Toumani Camara's trade value

[hugepatsfan]

If he continues to be a quality 3&D guy, TRULY brining both of those then his value will shoot up. As of now though, I don't think teams would give up a ton of value for him. It takes a lot for a limited role player to be traded for big value. Teams just don't want to have their picks tied up on guys like that. On the other side though, teams in POR's position have no reason to deal guys like this for less than huge value.

There's a reason we very rarely see players like this dealt. Marginal prospects who "break out" as good role players just aren't moved much this early in their careers. The things that made them a marginal prospect will prevent the buying teams from giving up a ton and the mini "break out" while on a cheap multi year deal means the current team has no incentive to trade for a marginal return.

Neither side is "wrong" for their stance here.

[Scoot McGroot]

So it’s ridiculous to think that POR might prefer to keep him than to get a mid FRP but not ridiculous for another team to be willing to move a FRP to obtain him?

You may be right about his shot and his value. POR has no incentive to move him to maybe find a similar replacement. POR will just oblige those teams to try their luck in the draft.

Young, cheap, improving and with an in-demand skill set is something every team wants.

I think we are talking about Value, not what does Portland need to move him for. If Portland says they want 3 firsts for him and nobody is offering more than 1 first, what is his trade value?

Value could be defined as to what seller is willing to accept and the market willing to pay.

Those don’t often meet though. So which one is the value? What the market is willing to pay? Or what the holder is willing to accept? It seems like JMAC3 is arguing what “the market [is] willing to pay”, while you’re arguing “what [the] seller is willing to accept”, and they don’t meet to determine an answer.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

The answer is both and neither because trade value is not an objective quality, I've often tried to break it down into the idea of two values (what it takes to get a player from a team and what the best offer is from other teams) that only when they happen to align do trades ever happen. Even the best data points we have (actual trades) often end up looking like imperfect metrics in hindsight. And then this already subjective evaluation is not a static quality through a players career but changes with salary and production and health and age. In fact in some ways I think trades often happen when two GMs simply value a player differently, maybe he brings a needed skill set to one team that is redundant on the other team, or one team is subjected to greater financial limitations than the other.

So trade value is not something we can hold onto tightly, it is a concept we should approach more delicately. I personally think threads like these are trap threads designed to make the home team fans look like they overrate their own players so everyone can laugh at them. Toumani is not a household name and really just took a big step this year so I don't think folks are really seeing and appreciating what is is doing, but shhh saying that breaks one of the unspoken rules here, that everyone else knows the Blazer players as well as Blazer fans, and maybe better cuz they aren't biased. Like the comment that he could fall out of the rotation by mid-season if his shooting comes back to earth is absurd to me if you actually see the high effort and full court defense and low mistakes. He's a coaches dream out there because he hustles all the time, is almost always in the right spot, and makes high IQ plays on both ends. The shooting is just the cherry on top, it is not why he is getting minutes. But noooo everyone gets equal say so DBR gotta shut his mouth now. And it's probably a good thing because if I keep going I'm gonna break another unspoken rule here which is that not every player has to be for sale. Oh of course I'm not trying to say you all can't discuss trading Toumani, people can discuss anything they want it's a free board, but I just mean that I don't think any team would make a worthwhile offer, he's worth more to us than to other teams. I mean I think he has more value than Deni who went for a late lottery pick and a future 1st but if we suggest that is what Toumani is worth it will bring nothing but ridicule here. So it's kind of like what's the point in tilting at windmills, this board can talk itself silly and folks can say he is worth a couple seconds rounders and round and round we go because we are discussing a subjective and moving target.

[Andre Roberstan]

The answer is both and neither because trade value is not an objective quality, I've often tried to break it down into the idea of two values (what it takes to get a player from a team and what the best offer is from other teams) that only when they happen to align do trades ever happen. Even the best data points we have (actual trades) often end up looking like imperfect metrics in hindsight. And then this already subjective evaluation is not a static quality through a players career but changes with salary and production and health and age. In fact in some ways I think trades often happen when two GMs simply value a player differently, maybe he brings a needed skill set to one team that is redundant on the other team, or one team is subjected to greater financial limitations than the other.

Holy wall of text Batman, but this; I kinda hate trade value threads for this reason. Value is not really able to be boiled down to a single number because it's different for every team and every situation.

[JRoy]

The answer is both and neither because trade value is not an objective quality, I've often tried to break it down into the idea of two values (what it takes to get a player from a team and what the best offer is from other teams) that only when they happen to align do trades ever happen. Even the best data points we have (actual trades) often end up looking like imperfect metrics in hindsight. And then this already subjective evaluation is not a static quality through a players career but changes with salary and production and health and age. In fact in some ways I think trades often happen when two GMs simply value a player differently, maybe he brings a needed skill set to one team that is redundant on the other team, or one team is subjected to greater financial limitations than the other.

So trade value is not something we can hold onto tightly, it is a concept we should approach more delicately. I personally think threads like these are trap threads designed to make the home team fans look like they overrate their own players so everyone can laugh at them. Toumani is not a household name and really just took a big step this year so I don't think folks are really seeing and appreciating what is is doing, but shhh saying that breaks one of the unspoken rules here, that everyone else knows the Blazer players as well as Blazer fans, and maybe better cuz they aren't biased. Like the comment that he could fall out of the rotation by mid-season if his shooting comes back to earth is absurd to me if you actually see the high effort and full court defense and low mistakes. He's a coaches dream out there because he hustles all the time, is almost always in the right spot, and makes high IQ plays on both ends. The shooting is just the cherry on top, it is not why he is getting minutes. But noooo everyone gets equal say so DBR gotta shut his mouth now. And it's probably a good thing because if I keep going I'm gonna break another unspoken rule here which is that not every player has to be for sale. Oh of course I'm not trying to say you all can't discuss trading Toumani, people can discuss anything they want it's a free board, but I just mean that I don't think any team would make a worthwhile offer, he's worth more to us than to other teams. I mean I think he has more value than Deni who went for a late lottery pick and a future 1st but if we suggest that is what Toumani is worth it will bring nothing but ridicule here. So it's kind of like what's the point in tilting at windmills, this board can talk itself silly and folks can say he is worth a couple seconds rounders and round and round we go because we are discussing a subjective and moving target.

That is a pretty nuanced opinion for us RealGMs.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Careful, we might just have a productive conversation even