Game Thread: NY Knicks at Phoenix Suns Wed, Nov 20 10:00 PM

[Jeff Van Gully]

It's too much when you go through the years and look at all-defense teams and generally speaking the elite wings his size play around 29-33mpg. The last couple years there's been a downward trend in minutes per game for defensive players.

With his injury history he should not be at a career high in MPG, he should be scaled down to 30mpg like Herb, Jrue, Jaden etc. Last night that collision with him and Hart could have ended our season, he had no business coming back into the game, that kind of thing shouldn't happen.

OG is a 2-way player. From his own lips and his numbers are backing that up. No a great comparisons.

So if we're going to discuss scaling down and comparing him to players like Jrue, 7 years ago Jrue was averaging 36 MPG when he was OG's age. All those other players are not All-Star level talents. They can get away with 26-30 MPG. OG can't. This is where we get into this weird minute police business. A career high in MPG at 36.4 is laughable when that career high is 36.0. When Mitch, Precious, and Deuce are back, he's probably going to lose a minute or two, anyway. I promise you, if Knicks somehow lost yesterday's game while leaving in the rookies to stink up the joint, you'll be asking, "Where's OG?"

He's fine at 36 MPG.

I disagree with this completely. People also want to see the rookies play. If we lost yesterday there would be bigger problems than OG not playing 40mpg. We also have more players than just rookies to fill those minutes.

Damn it! I swore I wouldn't join this conversation this year! DAMN YOU GULLY!! Must...resist!!

it's irresistible. i understand and respect the passion if nothing else.

[Iron Mantis]

At his offensive output that's more than okay. Quit being unreasonable ffs.

Mitchell Robinson last season: 70% opp FG% in the restricted area.

If KAT was able to keep opponents at 62.6% we'd be in good shape.

Last season, All bigs who started and held opponents to 62.6% and under in the restricted area.



Elite rim protectors, yet not one of them are in the same stratosphere as KAT when it comes to scoring. Closest is KP, who is always injured.

KAT right now in Thibs system has basically proven he can do practically EVERYTHING. The one caveat was rim protection. However if he stays anywhere near that 62.6% then we really have something unbelievably special here. Now even if he doesn't, having Mitch and even Precious to a lesser extent will take much of that burden off him.

15 minutes KAT off the court Mitch/Precious will play the 5
15-20 minutes KAT ON the court Mitch/Precious will play the 5 with KAT at 4
Other 15-20 minutes KAT ON the court Mitch/Precious will be out with KAT at 5

He will play more or less at 5vs 4 on a matchup basis coupled with the ebb and flow of each game. Some nights he'll play more at 4 and some nights more at 5. However if his rim protection continues to improve that bodes well four our D even when he plays longer minutes at 5.

Yes. Once you go outside the restricted area, further out into the paint, is where KAT really needs to improve.

KAT seems more concerned with boxing out and cutting off the pass to the center instead of stepping up to contest the penetration further out in the paint like IHart and Mitch used to do.

But those numbers from the restricted area the last 7 games are promising though. And I'm hoping he continues the trend and steps up more to challenge floaters/pull-ups in the entire painted area.

What I've noticed is when the ball handler gets in the paint, He looks confused trying to guard the 2 players at the same time instead of committing to defending the ball handler.

He has to trust teammates to get the rebound or disrupt the pass to the center when he steps in front to contest the driver in the paint.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

The Walls of Jericho, I did not know he had that in him.

big gully. i love it.

also, this is a bad, young team that isn't gonna call those out. better teams won't be so easy. but def have to teach that lesson when you can.

i still remember the best screens i got hit with in high school... in the 90s.

[Jeff Van Gully]

At his offensive output that's more than okay. Quit being unreasonable ffs.

We’re barely above .500 and we haven’t beat any contenders and you’re acting like we’re Boston

Sham if you’re reading this, guan0 is a full on h0mer now!!

sham will need to make sure the coast is clear before he gets his phone from his jail wallet, he's probably braiding hair right now too.

jesus

[Jeff Van Gully]

The +/- gawd

It’s a very good likeness of Jericho.

really gets his closed mouth grin down

[3toheadmelo]

At his offensive output that's more than okay. Quit being unreasonable ffs.

Mitchell Robinson last season: 70% opp FG% in the restricted area.

If KAT was able to keep opponents at 62.6% we'd be in good shape.

Last season, All bigs who started and held opponents to 62.6% and under in the restricted area.



Elite rim protectors, yet not one of them are in the same stratosphere as KAT when it comes to scoring. Closest is KP, who is always injured.

KAT right now in Thibs system has basically proven he can do practically EVERYTHING. The one caveat was rim protection. However if he stays anywhere near that 62.6% then we really have something unbelievably special here. Now even if he doesn't, having Mitch and even Precious to a lesser extent will take much of that burden off him.

15 minutes KAT off the court Mitch/Precious will play the 5
15-20 minutes KAT ON the court Mitch/Precious will play the 5 with KAT at 4
Other 15-20 minutes KAT ON the court Mitch/Precious will be out with KAT at 5

He will play more or less at 5vs 4 on a matchup basis coupled with the ebb and flow of each game. Some nights he'll play more at 4 and some nights more at 5. However if his rim protection continues to improve that bodes well four our D even when he plays longer minutes at 5.

Those aren’t the real rim protection numbers. It’s just what opponents are shooting when he’s on the court, doesn’t reflect the actual contests. The real rim protection numbers (DFG%) are still the worst in the league as a starter.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Imagine still arguing that Towns is really not that good and all

officially a weird hill to die on

[Jeff Van Gully]

Read on Twitter

The Walls of Jericho, I did not know he had that in him.

Yea I remember he was the only one on the team that retaliated in any way vs the Sixers last PO. Did the same exact move.

dominican power

[Jeff Van Gully]

[img]

Watch on YouTube

[/img]

y'all... bout to be some rich... knick fans.

[RHODEY]

The first two teams in the league for offensive rating are two teams that have played years together, the Knicks have only played weeks together and are the third rated offense. This is with one of their two top stars and main offensive engine starting slowly and another of their newly acquired starters being inconsistent.

This bodes well for the team once their chemistry and consistency finally come together. This can be said for their defense as well since they are already a top ten rated defense with the same circumstances of new players still needing to develop chemistry and consistency.

Don't forget... with Thibs Knicks team it's typically .500 till new year's day so it's going to get better as the season goes along.

We already climbed to top 10 defense? Damn.

[Fury]

When the Knicks win the title

3toheadmelo: "Sure, we won the title. But at what cost? 75% opp FG% in the restricted area. Smh"

[stuporman]

The first two teams in the league for offensive rating are two teams that have played years together, the Knicks have only played weeks together and are the third rated offense. This is with one of their two top stars and main offensive engine starting slowly and another of their newly acquired starters being inconsistent.

This bodes well for the team once their chemistry and consistency finally come together. This can be said for their defense as well since they are already a top ten rated defense with the same circumstances of new players still needing to develop chemistry and consistency.

Don't forget... with Thibs Knicks team it's typically .500 till new year's day so it's going to get better as the season goes along.

We already climbed to top 10 defense? Damn.

I may be wrong but I saw a tweet with the Knicks and Cavs next to each other on one of those head graphs that had both teams in the top ten of both categories and the tweeter asked something to the effect of these two teams should have similar record, right? It was when Cavs were undefeated and the Knicks .500.

I'm sure someone can pull some stat out of the arse showing how the Knicks are middle of the pack defensively using some nerd gooning advanced metric but that is what the graph showed of net ratings as of a few games back and I'm pretty sure the Knicks are close to the same right now.

[3toheadmelo]

When the Knicks win the title

3toheadmelo: "Sure, we won the title. But at what cost? 75% opp FG% in the restricted area. Smh"

Fury- The Knicks are 8-6 which clearly means we’re the best team in the league by FAR.

Smh

[Fury]

When the Knicks win the title

3toheadmelo: "Sure, we won the title. But at what cost? 75% opp FG% in the restricted area. Smh"

Fury- The Knicks are 8-6 which clearly means we’re the best team in the league by FAR.

Smh

[GONYK]

The first two teams in the league for offensive rating are two teams that have played years together, the Knicks have only played weeks together and are the third rated offense. This is with one of their two top stars and main offensive engine starting slowly and another of their newly acquired starters being inconsistent.

This bodes well for the team once their chemistry and consistency finally come together. This can be said for their defense as well since they are already a top ten rated defense with the same circumstances of new players still needing to develop chemistry and consistency.

Don't forget... with Thibs Knicks team it's typically .500 till new year's day so it's going to get better as the season goes along.

We already climbed to top 10 defense? Damn.

I may be wrong but I saw a tweet with the Knicks and Cavs next to each other on one of those head graphs that had both teams in the top ten of both categories and the tweeter asked something to the effect of these two teams should have similar record, right? It was when Cavs were undefeated and the Knicks .500.

I'm sure someone can pull some stat out of the arse showing how the Knicks are middle of the pack defensively using some nerd gooning advanced metric but that is what the graph showed of net ratings as of a few games back and I'm pretty sure the Knicks are close to the same right now.

The Knicks currently are 21st in DEF Rating, but 7th in NET Rating

[Fat Kat]

Revenge game

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Getting better and better Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both numbers are eye popping, though.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Yep and those numbers don’t actually reflect the shots he’s actually contesting in the restricted area. DFG% does that. For the season KAT has a DFG% of 73% <6 feet, letting opponents shoot 9.5% better at the rim. That DFG% at protecting the rim is in the same territory as point guards. Hes worst than every starting big in the league, not hyperbole. People are really trying to act like he’s in the same territory as Chet, JJJ and Mobley on defense KAT is a good offensive player but his rim protection is historically trash. It’s not a coincidence that people in our FO are banking on Mitch to save our defense at the 5.

KAT is not historically trash as a rim protector, that's hyperbole, right now is his worst season of his career and those numbers are gradually coming down. You can go through his numbers as a center, and they were never historically bad, they were league average and below in some cases.


DFG%

21/22 - 61.6%
20/21 - 61.9%
19/20 - 58.3%
18/19 - 57.8%
17/18 - 61.1%
16/17 - 60.5%
15/16 - 56.3%


His last year at center the Wolves were 13th defensively, is he great? No, but he's never been the worst, and him having growing pains at C after not playing it for 3 years is to be expected. Also, Mitch was at 70% last season, so it's obviously scheme, Ihart was better at rim than Mitch but worse as a team defender. If Mitch had 70%, and KAT is at 73% right now then it should be pretty clear the scheme is leading to it.

[stuporman]

We already climbed to top 10 defense? Damn.

I may be wrong but I saw a tweet with the Knicks and Cavs next to each other on one of those head graphs that had both teams in the top ten of both categories and the tweeter asked something to the effect of these two teams should have similar record, right? It was when Cavs were undefeated and the Knicks .500.

I'm sure someone can pull some stat out of the arse showing how the Knicks are middle of the pack defensively using some nerd gooning advanced metric but that is what the graph showed of net ratings as of a few games back and I'm pretty sure the Knicks are close to the same right now.

The Knicks currently are 21st in DEF Rating, but 7th in NET Rating

Everyone has different numbers, I see 3 different ones from 3 different sites and then the one that was posted in the tweet which I'm not going to be able to find because boomer. I'm sure the one you have is the one you say is right....but the 3 I've found suggest they are middle of the pack for the season.

[Guano]

You can really tell the American education system is failing with all these common core math stats meLo is throwing around.

[Capn'O]

Why are we discussing a hypothetical where we lose the game because of the rookies playing? We didn't lose the game with the rookies playing the other day. All three at once didn't seem to work so well but there are bench/starter combos where we can hold the line and get our guys some rest. That's the whole point.