PG: KNICKS Whoop The G-League Wizzez!!

[Moose]

the houston and atlanta losses are the only ones that legit pissed me off because they felt like games we didn't show up for, which exacerbated my frustration with the (somewhat understandable) indiana revenge L. chicago L sucked but we didn't deserve to win that game.

but, these things take time.

also, the sky will be falling again at the next 1L of 82.

the worst loss for me was against the cavs. they were undefeated yet we had them for most of the game. down the stretch we coughed the ball up too much, partially because it felt like brunson was playing against donovan mitchell and handing them a bunch of rebounds on misses. that scenario really frustrated me, but i know we got something for those guys next time we see em

The Cavs match up is one where not having Mitch made a big difference. We couldn't control the paint/glass against them, but with Mitch pushing Josh back to the bench we'd be bigger than them across the board...while still having the better shooting. Not to mention the spark Josh brings when he comes off the bench.

I doubt they will start Mitch. He may be capped at 20-24 minutes a game.

But if they did start Mitch or another center... it may sound a little crazy, but Bridges off the bench may be the way to go instead of Hart.

[cgf]

Why would Mitch replace Josh rather than take on an expanded Sims role?

I don't think greater chemistry will fix our rim protection issues with KAT at the 5, especially against the top teams. Towns has improved a lot since I watched the Timberbulls regularly, but he's still just not a good rim protector and asking him to do is just asking him to rack up the fouls...which his clumsiness does a good enough job of already.

So I think our best form will be similar to last year's wolves only with better shooting around Karl...with Mitch protecting the paint, Karl playing the 4, Bridges & Anunoby wrecking havoc, and Jalen doing his thing. That lineup should be a real force defensively, while still lighting teams up with 4 high end shooters around the league's premier offensive rebounder.


Plus I think Hart makes more of an impact when he comes off the bench. It's good for him to get comfortable starting because it's not unlikely that one of Robinson or Anunoby is injured at some point during a playoff run...but at our best, I think he's coming off the bench with Deuce to juice our energy or beat up on 2nd/heavily-blended units.


But Thibs is a center whisperer, so no harm seeing if he can't teach Karl to protect the rim without fouling until we get Mitch / Precious back, and let the guys build chemistry with this smaller lineup just to have that option in games where we're locking a team up but struggling to open them up ourselves.

Because ultimately your best lineup to attack one team might not be the same as your best lineup to attack another...but against the Cavs, I think we'd really beat them up if we went big.

I think we will pair Mitch with KAT opportunistically, but the whole rationale of the KAT trade was the offensive advantage he provides at the 5. The bet is that an elite offense is more important to contention than a top defense. Plus, Hart has been phenomenal in his role as the secondary creator and do-everything glue guy.

Obviously, you let the game speak to you on a night to night basis, but I think we can pretty much put KAT getting 25-30 mins a night at the 5 in pen, even with a healthy Mitch and Precious, otherwise we don't maximize him. KAT at the 4 allows the other team to guard him with a big wing and basically just ignore Mitch defensively.

We'll see, but I don't think it's any coincidence that Minnesota only took off after pairing Karl with a proper rim protector. Yes the offensive advantage he provides at the 5 is even greater, and Hart has done well, but he's still an elite offensive weapon at the 4 who can beat up on smaller defenders inside & pull bigger defenders to the perimeter.

Like let's look at the Cavs matchup, if they ignored Mitch he'd stomp on their souls again on the offensive glass, occupying Allen / providing an easy dumpoff when JAfro goes to help. And Karl would still have the size advantage over Mobley, while having the shooting to pull him out of the paint.

But you're right that it likely won't be set in stone and will vary...especially against weaker opponents.

[cgf]

yeah Mitch is not coming back to start...they aren't going to expose him to starters minutes either with his injury history.

This is our starting unit. Precious and Mitch will compliment and be used in different rotations depending on the team.

Hart has bene like our best connective piece and is the only one that pushes the pace and gets easy baskets.

The KAT trade was made for him to start at the 5 and make an elite offense and then hopefully be able to manage at least an avg level defense.

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

[mpharris36]

The thing with playing KAT at the 5 is if it makes our offense good enough to offset his defense at the 5. So far it hasn’t against contenders (Bos, Cleveland).

BOS game was just a disaster....I still want to chalk that up as ring ceremony night and our first game with new team. BOS was making everything.

The CLE game we were up double digits late in the second half and just collapsed. Brunson was 8-24 in that game and he typically torches the Cavs. We looked good for 3 qtrs against the cavs...we probably gave them there biggest scare this season we just couldn't close out the game.

I also think you have to factor in the team needing time to gel. The goal is to have this team running like a machine come playoff time and for the net 2-3 seasons. You can't really judge the concept viability after 10 games.

Yeah this is true...we are clearly seeing the assists go up way more than early in the season. Brunson already looks way more comfortable making better reads.

KAT is also facilitating better as well.

We are finding cutters more often (especially OG).

Hart is also playing more on ball in that draymond roll so they are figuring stuff out.

Ideally you want to be peaking later in the season.

[mpharris36]

yeah Mitch is not coming back to start...they aren't going to expose him to starters minutes either with his injury history.

This is our starting unit. Precious and Mitch will compliment and be used in different rotations depending on the team.

Hart has bene like our best connective piece and is the only one that pushes the pace and gets easy baskets.

The KAT trade was made for him to start at the 5 and make an elite offense and then hopefully be able to manage at least an avg level defense.

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if we are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

[GONYK]

yeah Mitch is not coming back to start...they aren't going to expose him to starters minutes either with his injury history.

This is our starting unit. Precious and Mitch will compliment and be used in different rotations depending on the team.

Hart has bene like our best connective piece and is the only one that pushes the pace and gets easy baskets.

The KAT trade was made for him to start at the 5 and make an elite offense and then hopefully be able to manage at least an avg level defense.

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all and we have more tools off the bench to be opportunistically elite than they did.

[cgf]

yeah Mitch is not coming back to start...they aren't going to expose him to starters minutes either with his injury history.

This is our starting unit. Precious and Mitch will compliment and be used in different rotations depending on the team.

Hart has bene like our best connective piece and is the only one that pushes the pace and gets easy baskets.

The KAT trade was made for him to start at the 5 and make an elite offense and then hopefully be able to manage at least an avg level defense.

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

That's fair, I just don't expect our rim protection problems to go away with more chemistry. I think it was seeing Karl thrive next to Gobert that really sold them on the idea. They can give Karl at the 5 a shot while Mitch is out / ramping up, but assuming that goes as expected, they'll have a solution ready to go. Letting us beat teams up with an elite offense AND defense.

[cgf]

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all and we have more tools off the bench to be opportunistically elite than they did.

Denver didn't have to go through these Celtics, they are top 5 on both sides of the ball. If we want to win a ring that should be our goal. Maybe we win a ring with an elite offense and adequate defense, but I think our goal needs to be to be elite on both sides of the ball.

[mpharris36]

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all.

correct I don't think we need a top 10 defense with how good our offense can be. I also don't think being 21st is good enough either.

There is probably a happy medium to go to 15 or better probably where if we have the #1 or #2 ranked offense we should be good enough to get where we want to go.

[mpharris36]

They'll ease mitch back in when he's cleared, but that doesn't mean he won't move into the starting lineup again as he gets into game shape. Especially if Karl doesn't suddenly learn to defend the rim without hacking & whacking.

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

That's fair, I just don't expect our rim protection problems to go away with more chemistry. I think it was seeing Karl thrive next to Gobert that really sold them on the idea. They can give Karl at the 5 a shot while Mitch is out / ramping up, but assuming that goes as expected, they'll have a solution ready to go. Letting us beat teams up with an elite offense AND defense.

It will ultimately come down to NET ratings...if KAT's offense at the 5 exceeds the lack of rim protection at the 5 then we will stick with it.

Mitch and Precious will be a good supplement though. It gives Thibs more options during the game.

[GONYK]

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all and we have more tools off the bench to be opportunistically elite than they did.

Denver didn't have to go through these Celtics, they are top 5 on both sides of the ball. If we want to win a ring that should be our goal. Maybe we win a ring with an elite offense and adequate defense, but I think our goal needs to be to be elite on both sides of the ball.

You will not have both if you're starting a non-scoring threat C. You have to choose one or the other. Minnesota with Gobert/KAT were in the bottom half of the league offensively.

[GONYK]

well yes by the time Mitch comes back healthy is is ready to up his minutes we should have a real good sample size of what this team can do with KAT at the 5.

If we are playing well we won't be switching up anything...if he are still playing just ok ball and mostly because our defense isn't up to snuff you can in theory see a change down the road.

Mitch will be situation. Matchups with teams with size Mitch might see closer to 30 mins...vs smaller teams he probably just plays the current Sims role off the bench.

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all.

correct I don't think we need a top 10 defense with how good our offense can be. I also don't think being 21st is good enough either.

There is probably a happy medium to go to 15 or better probably where if we have the #1 or #2 ranked offense we should be good enough to get where we want to go.

Yup. That's why I said we can be opportunistically elite. When Mitch and Precious come back, I think we can settle into the 12-15 range. Especially if Mikal gets more comfortable in his defensive role.

[mpharris36]

I genuinely don't think the primary goal is to have an elite defense. You really just need it to be in the top half of the league if your offense is elite. That's how Denver won it all.

correct I don't think we need a top 10 defense with how good our offense can be. I also don't think being 21st is good enough either.

There is probably a happy medium to go to 15 or better probably where if we have the #1 or #2 ranked offense we should be good enough to get where we want to go.

Yup. That's why I said we can be opportunistically elite. When Mitch and Precious come back, I think we can settle into the 12-15 range. Especially if Mikal gets more comfortable in his defensive role.

good thing last few games I have seen positive signs for Mikal.

[sol537]

-> I don't mind Mikal not taking free throws... keep his body fresh and stay hitting those middy's
-> I want to see KAT at the 4 with a competent big (Precious?) to see how it does
-> We should play at a faster pace... the offense flows so much better when we get into it quicker
-> No trades needed right now... Deuce, Precious, and Mitch returning will be like making in-season additions

[The KnicksFix]

WHERE MY GAME THREAD AT FOR PHEONIX BUZZ LETS GO U ON THE CLOCK!

It's been up for hours.

Well damn lolol

[The KnicksFix]

-> I don't mind Mikal not taking free throws... keep his body fresh and stay hitting those middy's
-> I want to see KAT at the 4 with a competent big (Precious?) to see how it does
-> We should play at a faster pace... the offense flows so much better when we get into it quicker
-> No trades needed right now... Deuce, Precious, and Mitch returning will be like making in-season additions

The Mitch one is huge, definitely like in season addition, imagine replacing sims with Mitch, then adding precious on top just cause… That’s two major additions, def agree

[GONYK]

-> I don't mind Mikal not taking free throws... keep his body fresh and stay hitting those middy's
-> I want to see KAT at the 4 with a competent big (Precious?) to see how it does
-> We should play at a faster pace... the offense flows so much better when we get into it quicker
-> No trades needed right now... Deuce, Precious, and Mitch returning will be like making in-season additions

The Mitch one is huge, definitely like in season addition, imagine replacing sims with Mitch, then adding precious on top just cause… That’s two major additions, def agree

And we'll be getting Shamet back at some point. Not as significant, but it will have an impact on the rotations.

[JayTWill]

Based on the success Minnesota had with KAT at the 4 next to Gobert I assumed Thibs would give minutes to KAT at the 4 next to Mitch but considering the team is currently missing their backup 4 i'm a bit surprised we have not seen a single minute of KAT at the 4. If the plan is to give minutes to KAT at the 4 why wait until January when Mitch returns and Precious is already back to see if KAT functions well at the 4 under Thibs? Has he Thibs said anything previously about KAT playing the 4?

[GONYK]

Based on the success Minnesota had with KAT at the 4 next to Gobert I assumed Thibs would give minutes to KAT at the 4 next to Mitch but considering the team is currently missing their backup 4 i'm a bit surprised we have not seen a single minute of KAT at the 4. If the plan is to give minutes to KAT at the 4 why wait until January when Mitch returns and Precious is already back to see if KAT functions well at the 4 under Thibs? Has he Thibs said anything previously about KAT playing the 4?

Because it's not the plan

[sol537]

-> I don't mind Mikal not taking free throws... keep his body fresh and stay hitting those middy's
-> I want to see KAT at the 4 with a competent big (Precious?) to see how it does
-> We should play at a faster pace... the offense flows so much better when we get into it quicker
-> No trades needed right now... Deuce, Precious, and Mitch returning will be like making in-season additions

The Mitch one is huge, definitely like in season addition, imagine replacing sims with Mitch, then adding precious on top just cause… That’s two major additions, def agree

And we'll be getting Shamet back at some point. Not as significant, but it will have an impact on the rotations.

Shamet probably takes Dadiet's rare minutes. In the playoffs, Thibs won't go more than 8. Deuce, Payne and then one of Mitch or Precious depending on how they play this season and match-ups. Injuries may come into play as well like last season. I do think we should do a 9-man rotation, even in the playoffs even if it means Payne and Precious only get 10 mins a piece and Mitch is at 18 minutes and Deuce gets 24 or so minutes. Would allow our starters to finish games strong.