2024 NBA Draft Thread

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2921 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:04 pm

Collier is so fascinating athletically.

Genuinely a 95th to 99th percentile guy with regards to lateral quickness and the quickness of his first step.

... But he can't jump at all.

He can get to the paint whenever he wants and he can stay in front of anyone, but he just can't score at all right now because he can't jump.

peZt · Post #2922 » by **peZt** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:06 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Collier is so fascinating athletically.

Genuinely a 95th to 99th percentile guy with regards to lateral quickness and the quickness of his first step.

... But he can't jump at all.

He can get to the paint whenever he wants and he can stay in front of anyone, but he just can't score at all right now because he can't jump.

Dante Exum had a similiar problem. Elite first step, trash verticality and finishing at the rim. And also his handle didnt turn out as good as hoped

SeattleJazzFan · Post #2923 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:21 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Cody Williams' completely broken jumpshot form has somehow gotten much worse since he reached the NBA so that's not good to see.

i don't know if Williams shooting or his passive play is the biggest issue.

both were huge problems for him in feb/march for colorado last year and the reasons I didn't want anything do with him in the draft. unfortunately he is what i thought he was.

still young, so it would be silly to write him off, but it's a concern. jazz fans saw the same thing with dante exum who people had been comparing to kobe pre-draft. steps on an nba court and completely disappears. totally passive and just not good at basketball. Williams is even just a tad worse.

JMAC3 · Post #2924 » by **JMAC3** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:29 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Cody Williams' completely broken jumpshot form has somehow gotten much worse since he reached the NBA so that's not good to see.

i don't know if Williams shooting or his passive play is the biggest issue.

both were huge problems for him in feb/march for colorado last year and the reasons I didn't want anything do with him in the draft. unfortunately he is what i thought he was.

still young, so it would be silly to write him off, but it's a concern. jazz fans saw the same thing with dante exum who people had been comparing to kobe pre-draft. steps on an nba court and completely disappears. totally passive and just not good at basketball. Williams is even just a tad worse.

I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2925 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:41 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Cody Williams' completely broken jumpshot form has somehow gotten much worse since he reached the NBA so that's not good to see.

i don't know if Williams shooting or his passive play is the biggest issue.

both were huge problems for him in feb/march for colorado last year and the reasons I didn't want anything do with him in the draft. unfortunately he is what i thought he was.

still young, so it would be silly to write him off, but it's a concern. jazz fans saw the same thing with dante exum who people had been comparing to kobe pre-draft. steps on an nba court and completely disappears. totally passive and just not good at basketball. Williams is even just a tad worse.

I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

It's not that he's not great or anything, it's that he needed huge improvement from college in

1. Athleticism
2. Strength
3. Shooting

To become a good NBA player.

In his rookie season, he has made no strides in 1 or 2 while getting MUCH worse at 3. Whoever his shooting coach is has taken his terrible form and made it one of the worst in the entire league. Every part of it is heinous now.

clyde21 · Post #2926 » by **clyde21** » Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:37 am

i don't think it will hold up long term but it will be funny if Jared McCain is the best player that will come out of this class

FarBeyondDriven · Post #2927 » by **FarBeyondDriven** » Sat Nov 23, 2024 11:02 am

clyde21 wrote:i don't think it will hold up long term but it will be funny if Jared McCain is the best player that will come out of this class

why would that be funny? Some of us (even you) had him in or near the top 10 and he went just outside of the lottery. Heck, I had him #5 on my post declare Big Board before moving him down so this isn't much of a surprise. Lots of best players in a draft have been late lottery picks btw: Giannis, Booker, SGA, Kawhi, and George to name a few.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2928 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:39 pm

Jon Scheyer asking McCain to defer to Proctor is looking like one of the most legendarily bad non-Calipari coaching decisions in a while.

clyde21 · Post #2929 » by **clyde21** » Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:03 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i don't think it will hold up long term but it will be funny if Jared McCain is the best player that will come out of this class

why would that be funny? Some of us (even you) had him in or near the top 10 and he went just outside of the lottery. Heck, I had him #5 on my post declare Big Board before moving him down so this isn't much of a surprise. Lots of best players in a draft have been late lottery picks btw: Giannis, Booker, SGA, Kawhi, and George to name a few.

not about McCain, I liked him as a lotto guy but a 6-3 combo guard really shouldn't be the best player in a class

JMAC3 · Post #2930 » by **JMAC3** » Sun Nov 24, 2024 5:22 pm

I don't think he will end up the best player in the class, but it would be pretty shocking if he wasn't one of the 5 best guys longterm at this point, so huge win either way.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #2931 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 3:29 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Cody Williams' completely broken jumpshot form has somehow gotten much worse since he reached the NBA so that's not good to see.

i don't know if Williams shooting or his passive play is the biggest issue.

both were huge problems for him in feb/march for colorado last year and the reasons I didn't want anything do with him in the draft. unfortunately he is what i thought he was.

still young, so it would be silly to write him off, but it's a concern. jazz fans saw the same thing with dante exum who people had been comparing to kobe pre-draft. steps on an nba court and completely disappears. totally passive and just not good at basketball. Williams is even just a tad worse.

I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

this is quite the comment, lol. it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's how historically horrible he is. iow, it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's that he might be the worst player ever over this sort of sample size. in 19 mpg, he's at 27% FGs, 18% 3pt, 3 ppg, 2.9 PER, 34% TS. I don't think i've ever seen an NBA player that bad at any point in their career over a 15+ game sample size.

JMAC3 · Post #2932 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 4:57 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
i don't know if Williams shooting or his passive play is the biggest issue.

both were huge problems for him in feb/march for colorado last year and the reasons I didn't want anything do with him in the draft. unfortunately he is what i thought he was.

still young, so it would be silly to write him off, but it's a concern. jazz fans saw the same thing with dante exum who people had been comparing to kobe pre-draft. steps on an nba court and completely disappears. totally passive and just not good at basketball. Williams is even just a tad worse.

I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

this is quite the comment, lol. it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's how historically horrible he is. iow, it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's that he might be the worst player ever over this sort of sample size. in 19 mpg, he's at 27% FGs, 18% 3pt, 3 ppg, 2.9 PER, 34% TS. I don't think i've ever seen an NBA player that bad at any point in their career over a 15+ game sample size.

I mean I certainly am not going to say he has played well. Even though his shooting % is really bad, the shot volume is such a low amount that 2-3 halfway decent games probably put him in respectable range.

7/37 from three
11/30 from 2pt range
6/10 from FT

SeattleJazzFan · Post #2933 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:13 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

this is quite the comment, lol. it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's how historically horrible he is. iow, it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's that he might be the worst player ever over this sort of sample size. in 19 mpg, he's at 27% FGs, 18% 3pt, 3 ppg, 2.9 PER, 34% TS. I don't think i've ever seen an NBA player that bad at any point in their career over a 15+ game sample size.

I mean I certainly am not going to say he has played well. Even though his shooting % is really bad, the shot volume is such a low amount that 2-3 halfway decent games probably put him in respectable range.

7/37 from three
11/30 from 2pt range
6/10 from FT

that is certainly a fair point, but as a jazz fan, the concern is that he has seemed to get worse the bigger that sample gets.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2934 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:30 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
I haven't watched him but he was always a bet on the size, skill combo coming together down the road. It would be very surprising if he was just the best rookie right off the bat to me.

this is quite the comment, lol. it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's how historically horrible he is. iow, it's not that he isn't the best rookie, it's that he might be the worst player ever over this sort of sample size. in 19 mpg, he's at 27% FGs, 18% 3pt, 3 ppg, 2.9 PER, 34% TS. I don't think i've ever seen an NBA player that bad at any point in their career over a 15+ game sample size.

I mean I certainly am not going to say he has played well. Even though his shooting % is really bad, the shot volume is such a low amount that 2-3 halfway decent games probably put him in respectable range.

7/37 from three
11/30 from 2pt range
6/10 from FT

If you look at his form, you see that the shooting percentage is not really a fluke. He's taken his horrible form from college and somehow made it way more stiff and off balance. Every shot looks horrible leaving his hand.

Also, not being guarded but only taking only two shots per game is... pretty suggestive.

babyjax13 · Post #2935 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:42 pm

Utah should have drafted Kyshawn George like I wanted lol. But I'm not really that surprised by Williams, I think you had to assume he was a project when drafting him and I'm not sure if it is better for his development to get reps against NBA players or be in the gleague. Regardless, he probably wasn't going to show much even under the best case scenario this season. Also, I'd point out that Utah has done a reasonably good job at helping Hendricks with his jumper, so I'm trusting the process here.

clyde21 · Post #2936 » by **clyde21** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:47 pm

i personally would've taken Buzelis if I were Utah (and not like he's lighting the NBA on fire right now) but it was a bad class and Cody at 10th was as fine of a bet as any. it was a pick for 3-4 years down the line anyways.

Salaun at 6th is the one that really shocked me but we'll see I guess

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2937 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:32 pm

I mean, the Jazz should have taken Topic because he's a much better prospect than Cody who was bad in both college and high school.

I had Topic 2nd and Cody 12th.

babyjax13 · Post #2938 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 8:39 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:I mean, the Jazz should have taken Topic because he's a much better prospect than Cody who was bad in both college and high school.

I had Topic 2nd and Cody 12th.

He was far from my first choice, too, but I don't *hate* the selection. Based on my **** big board that is meant to track "plausible high-end outcomes", there were five players on the board I would have preferred: Kyshawn George, Tyler Smith, Matas Buzelis, Devin Carter, Nikola Topic, and Kel'el Ware. I probably would have preferred Tristan Da Silva, too.

JMAC3 · Post #2939 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:15 pm

clyde21 wrote:i personally would've taken Buzelis if I were Utah (and not like he's lighting the NBA on fire right now) but it was a bad class and Cody at 10th was as fine of a bet as any. it was a pick for 3-4 years down the line anyways.

Salaun at 6th is the one that really shocked me but we'll see I guess

The crazy thing is Salaun has basically been as productive in many ways as guys like Holland, Cody Williams, Matas, Sheppard etc.. so it is really hard to take anything more than a grain of salt in this draft so far. All are really young so not closing the door on them because none have really been given large opportunities yet.

Guys like Knecht, Edey, Clingan have been solid day 1 contributors like some thought but none have really showed the ceiling that screams they are heading for a potential future all-star.

McCain and Castle are flashing the most in terms of future potential based on what they have shown since joining NBA and even still both of those guys could have major flaws. If the draft was done again today I would say pretty high chance the 1st and 2nd picks stay the same and neither of them have even played well.

I think McCain probably goes at least 3rd or 4th though.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #2940 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:16 pm

I had Topic and McCain way ahead of Cody Williams so I feel incredibly good about hindsight bias stuff, lol.

I had Filipowski and Collier 11th and 10th respectively so I thought they overall did really well. Obviously Collier has been abysmal also, but my opinion on draft night was that the Jazz's draft was net good... Just was not a fan of Cody Williams over Topic as I had Topic 2nd and Cody 12th.

We'll see if Cody can fix this abysmal jumpshot and his terrible body over the next few years.