2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[Wolfgang630]

I think it’s definitely Joker and Tatum and 1 and 2. SGA is 3.

[bisme37]

I resisted making a thread haha but at least have to post this. For the "Tatum is a wuss and not clutch" crowd.

https://www.nba.com/news/starting-5-nov-17-deaaron-foxs-historic-2-day-heater-jayson-tatum-calls-game

Since the 2019-20 season, Tatum has hit seven game-winning shots in the last five seconds of a game (regular season and Playoffs)

His seven game-winners in the final five seconds are the most by any NBA player in that span, followed by Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (6), Luka Dončić (5) and Ja Morant (5)

Read on Twitter

[Impuniti]

How the hell did Booker become to bad? Same dude who put up 70 against Boston years ago.

Probably going through a bad spell, he was fantastic in the Olympics not too long from now.

[AleksandarN]

With tonight’s game Jokic should be runaway MVP. I mean the game is brutal

[AleksandarN]

I resisted making a thread haha but at least have to post this. For the "Tatum is a wuss and not clutch" crowd.

https://www.nba.com/news/starting-5-nov-17-deaaron-foxs-historic-2-day-heater-jayson-tatum-calls-game

Since the 2019-20 season, Tatum has hit seven game-winning shots in the last five seconds of a game (regular season and Playoffs)

His seven game-winners in the final five seconds are the most by any NBA player in that span, followed by Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (6), Luka Dončić (5) and Ja Morant (5)

Read on Twitter

JT calls game NBA calls travel lol

[GSP]

That's voter fatigue. It cuts both ways, given that there are guys who arguably could have won some of Jokic's MVPs if they didn't have that working against them. I will agree that based purely on perf9rmance, Jokic should be #1 so far.

Its def Shais to lose. Playoff history matters for Mvp voting even tho its a regular season award and shouldnt matter.

Jokic wouldve 3peated Mvp and gotten Embiids if he went further in playoffs but there was loud talks of this guy shouldnt have 3 Mvps w/ 0 rings or early playoff exits. Nuggets had the biggest game 7 choke ever at home last we saw them in playoffs. Shai was 2nd in Mvp last season and some thought he shouldve won it if he and Jokic continue to dominate Shai will have the narrative no doubt

It’s Shais to lose but playoff history matters?

The thunder beat the injury riddled Pels who weren’t even a playoff team at that point then got absolutely dog walked by the Mavs.

Yes weve seen it time and time again a player w/ playoff woes or recent bad outing is penalized in Mvp voting

I dont think you know what dog walked means. Mavs barely scraped by Okc. Both teams scored 636 points that series and Okc had biggest blowout win of the series. 2 of Mavs wins came in 1 possession game including game 6 where Mavs had to rally and won the game at the Ft line in the last 2 seconds

[HotRocks34]

Jokic is the clear MVP. The team is a joke without him.

[Green89]

I resisted making a thread haha but at least have to post this. For the "Tatum is a wuss and not clutch" crowd.

https://www.nba.com/news/starting-5-nov-17-deaaron-foxs-historic-2-day-heater-jayson-tatum-calls-game

Since the 2019-20 season, Tatum has hit seven game-winning shots in the last five seconds of a game (regular season and Playoffs)

His seven game-winners in the final five seconds are the most by any NBA player in that span, followed by Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (6), Luka Dončić (5) and Ja Morant (5)

Read on Twitter

JT calls game NBA calls travel lol

Since they didn't call the foul seconds earlier on Jaylen Brown, they definitely weren't going to call that travel. Brown would have won the game at the free throw line anyway, had they called the foul.

[Chessboxer]

If cavs end up with the best record this season donovan mitchell should be the mvp.

sure...lol

Mitchell: ORTG 115, DRTG 111
that is, the Cavs with Mitchell on the floor score 115 PTS per 100 possesions and get scored on 111 PTS

conversly:

Mobley: ORTG 118, DRTG 107
Garland: ORTG 126, DRTG 113
Allen: ORTG 132, DRTG 106

Mitchell is having a good season but come on now..

I get that the Cavs are undefeated but they're doing it by commitee. Tatum didn't win it last year despite being 1st in the standings by a mile and playing better than Mitchell has been playing this season. Booker (or CP3 who was the real driver) didn't win it in 2022 despite having the best record which was much better than the real MVP contenders records

in 2025, 23/4/4 does not an MVP make

besides, you can make ten different good arguments about Mitchell NOT being the best or most impactful player on this Cavs team so "best team best player" doesn't really apply

There's been many players who had better pure raw stats than the mvp winner in the past. Steve Nash for example set a precedent winning mvp twice despite relatively pedestrian stats but won bc of his overall offensive impact. The gap in stats between tatum and mitchell is prettt marginal but the difference wss the win column bc celtics had much better team. Cavs core had alot of talent but we're hampered by injuries.

This season mitchell raw stats are down compqred to last season and prior seasons but keep in mind his minutes are down but now he's making his team play better by sacrificing own his stats and playing more unselfish ball. I call this the tim duncan effect.

I dont think its debatable Mitchell is by far the best player on the cavs and the main reason why the cavs have the best record in the league this season. Hes always been an impactful player and not a guy just putting up big numbers on bad teams. carrying a mediocre talented jazz team from lottery to makinf tge playoffs since his rookie year mind you w/ an offensively inept Rudy gobert as his 2nd best payer to the #1 seed in the west that year.

Now the same thing is happening except this time he has more talented players surrounding him. What the cavs are doing now is what I and some other ppl imagined cavs would be last season or few seasons ago after acquiring Mitchell but they just been unlucky with injuries. Now the cavs are all healthy. Knock on wood.

Agreed, but the MVP has also morphed into some analytics/offensive stats award. As long as Jokic puts up big numbers on great efficiency he will win no matter what his seeding his. Team record actually matters less than it used too, even Curry won his first MVP averaging 24ppg a game if I recall, but he led his team to the best record in the league. Giannis led his team to the best record in the league in 22'/23' averaging 30/10 without his second best player, and he was an afterthought in MVP voting.

Jokic will win it again this season, but I really hope other deserving players get an opportunity to win the award next year. If MJ was judged by the same criteria as him he would have won 8 or 9 MVPs easily.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic playing on this Nuggets team

[AleksandarN]

sure...lol

Mitchell: ORTG 115, DRTG 111
that is, the Cavs with Mitchell on the floor score 115 PTS per 100 possesions and get scored on 111 PTS

conversly:

Mobley: ORTG 118, DRTG 107
Garland: ORTG 126, DRTG 113
Allen: ORTG 132, DRTG 106

Mitchell is having a good season but come on now..

I get that the Cavs are undefeated but they're doing it by commitee. Tatum didn't win it last year despite being 1st in the standings by a mile and playing better than Mitchell has been playing this season. Booker (or CP3 who was the real driver) didn't win it in 2022 despite having the best record which was much better than the real MVP contenders records

in 2025, 23/4/4 does not an MVP make

besides, you can make ten different good arguments about Mitchell NOT being the best or most impactful player on this Cavs team so "best team best player" doesn't really apply

There's been many players who had better pure raw stats than the mvp winner in the past. Steve Nash for example set a precedent winning mvp twice despite relatively pedestrian stats but won bc of his overall offensive impact. The gap in stats between tatum and mitchell is prettt marginal but the difference wss the win column bc celtics had much better team. Cavs core had alot of talent but we're hampered by injuries.

This season mitchell raw stats are down compqred to last season and prior seasons but keep in mind his minutes are down but now he's making his team play better by sacrificing own his stats and playing more unselfish ball. I call this the tim duncan effect.

I dont think its debatable Mitchell is by far the best player on the cavs and the main reason why the cavs have the best record in the league this season. Hes always been an impactful player and not a guy just putting up big numbers on bad teams. carrying a mediocre talented jazz team from lottery to makinf tge playoffs since his rookie year mind you w/ an offensively inept Rudy gobert as his 2nd best payer to the #1 seed in the west that year.

Now the same thing is happening except this time he has more talented players surrounding him. What the cavs are doing now is what I and some other ppl imagined cavs would be last season or few seasons ago after acquiring Mitchell but they just been unlucky with injuries. Now the cavs are all healthy. Knock on wood.

Agreed, but the MVP has also morphed into some analytics/offensive stats award. As long as Jokic puts up big numbers on great efficiency he will win no matter what his seeding his. His track record proves that as he's never led his team to the best record in the league like other multiple MVP winners. Team record actually matters less than it used too, even Curry won his first MVP averaging 24ppg a game if I recall, but he led his team to the best record in the league. Giannis led his team to the best record in the league in 22'/23' averaging 30/10 without his second best player, and he was an afterthought in MVP voting.

Jokic will win it again this season, but I really hope other deserving players get an opportunity to win the award next year. If MJ was judged by the same criteria as him he would have won 8 or 9 MVPs easily.

To reduce it to just stats shows you don’t really watch much Nuggets games. They can’t even beat a short handed Pelicans and Grizzlies team without him. Jokic has no Allstar no all nba team member to help him out. You look at this nuggets team sans Jokic can’t even crack 100 pts against the Pelicans one of the worse defensive teams in league and the Grizzlies. To say it is only offensive stats is a disservice. He is winning because he is the most important player that affects winning.

[Woodsanity]

sure...lol

Mitchell: ORTG 115, DRTG 111
that is, the Cavs with Mitchell on the floor score 115 PTS per 100 possesions and get scored on 111 PTS

conversly:

Mobley: ORTG 118, DRTG 107
Garland: ORTG 126, DRTG 113
Allen: ORTG 132, DRTG 106

Mitchell is having a good season but come on now..

I get that the Cavs are undefeated but they're doing it by commitee. Tatum didn't win it last year despite being 1st in the standings by a mile and playing better than Mitchell has been playing this season. Booker (or CP3 who was the real driver) didn't win it in 2022 despite having the best record which was much better than the real MVP contenders records

in 2025, 23/4/4 does not an MVP make

besides, you can make ten different good arguments about Mitchell NOT being the best or most impactful player on this Cavs team so "best team best player" doesn't really apply

There's been many players who had better pure raw stats than the mvp winner in the past. Steve Nash for example set a precedent winning mvp twice despite relatively pedestrian stats but won bc of his overall offensive impact. The gap in stats between tatum and mitchell is prettt marginal but the difference wss the win column bc celtics had much better team. Cavs core had alot of talent but we're hampered by injuries.

This season mitchell raw stats are down compqred to last season and prior seasons but keep in mind his minutes are down but now he's making his team play better by sacrificing own his stats and playing more unselfish ball. I call this the tim duncan effect.

I dont think its debatable Mitchell is by far the best player on the cavs and the main reason why the cavs have the best record in the league this season. Hes always been an impactful player and not a guy just putting up big numbers on bad teams. carrying a mediocre talented jazz team from lottery to makinf tge playoffs since his rookie year mind you w/ an offensively inept Rudy gobert as his 2nd best payer to the #1 seed in the west that year.

Now the same thing is happening except this time he has more talented players surrounding him. What the cavs are doing now is what I and some other ppl imagined cavs would be last season or few seasons ago after acquiring Mitchell but they just been unlucky with injuries. Now the cavs are all healthy. Knock on wood.

Agreed, but the MVP has also morphed into some analytics/offensive stats award. As long as Jokic puts up big numbers on great efficiency he will win no matter what his seeding his. Team record actually matters less than it used too, even Curry won his first MVP averaging 24ppg a game if I recall, but he led his team to the best record in the league. Giannis led his team to the best record in the league in 22'/23' averaging 30/10 without his second best player, and he was an afterthought in MVP voting.

Jokic will win it again this season, but I really hope other deserving players get an opportunity to win the award next year. If MJ was judged by the same criteria as him he would have won 8 or 9 MVPs easily.

MJ's bulls were able to win 55 games when MJ retired. Talk about stacked teams.

The nuggets minus jokic would be lucky to win 30.

[famicommander]

Jokic is a better defensive player than anyone thinks he is, too. He has some obvious weaknesses but the Nuggets are consistently better on defense with him on the floor than without him, even though most of his backups have been or are defensive specialists.

Last season Jokic was 4th in the NBA in defensive rating, 1st in defensive box plus minus, 2nd in defensive win shares, 2nd in defensive rebounds, 8th in steals, 33rd in blocks, and 5th in deflections.

[zimpy27]

Davis got the best stats and is on a top 5 team in the league record-wise..
If that hold I think he'd be in discussion with SGA and Tatum.

Jokic seems unlikely to get 4 MVPs unless Nuggets get to a top 5 record.

[Slax]

Davis got the best stats and is on a top 5 team in the league record-wise..
If that hold I think he'd be in discussion with SGA and Tatum.

Jokic seems unlikely to get 4 MVPs unless Nuggets get to a top 5 record.

If Jokic actually were to keep up what he's currently doing for a full season, that would be GOAT level single-season productivity and impact. As long as the Nuggets make the playoffs with a winning record, it's hard for me to imagine him failing to win the MVP with those types of numbers, regardless of voter fatigue or lack of dominating team success. If he regresses to the mean or misses a lot of time to injury, or the Nuggets end up with a disappointing record or especially if they miss the playoffs, that would radically change this discussion.

[p0peye]

Jokic playing on this Nuggets team

Better approximation:

[Packbuckman]

Davis got the best stats and is on a top 5 team in the league record-wise..
If that hold I think he'd be in discussion with SGA and Tatum.

Jokic seems unlikely to get 4 MVPs unless Nuggets get to a top 5 record.

If Jokic actually were to keep up what he's currently doing for a full season, that would be GOAT level single-season productivity and impact. As long as the Nuggets make the playoffs with a winning record, it's hard for me to imagine him failing to win the MVP with those types of numbers, regardless of voter fatigue or lack of dominating team success. If he regresses to the mean or misses a lot of time to injury, or the Nuggets end up with a disappointing record or especially if they miss the playoffs, that would radically change this discussion.

Jokic is not winning 4th mvp if his team is a 6th seed just like Giannis isn’t either with another historic season. Record does matter especially to players that have won multiple mvp awards already.

[Slax]

Davis got the best stats and is on a top 5 team in the league record-wise..
If that hold I think he'd be in discussion with SGA and Tatum.

Jokic seems unlikely to get 4 MVPs unless Nuggets get to a top 5 record.

If Jokic actually were to keep up what he's currently doing for a full season, that would be GOAT level single-season productivity and impact. As long as the Nuggets make the playoffs with a winning record, it's hard for me to imagine him failing to win the MVP with those types of numbers, regardless of voter fatigue or lack of dominating team success. If he regresses to the mean or misses a lot of time to injury, or the Nuggets end up with a disappointing record or especially if they miss the playoffs, that would radically change this discussion.

Jokic is not winning 4th mvp if his team is a 6th seed just like Giannis isn’t either with another historic season. Record does matter especially to players that have won multiple mvp awards already.

I'm not ruling it out, maybe I'll be proven wrong. But if Jokic is leading the league in assists and rebounds and he's a rounding error away from 30 ppg and he's at a .667 TS% and he has a +31.3 on/off and all the advanced metrics have him substantially better than other players being discussed and he's single-handedly keeping what would otherwise be a deep lottery team out of the play-in, the novelty of how good that season is would be so hard to pass up that it's really difficult for me to envision voters going against him solely because his team is at 48 wins and they're tired of giving him MVP awards. It's such a level of extreme domination that may never be repeated, it would look weird if you didn't give him MVP for it.

That said, as a Celtics fan, I would be perfectly happy if you're right, because Tatum may seems to be on an inside track of early MVP contenders if Jokic isn't in the running.

[HotRocks34]

Looks like another runaway for Jokic as he's dominating again and his team is awful without him.

Jokic leads the league in RPG and APG and he's going for another advanced stats trifecta for the fifth straight year.

Kareem won five MVPs with just one ring and Jokic may be on a similar trajectory.

[CobraCommander]

Looks like another runaway for Jokic as he's dominating again and his team is awful without him.

Jokic leads the league in RPG and APG and he's going for another advanced stats trifecta for the fifth straight year.

Kareem won five MVPs with just one ring and Jokic may be on a similar trajectory.

Looks like Tatum and SGA only two really threatening him and they wayyyyy in the rear view -

Giannis gonna have stats but not the wins and people waiting for AD to get hurt -

edwards is Lurking but not really -

Jokic just owns basketball right now -