Official RJ Barrett Thread

[Morris_Shatford]

We are 12 months removed from the talking heads referring to Barrett's contract as a "toxic asset".

[Shwaguy]

I can't believe someone suggested a 6th man role for RJ on this roster. Some of you are just cynics and theres no changing that.

Depends who we draft. Overall it comes down to a preference of starting Gradey or RJ if we draft a wing.

I don't see RJ coming off the bench for anyone until later in his career. Just being honest. It's a lot easier to sell Gradey on being the next Tyler Hero.

Regarding who we draft........that player will have to prove they deserve to start over RJ (and Gradey). Maybe they spend a year or 2 on the bench......who knows.

People act like its a sure thing that we are drafting the next Kevin Durant this coming draft.

Prefer to sell RJ as the next Manu than Gradey as the next Herro.

It all depends on who they draft though yes. If they win the Flagg sweepstakes though it should be RJ playing 30-35 minutes off the bench. Or maybe we get really experimental and try him at the 1 and IQ off the bench playing 30. I'd feel the same way with Bailey as well. But if they get Harper, Edgecombe, Maluach etc I can see it maybe being Gradey (Not really though)

I do not see any world where it makes sense for Gradey be a long term bench guy. 1) In the long term he is the 2nd most important player to this franchise as of now. and 2) Makes way more sense to pair the guy who spaces the floor very well, has a tonne of gravity, and is less ball dominant in the starting lineup with Scottie, than with RJ who's game has some overlap with Scottie.

[Shwaguy]

Long term I would be quite intrigued by a Point RJ starting lineup.

Like say they have some lotto luck and get Flagg or Bailey.

RJ/Gradey/Barnes/Flagg/Poeltl next year I think would be a really intriguing lineup.

Maybe would be better with IQ starting though, idk. The spacing an IQ/Gradey backcourt could bring for a Barnes/Flagg or Barnes/Bailey frontcourt would be really tempting.

[Shwaguy]

The one thing I know for sure is that Gradey should NOT be a long term bench guy. Maybe it happens this year, but next year going forward if he's a bench guy something has gone wrong. What he brings to the table for the would be starting lineup can't be replaced.

[tsherkin]

Scottie: Improve outside shooting. Be more aggressive offensively. Limit unforced turnovers. Needs a go to move.[/quote[

Needs a more reliable outside shot, needs a handle, needs more consistent aggression, yeah. He moves the ball well and he bullies guys in close pretty well. That short game inside 10 feet is pretty solid. If he were consistently able to draw fouls, he'd be pretty nice even without a 3. Would be interesting to see what happened if we made him a PF for a while and kept him down low with spacing around him.

RJ: Poor mid range game. Needs to improve defensive footwork. Needs to improve FT shooting.

FT and 3pt shooting (especially something resembling consistency from 3) would be nice. The team as a whole needs to help him get more 3s from the corner than from above the break, though. That would immediately help. More passing support in general. He isn't a high-end focal scorer, so we need to find a way to stop leaning on him like one, or his flaws will be exacerbated, for what seem obvious reasons.

Would be really awesome if RJ had a nice pull-up from the elbows and the nail. Maybe a post fade. Would help settle him down, open things up a little more, give the D something else to think about. A counter when they wall off the paint.

Gradey: Needs to work on strength. Poor defender. Inconsistent offensively.

Strength and D for sure. His O has been pretty reasonable. Up and down, but he's also jumper-heavy, so that's somewhat inevitable. He actually only has 3 games under 14 points, though, and has been reasonably consistent. He shoots a lot of 3s, so his raw FG% is up and down, and he's been consistently getting around 3 or 4 FTA/g outside of that one big game, which is also pretty solid for a guy mostly taking around 7 3PA/g among his 14 or 15 FGA/g.

At 14-17 FGA/g, he's actually looking pretty nice on O. When we ask him to extend out to 20+, it starts getting shakier, but overall, consistency hasn't been a HUUUUGE issue for him, really. And most of his problems are "young guy" problems which will likely develop with time. He has the appropriate tools to lean on in order to be a solid to good scoring threat on a nightly basis.

[raincityraptors]

If salaries weren't an issue would you trade RJ for Siakam straight up? I wouldn't but RJ is my favorite player.

Does anyone else think his value has surpassed Pascal's?

[Vampirate]

If salaries weren't an issue would you trade RJ for Siakam straight up? I wouldn't but RJ is my favorite player.

Does anyone else think his value has surpassed Pascal's?

No lol, say what you want on Siakam but Siakam has been a 20 pts, 60% TS the last few years.

The only real knock on Siakam is age.

RJ needs a much longer sample size of last season's efficiency to even have this as a convo. Maybe in 4 years time when Siakam is approaching near the end of his prime, if he isn't there at that point.

[LoveMyRaps]

If salaries weren't an issue would you trade RJ for Siakam straight up? I wouldn't but RJ is my favorite player.

Does anyone else think his value has surpassed Pascal's?

Siakam is a significantly better player but RJ is a A LOT younger.

If Siakam was 27, I'd do it.

[KillaSham23]

RJ is my favorite Raptor on this team

[YogurtProducer]

I can't believe someone suggested a 6th man role for RJ on this roster. Some of you are just cynics and theres no changing that.

I mean, he still is averaging only a 51TS% this season.

As a poor defender and not and elite scorer, he still might be better sutied off the bench long term

[Scase]

I can't believe someone suggested a 6th man role for RJ on this roster. Some of you are just cynics and theres no changing that.

Mans literally has to go in the record books just to keep haters off his ass for a few days.

He will be a good 3rd or 4th option, let the kid live.

He wouldn't have to if he wasn't horrifically inefficient otherwise. Consistency is, and always has been the knock on RJ, and nothing has changed that to date. I would rather him be an efficient 15/5/5 than the massive swings of impact and efficiency he is now.

This isn't new criticism, it's been around since his Knicks days. You guys just come out of the wood works when he finally has a really good game.

[Boogie!]

Rj has now improved his passing and playmaking. The guy legit has been playing point forward in spurts. Again I have no idea why when you criticize one players skill set people get butthurt and act like youth and potential is everything, b then you see another young player like rj that actually has elite skills and potential that just needs more polish and comsistency, that has actually shown growth in their game, people act like they are useless, a finished product, and aren’t worth developing.

I said this in the Celtics game thread, but people were literally bitching about rj and how he’s not a long term option. In a game where he was decimating the Celtics defense with his playmaking. Yea he had an off night efficiency wise. But I 100% guarantee if it was Scottie Barnes who put up tre same stat line, and you criticized his shooting efficiency, certain people would rip your head off and tell you how you didn’t know basketball because you couldn’t see how his playmaking and passing was making a difference.

This is why I get frustrated having discussion with people. They literally have no idea how to objectively or rationally assess players using logic. It’s all emotions based on who they like more.

[Boogie!]

I can't believe someone suggested a 6th man role for RJ on this roster. Some of you are just cynics and theres no changing that.

Mans literally has to go in the record books just to keep haters off his ass for a few days.

He will be a good 3rd or 4th option, let the kid live.

He wouldn't have to if he wasn't horrifically inefficient otherwise. Consistency is, and always has been the knock on RJ, and nothing has changed that to date. I would rather him be an efficient 15/5/5 than the massive swings of impact and efficiency he is now.

This isn't new criticism, it's been around since his Knicks days. You guys just come out of the wood works when he finally has a really good game.

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

[Los_29]

Mans literally has to go in the record books just to keep haters off his ass for a few days.

He will be a good 3rd or 4th option, let the kid live.

He wouldn't have to if he wasn't horrifically inefficient otherwise. Consistency is, and always has been the knock on RJ, and nothing has changed that to date. I would rather him be an efficient 15/5/5 than the massive swings of impact and efficiency he is now.

This isn't new criticism, it's been around since his Knicks days. You guys just come out of the wood works when he finally has a really good game.

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Lower usage
Better passer
Better defensive player
Doesn’t turn the ball over
Better shooter
More efficient despite being a point guard

So many reasons why GMs and coaches view Fred as a much better player.

If RJ is going to be bad defensively and have a super high usage rate while putting up a TS% of 51% then he’s not a winning player. Plain and simple.

[tsherkin]

Rj has now improved his passing and playmaking. The guy legit has been playing point forward in spurts. Again I have no idea why when you criticize one players skill set people get butthurt and act like youth and potential is everything, b then you see another young player like rj that actually has elite skills and potential that just needs more polish and comsistency, that has actually shown growth in their game, people act like they are useless, a finished product, and aren’t worth developing.

It's something to watch.

He's pretty young, and while he has his issues, this is the definition of an experimental season. Might as well see if we can get him doing things better than he did in New York, right?

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Fred sucked at everything but long-distance shooting except for in 2022. Which made his defenders that much more frustrating.

With Demar, he was a 98 TS+ player in his first AS season. Right at the moment, RJ is at 90 TS+, which is far worse than what Demar was doing at the time. Of course, it's been 12 games, but it would be the 3rd season in 4 at 90 or 91 TS+, so it also wouldn't be that surprising if he ended up there. That said, he's also 24. Demar didn't show meaningful improvement in his scoring efficiency until he was 30 and on the Spurs. He had a little run of league-average, and one season above, but the basic template of his game was at odds with efficiency until his jumper improved. Obviously, he had incremental improvements in the RS from year to year, but it didn't really matter too much until many, many years later.

If Demar's the template, then moving on from RJ when he has value would make some sense, because that's an epoch to wait for someone and not really worth it. But we certainly have the time to see how this season goes and that might make another season of observation/experimentation could make some sense. But after that, not so much. Still, that's a lot of time where a young guy in a new situation could show some improvement.

[Boogie!]

Rj has now improved his passing and playmaking. The guy legit has been playing point forward in spurts. Again I have no idea why when you criticize one players skill set people get butthurt and act like youth and potential is everything, b then you see another young player like rj that actually has elite skills and potential that just needs more polish and comsistency, that has actually shown growth in their game, people act like they are useless, a finished product, and aren’t worth developing.

It's something to watch.

He's pretty young, and while he has his issues, this is the definition of an experimental season. Might as well see if we can get him doing things better than he did in New York, right?

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Fred sucked at everything but long-distance shooting except for in 2022. Which made his defenders that much more frustrating.

With Demar, he was a 98 TS+ player in his first AS season. Right at the moment, RJ is at 90 TS+, which is far worse than what Demar was doing at the time. Of course, it's been 12 games, but it would be the 3rd season in 4 at 90 or 91 TS+, so it also wouldn't be that surprising if he ended up there. That said, he's also 24. Demar didn't show meaningful improvement in his scoring efficiency until he was 30 and on the Spurs. He had a little run of league-average, and one season above, but the basic template of his game was at odds with efficiency until his jumper improved. Obviously, he had incremental improvements in the RS from year to year, but it didn't really matter too much until many, many years later.

If Demar's the template, then moving on from RJ when he has value would make some sense, because that's an epoch to wait for someone and not really worth it. But we certainly have the time to see how this season goes and that might make another season of observation/experimentation could make some sense. But after that, not so much. Still, that's a lot of time where a young guy in a new situation could show some improvement.

demar isn't the template for what Rj could become, I already see things at the same age that Rj does better. Rj is already better with his 3 point shot and his playmaking. Also, using TS+, Rj finished last season at 100 (106 as a raptor) which is better than Derozan's all-star season. So yes, Rj has been inefficient to start the season, but he has shown the ability to be better than this. His **** FT shooting also contributes to his inefficiency, and again is something that can still be improved. And I see more potential growth for his game than I saw in Demar's. That being said, the argument I'm making also takes into account people's perception of said player. And it doesn't apply to Demar specifically. It's the concept that people will use certain arguments for one player and not for another.

I've seen people act like OG was the second coming of kawhi, state youth and potential as a big factor, and when I watched his game and his skillset, it was easy to see that he would never reach that level. Yet the arguments were always patience, watch, give him a bigger role, etc... and to this day he's still exactly the type of role player he always was. It's just the limitations in his skillset that hinder him. So it's frustrating to see how adamant people want to disprove the potential of RJ, when it's obvious to me that he has skills that should be developed and more untapped potential than 90% of the team. He just needs to be more consistent and efficient, but if he reaches that point, he literally can be a star. And to me that's something worth developing and investing in. I've seen people get so worked up defending lesser skilled players.

[billy_hoyle]

Rj has now improved his passing and playmaking. The guy legit has been playing point forward in spurts. Again I have no idea why when you criticize one players skill set people get butthurt and act like youth and potential is everything, b then you see another young player like rj that actually has elite skills and potential that just needs more polish and comsistency, that has actually shown growth in their game, people act like they are useless, a finished product, and aren’t worth developing.

It's something to watch.

He's pretty young, and while he has his issues, this is the definition of an experimental season. Might as well see if we can get him doing things better than he did in New York, right?

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Fred sucked at everything but long-distance shooting except for in 2022. Which made his defenders that much more frustrating.

With Demar, he was a 98 TS+ player in his first AS season. Right at the moment, RJ is at 90 TS+, which is far worse than what Demar was doing at the time. Of course, it's been 12 games, but it would be the 3rd season in 4 at 90 or 91 TS+, so it also wouldn't be that surprising if he ended up there. That said, he's also 24. Demar didn't show meaningful improvement in his scoring efficiency until he was 30 and on the Spurs. He had a little run of league-average, and one season above, but the basic template of his game was at odds with efficiency until his jumper improved. Obviously, he had incremental improvements in the RS from year to year, but it didn't really matter too much until many, many years later.

If Demar's the template, then moving on from RJ when he has value would make some sense, because that's an epoch to wait for someone and not really worth it. But we certainly have the time to see how this season goes and that might make another season of observation/experimentation could make some sense. But after that, not so much. Still, that's a lot of time where a young guy in a new situation could show some improvement.

demar isn't the template for what Rj could become, I already see things at the same age that Rj does better. Rj is already better with his 3 point shot and his playmaking. Also, using TS+, Rj finished last season at 100 (106 as a raptor) which is better than Derozan's all-star season. So yes, Rj has been inefficient to start the season, but he has shown the ability to be better than this. His **** FT shooting also contributes to his inefficiency, and again is something that can still be improved. And I see more potential growth for his game than I saw in Demar's. That being said, the argument I'm making also takes into account people's perception of said player. And it doesn't apply to Demar specifically. It's the concept that people will use certain arguments for one player and not for another.

I've seen people act like OG was the second coming of kawhi, state youth and potential as a big factor, and when I watched his game and his skillset, it was easy to see that he would never reach that level. Yet the arguments were always patience, watch, give him a bigger role, etc... and to this day he's still exactly the type of role player he always was. It's just the limitations in his skillset that hinder him. So it's frustrating to see how adamant people want to disprove the potential of RJ, when it's obvious to me that he has skills that should be developed and more untapped potential than 90% of the team. He just needs to be more consistent and efficient, but if he reaches that point, he literally can be a star. And to me that's something worth developing and investing in. I've seen people get so worked up defending lesser skilled players.

We all know tsherkin is a slave to the stats. We watch RJ drag 2 defenders to the hoop like 5 times a game, leaving easy rebounds and clean up baskets for the hard crashing Poeltl.

That's shown as a missed layup in the stats. It's a reason Yak is having a monster statistical year. Efficiency isn't actually the be all end all if your probing leads to easy put backs and a completely compromised defence.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Rj has now improved his passing and playmaking. The guy legit has been playing point forward in spurts. Again I have no idea why when you criticize one players skill set people get butthurt and act like youth and potential is everything, b then you see another young player like rj that actually has elite skills and potential that just needs more polish and comsistency, that has actually shown growth in their game, people act like they are useless, a finished product, and aren’t worth developing.

It's something to watch.

He's pretty young, and while he has his issues, this is the definition of an experimental season. Might as well see if we can get him doing things better than he did in New York, right?

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Fred sucked at everything but long-distance shooting except for in 2022. Which made his defenders that much more frustrating.

With Demar, he was a 98 TS+ player in his first AS season. Right at the moment, RJ is at 90 TS+, which is far worse than what Demar was doing at the time. Of course, it's been 12 games, but it would be the 3rd season in 4 at 90 or 91 TS+, so it also wouldn't be that surprising if he ended up there. That said, he's also 24. Demar didn't show meaningful improvement in his scoring efficiency until he was 30 and on the Spurs. He had a little run of league-average, and one season above, but the basic template of his game was at odds with efficiency until his jumper improved. Obviously, he had incremental improvements in the RS from year to year, but it didn't really matter too much until many, many years later.

If Demar's the template, then moving on from RJ when he has value would make some sense, because that's an epoch to wait for someone and not really worth it. But we certainly have the time to see how this season goes and that might make another season of observation/experimentation could make some sense. But after that, not so much. Still, that's a lot of time where a young guy in a new situation could show some improvement.

Demar also wouldn't get calls as a young guy, but evolved into one of the craftiest foul draw guys in league history too, great FT shooter, improved efficiency.

[Scase]

Mans literally has to go in the record books just to keep haters off his ass for a few days.

He will be a good 3rd or 4th option, let the kid live.

He wouldn't have to if he wasn't horrifically inefficient otherwise. Consistency is, and always has been the knock on RJ, and nothing has changed that to date. I would rather him be an efficient 15/5/5 than the massive swings of impact and efficiency he is now.

This isn't new criticism, it's been around since his Knicks days. You guys just come out of the wood works when he finally has a really good game.

Why was everyone always on fvvs jock despite his inefficiency? You’re talking about rj since his knicks days like he wasn’t just coming off a rookie contract. The guy is 24 years old not **** 28. When Demar derozan first became an all star with us at 24 he was putting up worse numbers than rj. And I remember every **** year the discussion was he’s still getting better he’s still young he’s still getting better. It’s maddening hearing how people can’t even be consistent with this logic.

Who tf cares about this? He's in YEAR SIX of his career, and the best he's shown for efficiency is 30 games. He's had stints like this before, and he'll have stints like this again. He was inefficient in college and he's been inefficient in the NBA, he is a veteran player, stop acting like just because he's 24 he can make some miraculous turnaround in efficiency based on literally no evidence.

And why does DD matter at all in this? You're comparing a player who made an all star appearance with 1 year LESS experience, stop using the age as a crutch. You're also trying to compare a 12 game sample size to DD's 79.

I don't care about the counting stats, I made that evidently clear in my previous post, I'm talking about his efficiency. He has done an admirable job so far this season handling the ball and bumping the assist numbers, but that's also because he's rocking a 31% USG%, with 36% and 34% in the last 2 games respectively.

No one ever said RJ couldn't put up stats on volume. The question is can he do it without bottom of the league efficiency levels.

[mdenny]

I've become convinced that ppl obsessed with "efficiency" have no idea what they are talking about. The biggest factor in any given player's EFG is the role they play on a specific team. Obviously front cout players will always have higher efficiency because of layups. Obviously backcourt players will have lower because of long range shots.

Obviously catch and shoot players will be higher because of open shots. Obviously creation players will be lower because of contested shots.

It's hilarious to watch ppl talk like this. According to efficiency stats...Norm Powell in 2024 is better than prime Michael Jordan lol.

But this kinda explains why the fantasy league ppl generally hate point guards and ball handlers. Players who stand around and hit open shots on plays made by others are vaulted.

The players who shoot with high efficiency are interchangeable from one season to the next. Their whole steeze depends on who they play with. The players who aren't interchangeable are the ball handlers and creators.