EDIT: To come to this value I looked at recent offseason transactions including Mikal Bridges and, specifically, Deni Avdija.

The Blazers trade for Deni, required they send:
Malcolm Brogdon ($22.5 million expiring)
14th pick 2024 draft
2029 1st (2nd best of)
2 2nds (2028, 2030)

So Deni is worth Brogdon, a lottery first, a 2nd best-of first, and two seconds. Derrick White is just a superior player relative to Deni. White is signed four more years at a plus cap figure. He’s worth a Deni package plus at least one additional first. The Zach Collins $18 million is lesser money than Brogdon who, if healthy, could be flipped for future 2nds. Taking $18 million in bad Zach Collins money is also added draft capital, however you value that, if the Celts need for tax purposes to attach assets and move Zach Collins into a 3rd team cap space.

You are seriously understating the contract issues here. Deni is under contract for 3 years after this one, for less than $40 million over those 3 years, on a declining contract. Derrick is under contract for 4 years after this one, for more than $120M, on an increasing contract. Derrick is paid like a star, Deni like a cheap role player... This makes a huge difference in their trade values, especially for any team with lux tax concerns (never the second apron penalties).

[wadenation305]

EDIT: To come to this value I looked at recent offseason transactions including Mikal Bridges and, specifically, Deni Avdija.

The Blazers trade for Deni, required they send:
Malcolm Brogdon ($22.5 million expiring)
14th pick 2024 draft
2029 1st (2nd best of)
2 2nds (2028, 2030)

So Deni is worth Brogdon, a lottery first, a 2nd best-of first, and two seconds. Derrick White is just a superior player relative to Deni. White is signed four more years at a plus cap figure. He’s worth a Deni package plus at least one additional first. The Zach Collins $18 million is lesser money than Brogdon who, if healthy, could be flipped for future 2nds. Taking $18 million in bad Zach Collins money is also added draft capital, however you value that, if the Celts need for tax purposes to attach assets and move Zach Collins into a 3rd team cap space.

You are seriously understating the contract issues here. Deni is under contract for 3 years after this one, for less than $40 million over those 3 years, on a declining contract. Derrick is under contract for 4 years after this one, for more than $120M, on an increasing contract. Derrick is paid like a star, Deni like a cheap role player... This makes a huge difference in their trade values, especially for any team with lux tax concerns (never the second apron penalties).

Derick White is one of the reasons they were able to win a championship. He was backbreaking. He is paid more than Deni, but he was a way better player between the two, and it's not remotely close. If they have to get rid of him for tax purposes I'd do everything in my power to trade any other combination of people not named Tatum, Brown, and White. Those 3 are the key to their continued championship hopes.

[brackdan70]

EDIT: To come to this value I looked at recent offseason transactions including Mikal Bridges and, specifically, Deni Avdija.

The Blazers trade for Deni, required they send:
Malcolm Brogdon ($22.5 million expiring)
14th pick 2024 draft
2029 1st (2nd best of)
2 2nds (2028, 2030)

So Deni is worth Brogdon, a lottery first, a 2nd best-of first, and two seconds. Derrick White is just a superior player relative to Deni. White is signed four more years at a plus cap figure. He’s worth a Deni package plus at least one additional first. The Zach Collins $18 million is lesser money than Brogdon who, if healthy, could be flipped for future 2nds. Taking $18 million in bad Zach Collins money is also added draft capital, however you value that, if the Celts need for tax purposes to attach assets and move Zach Collins into a 3rd team cap space.

You are seriously understating the contract issues here. Deni is under contract for 3 years after this one, for less than $40 million over those 3 years, on a declining contract. Derrick is under contract for 4 years after this one, for more than $120M, on an increasing contract. Derrick is paid like a star, Deni like a cheap role player... This makes a huge difference in their trade values, especially for any team with lux tax concerns (never the second apron penalties).

White is not paid like a star, though he is a star, top 30 guy arguably. He is the 63rd highest salary in the league for 25-26, the first year of his new contract.

[Celts17Pride]

Boston is 10-3. Why would they get rid of a significant contributor?

They won't. Celtics are not trading DWhite. If anyone goes it will be Holiday or Porzingis and that won't be until next year.

[redslastlaugh]

EDIT: To come to this value I looked at recent offseason transactions including Mikal Bridges and, specifically, Deni Avdija.

The Blazers trade for Deni, required they send:
Malcolm Brogdon ($22.5 million expiring)
14th pick 2024 draft
2029 1st (2nd best of)
2 2nds (2028, 2030)

So Deni is worth Brogdon, a lottery first, a 2nd best-of first, and two seconds. Derrick White is just a superior player relative to Deni. White is signed four more years at a plus cap figure. He’s worth a Deni package plus at least one additional first. The Zach Collins $18 million is lesser money than Brogdon who, if healthy, could be flipped for future 2nds. Taking $18 million in bad Zach Collins money is also added draft capital, however you value that, if the Celts need for tax purposes to attach assets and move Zach Collins into a 3rd team cap space.

You are seriously understating the contract issues here. Deni is under contract for 3 years after this one, for less than $40 million over those 3 years, on a declining contract. Derrick is under contract for 4 years after this one, for more than $120M, on an increasing contract. Derrick is paid like a star, Deni like a cheap role player... This makes a huge difference in their trade values, especially for any team with lux tax concerns (never the second apron penalties).

Naw, man. The contract issue is not that cut-and-dried. Because Deni is so drastically underpaid, he’s not able to be extended, as extensions are capped at 140% of annual value. So Deni, when he is in his age 27 season, is certain to become an unrestricted free agent after 2028. White, while more expensive per year, has a very positive contract with more favorable team control elements from Spurs POV

[Myth]

I don't really get it for either team. I mean, I get it a bit more for Boston because it feels like an overpay, but it also could mess with a good thing.

[redslastlaugh]

Revisiting this trade, I’m starting to think SAS needs to move off some 2025 assets for a veteran and this brought me back to Derrick White trade idea.

I’ve reworked it as follows to preserve SAS future assets (post 2025 draft).

Spurs trade:
Chris Paul, Tre Jones, 2025 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2027 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2025 2nd (Lesser of SAS/CHI)

Celtics trade:
Derrick White

Spurs keep all their best picks, move off CP and Jones, and bring back Derrick.

Celtics add two expiring guards while solving their ongoing luxury tax problem and get a 1st likely 10-15 in 2025 to look for a guard replacement for White

I would also complete a second deal, as follow for SAS guard depth

Spurs trade:
2029 2nd (LAC)

Celtics trade:
JD Davison

Davison is the best lob throwing PG in the gleague, currently trade eligible on a 2-way and gives the Spurs additional PG depth. Makes sense to take a flier on a still young PG prospect after losing guard depth with CP3 and Jones.

[pad300]

Revisiting this trade, I’m starting to think SAS needs to move off some 2025 assets for a veteran and this brought me back to Derrick White trade idea.

I’ve reworked it as follows to preserve SAS future assets (post 2025 draft).

Spurs trade:
Chris Paul, Tre Jones, 2025 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2027 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2025 2nd (Lesser of SAS/CHI)

Celtics trade:
Derrick White

Spurs keep all their best picks, move off CP and Jones, and bring back Derrick.

Celtics add two expiring guards while solving their ongoing luxury tax problem and get a 1st likely 10-15 in 2025 to look for a guard replacement for White

...

This trade would work for SAS, although there might be long-term salary cap implications to having White's contract on board.

With both D White and Castle being strong defenders, you could play them side by side in a 2 PG back-court; it would be pretty nasty defensively.

White, Castle, Champagnie, Barnes/Sochan (shooting vs defense trade-off), Wemby

[wemby]

Revisiting this trade, I’m starting to think SAS needs to move off some 2025 assets for a veteran and this brought me back to Derrick White trade idea.

I’ve reworked it as follows to preserve SAS future assets (post 2025 draft).

Spurs trade:
Chris Paul, Tre Jones, 2025 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2027 1st (2nd best of ATL/SAS), 2025 2nd (Lesser of SAS/CHI)

Celtics trade:
Derrick White

Spurs keep all their best picks, move off CP and Jones, and bring back Derrick.

Celtics add two expiring guards while solving their ongoing luxury tax problem and get a 1st likely 10-15 in 2025 to look for a guard replacement for White

I would also complete a second deal, as follow for SAS guard depth

Spurs trade:
2029 2nd (LAC)

Celtics trade:
JD Davison

Davison is the best lob throwing PG in the gleague, currently trade eligible on a 2-way and gives the Spurs additional PG depth. Makes sense to take a flier on a still young PG prospect after losing guard depth with CP3 and Jones.

I guess it's reasonable for the Spurs, but why would the Celtics want to move Derrick White for picks? If this is a salary move, they should probably go for 2/3 younger guys that have proven something and are on reasonable deals. Or move Porzingis who can't seem to stay healthy.

As for JD Davidson, I don't know much about him and G-League stats don't tell me anything (plenty of guys with impressive stats can't cut it in the NBA). Also Spurs are kind of crowded on their project quota (Branham, Wesley, Cissoko, Minix, Ingram, etc) so I wouldn't be looking for a 3rd/4th PG, but if the Spurs FO likes him enough then I guess a flyer on him for a SRP isn't unreasonable. I'd pass.

[Ell Curry]

It would be KP, no? The showed they could win without him last year. And his health makes him always a question mark. No question he raises the ceiling, but they are already a championship level team without him. He would be the first payroll cut I'd imagine.

Yeah, I think they would move Porzingis first, and they've been as good with Jrue off the court as on this year, so he would probably be next above White.

If they only have to save 10M:
1)Would the Bulls do Porzingis for Vucevic (send Javon Carter, Phillips and a pair of 2nds to Charlotte to make it work) this summer?
2) Move Hauser to San Antonio, Charlotte or some other team with cap room for 2nd rounders.

If they need to save 20M:
Then Jrue for Josh Green and some 2nd rounders looks just about squeezable cap-wise this summer (once Charlotte cuts Cody Martin and Micic it depends on if they pick like 1st or 2nd or if they pick like 4th or 5th) and the Celtics get a 3+D guard, save 20M and get younger, and the Hornets get an adult to go with Lamelo, Miller, their 2025 lottery pick and teach them some defence in what should be a nice 1-4 group with Mark Williams hopefully finally staying healthy and Miles Bridges maybe starting until the rookie is ready to send him back to 6th man status. I doubt the Hornets have a better plan than that with 15-20M in cap space.

If Boston needs to save 30M, it's tougher:
That probably looks like moving Hauser to some team with cap room for multiple 2nd rounders, and then doing a Porzingis or Jrue deal with about 10M in salary coming back. Porzingis for Isaiah Stewart makes sense for Detroit to add some upside and a better shooter at the 5 to help Holland/Thompson play the 4 (Porzingis and one of Holland or Thompson as a pair at the 4, Duren and Tobias Harris the other half of the game works), and Boston gets a healthier, younger bruiser inside who has shown some 3pt shooting upside.