Vučević discussion thread. I don't want to but what the heck.

[Stratmaster]

Vooch seems to excel with the faster pace style of play compared to the slow it down. Maybe it's the focus on getting up 3s and quick shots/passes, but I rarely ever see him post up anymore. When he does, it's usually a couple quick dribbles and a hook. And this is with him having more space without DeMar and his defender crowding him in a 5-out offense.

Yes, we all wish his defense would be better (if he would just raise his arms when a shot goes up...), but I don't know if we can fully blame it on him when you've got leaks coming in from all over the place with Coby, Giddey, and Zach hilariously trying to contain the perimeter. We are better at defending 3s now with improvements in both percentage (-3%) and volume (-4.5%), but the flip side is everyone's attacking us at the rim and we can't stop them.

We have some posters saying Vuc is thriving because now he plays inside-out without Demar as opposed to outside-in, and some saying he's thriving now because he barely posts up due to the fast-paced style. These are conflicting statements.

I'm not calling anyone out, but I think we're just grasping at straws to find an explanation for why Vuc is so much better this season when the answer is honestly simple: he's mostly taking the same shots as last year, he's just making more of them now.

The extra space to maneuver is obvious to the eye. The additional time he has to maneuver and still get the shot up is as well. The shot chart may show he is shooting from the same places but that tells you nothing about the space he has from those spots compared to last season.

He is posting up plenty. There is a difference without Demar. Also, a faster pace with open lane that aren't being taken up by another player seems to suit Vuc.

No. Of course his higher percentage from 3's, where he has always been open, has nothing to do with Demar.

No one should be conflating the 2.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[2weekswithpay]

Rui, Knect, hayes for vuc and torrey craig works on trade checker. I would consider that. I would probably need a pick too. Waiting for the overrating of knects value in 3, 2, 1…

Lakers are calling Knecht the draft steal. I’m sure he’s off the table now.

Think it would need to be a 3 way.

Knect is a decent asset, but by no means a future star. Vuc and craig could really help that team a lot more in lebron and davis’s last runs…

You have to give to get.

The Lakers were never trading Knecht for Vuc to begin with and they certainly aren't making that trade after tonight.

[greenwing]

Lakers are calling Knecht the draft steal. I’m sure he’s off the table now.

Think it would need to be a 3 way.

Knect is a decent asset, but by no means a future star. Vuc and craig could really help that team a lot more in lebron and davis’s last runs…

You have to give to get.

The Lakers were never trading Knecht for Vuc to begin with and they certainly aren't making that trade after tonight.

Zach Lavine, Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig for D’Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, Dalton Knecht, Gabe Vincent, Jarred Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish And Christian Wood works in the ESPN trade checker.

Lakers new starting roster would be Reaves, Lavine, LeBron, AD, Vucevic. That core has a chance at least to compete.

The Bulls can then tank, get some salary cap relief and build around younger assets.

[Muzbar]

Knect is a decent asset, but by no means a future star. Vuc and craig could really help that team a lot more in lebron and davis’s last runs…

You have to give to get.

The Lakers were never trading Knecht for Vuc to begin with and they certainly aren't making that trade after tonight.

Zach Lavine, Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig for D’Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, Dalton Knecht, Gabe Vincent, Jarred Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish And Christian Wood works in the ESPN trade checker.

Lakers new starting roster would be Reaves, Lavine, LeBron, AD, Vucevic. That core has a chance at least to compete.

The Bulls can then tank, get some salary cap relief and build around younger assets.

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

[MrSparkle]

Again, why do people bother making trade proposals for ROY candidates? If Matas just strung together a week of 19, 14, 27, 37 point nights, would you be trading him for a Vuc?

At this point, we have to unfortunately wonder if AKME picked the wrong guy, again. Knecht is on pace to outproduce Pat, Terry and Matas combined.

[dougthonus]

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

I believe they could add THT and Julian Philips to the trade without impacting it because the Lakers could take them into vet min exceptions. They could then release Carter and Duarte if you presume those would be the four players you'd let go anyway.

Not that I think such a trade is going to happen, just think that you could probably find a way around the roster size issue if necessary, you could also expand it somewhere so some other team takes a 2 for 1 in the deal in a 3 team scenario.

[sco]

Yeah, I'd just be happy nabbing Vandy (and to a lesser extent, Hayes) and that '29 1st in a Vuc deal.

[Andi Obst]

derozan used to glower at vucevic and made him shoot 30% on wide-open three point attempts

I knew I would see the "DeRozan was holding Vuc back!" nonsense before I clicked on this thread and somehow I'm still disappointed.

[Andi Obst]

I hope this hot stretch at least leads to some trade offers so it's actually worth something.

I'm more than ready to celebrate Vuc being off my team.

[Chi town]

Can we keep our pick by only trading Vuc?

Let’s say we get a backup C to replace him.

As some have said I think Zach will still be tougher to trade due to contract.

[jnrjr79]

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Feels inevitable that either Vuc or Zach (maybe both) will end up in LA

Vooch for D-Lo's expiring, Wood's expiring, and a future pick works.

[jnrjr79]

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Feels inevitable that either Vuc or Zach (maybe both) will end up in LA

It is hard to make the $ work with LA and get back anything useful. I really want Vandy in the deal, but I think we'd be stuck with Rui + Hayes...it would be great to get a 2029 pick, but that my be reaching.

Yeah, I don't think you're getting any immediately useful players. Salary relief and a pick seems like the best that can be done (and I'm good with/that).

[Stratmaster]

derozan used to glower at vucevic and made him shoot 30% on wide-open three point attempts

I knew I would see the "DeRozan was holding Vuc back!" nonsense before I clicked on this thread and somehow I'm still disappointed.

I knew I would see all kinds of people who complained about roster construction and fit now deny that changing that construction and fit could possibly have any effect.

No one is saying DDR wasn't a great player, or that he did anything wrong. At least I'm not. But if you don't see the difference as far as space to work inside, lanes for attacking,and off ball cutting to the basket then you aren't paying attention.

If Vuc had been traded for a defensive, rim protecting Center the change in fit would have an impact on this team. Doesn't mean Vuc sucks or that he did anything wrong.

The nonsense has been that Vuc, DDR and Zach were holding back Pwill and Coby.

[jnrjr79]

derozan used to glower at vucevic and made him shoot 30% on wide-open three point attempts

I knew I would see the "DeRozan was holding Vuc back!" nonsense before I clicked on this thread and somehow I'm still disappointed.

I knew I would see all kinds of people who complained about roster construction and fit now deny that changing that construction and fit could possibly have any effect.

No one is saying DDR wasn't a great player, or that he did anything wrong. At least I'm not. But if you don't see the difference as far as space to work inside, lanes for attacking,and off ball cutting to the basket then you aren't paying attention.

If Vuc had been traded for a defensive, rim protecting Center the change in fit would have an impact on this team. Doesn't mean Vuc sucks or that he did anything wrong.

The nonsense has been that Vuc, DDR and Zach were holding back Pwill and Coby.

Can you clarify what you mean here? If DDR was a great player, but a poor fit, such that all those offensive benefits you identified are now happening, isn't that sort of by definition holding back the other players who do better under the new conditions?

[greenwing]

The Lakers were never trading Knecht for Vuc to begin with and they certainly aren't making that trade after tonight.

Zach Lavine, Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig for D’Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, Dalton Knecht, Gabe Vincent, Jarred Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish And Christian Wood works in the ESPN trade checker.

Lakers new starting roster would be Reaves, Lavine, LeBron, AD, Vucevic. That core has a chance at least to compete.

The Bulls can then tank, get some salary cap relief and build around younger assets.

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

Yes, I'm aware they'd have to make cuts. I don't think it would happen, but was just throwing it out there. The Bulls could immediately cut Wood, Reddish, Ball and Talen Horton-Tucker as they are all expiring. None of those guys likely have a future with the Bulls, anyway, and it would allow them to seek roles on teams that are trying to compete. The Lakers could fill out the rest of the roster with minimum guys looking to ring chase. I dont think the roster number is as big of an issue as you're implying.

[Muzbar]

Zach Lavine, Nikola Vucevic and Torrey Craig for D’Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, Dalton Knecht, Gabe Vincent, Jarred Vanderbilt, Cam Reddish And Christian Wood works in the ESPN trade checker.

Lakers new starting roster would be Reaves, Lavine, LeBron, AD, Vucevic. That core has a chance at least to compete.

The Bulls can then tank, get some salary cap relief and build around younger assets.

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

Yes, I'm aware they'd have to make cuts. I don't think it would happen, but was just throwing it out there. The Bulls could immediately cut Wood, Reddish, Ball and Talen Horton-Tucker as they are all expiring. None of those guys likely have a future with the Bulls, anyway, and it would allow them to seek roles on teams that are trying to compete. The Lakers could fill out the rest of the roster with minimum guys looking to ring chase. I dont think the roster number is as big of an issue as you're implying.

It actually is. You can't make a trade that gives you more than your allowable roster allocations or gives you less than you minimum roster allocations. In order to complete that specific trade, the Bulls would have to release 4 players before the trade can happen, which would put them at 11 (that absolute minimum is 13).

It quite literally can not be done.

[Muzbar]

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

I believe they could add THT and Julian Philips to the trade without impacting it because the Lakers could take them into vet min exceptions. They could then release Carter and Duarte if you presume those would be the four players you'd let go anyway.

Not that I think such a trade is going to happen, just think that you could probably find a way around the roster size issue if necessary, you could also expand it somewhere so some other team takes a 2 for 1 in the deal in a 3 team scenario.

No, they actually can't.

The Lakers can't take back more money than they sent out as they're right at the apron.

[jnrjr79]

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

I believe they could add THT and Julian Philips to the trade without impacting it because the Lakers could take them into vet min exceptions. They could then release Carter and Duarte if you presume those would be the four players you'd let go anyway.

Not that I think such a trade is going to happen, just think that you could probably find a way around the roster size issue if necessary, you could also expand it somewhere so some other team takes a 2 for 1 in the deal in a 3 team scenario.

No, they actually can't.

The Lakers can't take back more money than they sent out as they're right at the apron.

About the only Vooch + Zach swap that would seem to work in Trade Machine is:

Out: Zach, Vooch, Craig, Liddell, Phillips ($69,889,832)
In: Russell, Rui, Reaves, Vincent, Vanderbilt ($70,382,955)

Lakers stay under the 2nd apron, Bulls stay out of the tax. But it's pretty freaking hard to make any deal that doesn't look insane work when Zach and Vooch make $63 million together, given the Lakers don't have a lot of huge salaries themselves after LeBron and AD. You basically have to figure out a way to take every one of their tradable 8-figure salaries that aren't those two guys, which means the Bulls would need to sprinkle in some very small salaries for players they are trading away to make dollars and roster spots work.

[dougthonus]

The Bulls would have to release 4 players before even doing this 'trade' which they can't do as the absolute minimum allowed on an NBA roster is 13 (and only for 2 weeks) and the Lakers would have zero depth (and would also be bound be the same rule as they'd then have less than 13 on their roster).

I believe they could add THT and Julian Philips to the trade without impacting it because the Lakers could take them into vet min exceptions. They could then release Carter and Duarte if you presume those would be the four players you'd let go anyway.

Not that I think such a trade is going to happen, just think that you could probably find a way around the roster size issue if necessary, you could also expand it somewhere so some other team takes a 2 for 1 in the deal in a 3 team scenario.

No, they actually can't.

The Lakers can't take back more money than they sent out as they're right at the apron.

Make sense, in that case they can move them to a 3rd team into vet min exceptions, but clearly you have to probably toss some other team a 2nd rounder to do it.