Game Thread: NY Knicks at Phoenix Suns Wed, Nov 20 10:00 PM

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Why are we discussing a hypothetical where we lose the game because of the rookies playing? We didn't lose the game with the rookies playing the other day. All three at once didn't seem to work so well but there are bench/starter combos where we can hold the line and get our guys some rest. That's the whole point.

The Pacman numbers are getting a little bit interesting, he now has a +11.5 net rating, and his on/off is +6.4. We have been better with him on the floor, and considering some of the lineups he plays with that is shocking.


I also love the paradox of his game, which is no matter what happens with his shot it's not touching the rim. You either live with the satisfaction of nothing but net, or an airball, he leaves no other outcome up to chance. Make or miss, the rim is not an active combatant.

[Capn'O]

Why are we discussing a hypothetical where we lose the game because of the rookies playing? We didn't lose the game with the rookies playing the other day. All three at once didn't seem to work so well but there are bench/starter combos where we can hold the line and get our guys some rest. That's the whole point.

The Pacman numbers are getting a little bit interesting, he now has a +11.5 net rating, and his on/off is +6.4. We have been better with him on the floor, and considering some of the lineups he plays with that is shocking.


I also love the paradox of his game, which is no matter what happens with his shot it's not touching the rim. You either live with the satisfaction of nothing but net, or an airball, he leaves no other outcome up to chance. Make or miss, the rim is not an active combatant.

His awareness as an off ball player is very advanced for his age. I'm excited to see him develop.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[moocow007]

Read on Twitter

[Jeff Van Gully]

Why are we discussing a hypothetical where we lose the game because of the rookies playing? We didn't lose the game with the rookies playing the other day. All three at once didn't seem to work so well but there are bench/starter combos where we can hold the line and get our guys some rest. That's the whole point.

The Pacman numbers are getting a little bit interesting, he now has a +11.5 net rating, and his on/off is +6.4. We have been better with him on the floor, and considering some of the lineups he plays with that is shocking.


I also love the paradox of his game, which is no matter what happens with his shot it's not touching the rim. You either live with the satisfaction of nothing but net, or an airball, he leaves no other outcome up to chance. Make or miss, the rim is not an active combatant.

he a player tho. very impressed with his composure.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I hate waiting for the late games. Years ago I wouldn't even bother because we were most likely gonna lose every game on the road trip. Now I have to wait patiently because we are one of the best teams in the league. Awesome! It's really been a fun few years around here. The lone exception was the guano/kemba season. I'll take the low with the highs though. Feeling confident we can win pretty much every game is still a little weird to me but, it's awesome! LFGK!

[KnixinSix]

Now Months ago when I kept saying KAT lines up perfectly to get traded here I did say I believe he will definitely play some 4 here and when Mitch comes back our lineup for 15-20 of each game might look something like this:

Mitch/Precious
KAT
OG
Bridges/McBride
Brunson/Payne

That is a towering lineup that can do everything. Defend, Rebound (both offensively and defensively). Shoot the 3, ball handle.

[GONYK]

I may be wrong but I saw a tweet with the Knicks and Cavs next to each other on one of those head graphs that had both teams in the top ten of both categories and the tweeter asked something to the effect of these two teams should have similar record, right? It was when Cavs were undefeated and the Knicks .500.

I'm sure someone can pull some stat out of the arse showing how the Knicks are middle of the pack defensively using some nerd gooning advanced metric but that is what the graph showed of net ratings as of a few games back and I'm pretty sure the Knicks are close to the same right now.

The Knicks currently are 21st in DEF Rating, but 7th in NET Rating

Everyone has different numbers, I see 3 different ones from 3 different sites and then the one that was posted in the tweet which I'm not going to be able to find because boomer. I'm sure the one you have is the one you say is right....but the 3 I've found suggest they are middle of the pack for the season.

Yea, I just went to NBA.com and Cleaning the Glass for the aggregate. I'm sure there are some lineup specific ratings where the Knicks are ranked higher.

[sol537]

Why are we discussing a hypothetical where we lose the game because of the rookies playing? We didn't lose the game with the rookies playing the other day. All three at once didn't seem to work so well but there are bench/starter combos where we can hold the line and get our guys some rest. That's the whole point.

The Pacman numbers are getting a little bit interesting, he now has a +11.5 net rating, and his on/off is +6.4. We have been better with him on the floor, and considering some of the lineups he plays with that is shocking.


I also love the paradox of his game, which is no matter what happens with his shot it's not touching the rim. You either live with the satisfaction of nothing but net, or an airball, he leaves no other outcome up to chance. Make or miss, the rim is not an active combatant.

he a player tho. very impressed with his composure.

A season of NBA conditioning, practice, and some in-game experience will do wonders for the kid. The measurables and talent is clearly there. We might have found our back-up wing of the future. He's also be learning from some of the best... OG, Mikal, Hart, Deuce... really great situation.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Unreal Talent Folksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KnixinSix]

I hate waiting for the late games. Years ago I wouldn't even bother because we were most likely gonna lose every game on the road trip. Now I have to wait patiently because we are one of the best teams in the league. Awesome! It's really been a fun few years around here. The lone exception was the guano/kemba season. I'll take the low with the highs though. Feeling confident we can win pretty much every game is still a little weird to me but, it's awesome! LFGK!

Lets see if the chemistry has set enough yet that we can start consistently winning. Until then it might be a bit inconsistent/volatile. Each and every game is still a bit of an unknown bc you never fully know what we going to get.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Now Months ago when I kept saying KAT lines up perfectly to get traded here I did say I believe he will definitely play some 4 here and when Mitch comes back our lineup for 15-20 of each game might look something like this:

Mitch/Precious
KAT
OG
Bridges/McBride
Brunson/Payne

That is a towering lineup that can do everything. Defend, Rebound (both offensively and defensively). Shoot the 3, ball handle.

You bastard! You killed Josh!!!

[JayTWill]

The first two teams in the league for offensive rating are two teams that have played years together, the Knicks have only played weeks together and are the third rated offense. This is with one of their two top stars and main offensive engine starting slowly and another of their newly acquired starters being inconsistent.

This bodes well for the team once their chemistry and consistency finally come together. This can be said for their defense as well since they are already a top ten rated defense with the same circumstances of new players still needing to develop chemistry and consistency.

Don't forget... with Thibs Knicks team it's typically .500 till new year's day so it's going to get better as the season goes along.

We already climbed to top 10 defense? Damn.

I may be wrong but I saw a tweet with the Knicks and Cavs next to each other on one of those head graphs that had both teams in the top ten of both categories and the tweeter asked something to the effect of these two teams should have similar record, right? It was when Cavs were undefeated and the Knicks .500.

I'm sure someone can pull some stat out of the arse showing how the Knicks are middle of the pack defensively using some nerd gooning advanced metric but that is what the graph showed of net ratings as of a few games back and I'm pretty sure the Knicks are close to the same right now.

I have no clue who Michael Grogins is but I believe this is the tweet you are referring to from the morning of November 15th

Read on Twitter

I don't know where he got those numbers from. He didn't provide any source or even a complete photo of the graph. Yes the Cavs were 13-0 and the Knicks were 5-6 at the point but the Cavs had the #2 Offensive rating, the #6 Defensive Rating and the #2 Net Rating at 11.0

The Knicks had the #4 Offensive rating, the #20 Defensive rating and the #8 Net rating at 4.2

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?DateFrom=10/22/2024&DateTo=11/14/2024&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

[Iron Mantis]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Unreal Talent Folksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it possible to undo the trade, then redo the trade again just so I can relive that unfiltered rush of dumping Ranle and bringing in the greatest big man shooter of all time?

[Jalen Bluntson]

I hate waiting for the late games. Years ago I wouldn't even bother because we were most likely gonna lose every game on the road trip. Now I have to wait patiently because we are one of the best teams in the league. Awesome! It's really been a fun few years around here. The lone exception was the guano/kemba season. I'll take the low with the highs though. Feeling confident we can win pretty much every game is still a little weird to me but, it's awesome! LFGK!

Lets see if the chemistry has set enough yet that we can start consistently winning. Until then it might be a bit inconsistent/volatile. Each and every game is still a bit of an unknown bc you never fully know what we going to get.

I am not as crazy as I seem. I know we could still be up and down for a while. We still have a "weak" bench and it is still early in the process. Just knowing we have a chance to beat anyone is a big difference from most of the last two plus decades.

I love this FO. Dolan is not even a thought in anyone's mind anymore. The circus has left town. The players are all high IQ players who seem like really good dudes off the court as well. No drama. No bad contracts. Solid rookies to develop. The media is giving us respect. It's like we are living in another reality. It's so weird after 20+ years of dysfunction and terrible basketball. We are not the worst anymore. We are locked in to this for the next 4 years too? It still doesn't seem real.

[KnixinSix]

Now Months ago when I kept saying KAT lines up perfectly to get traded here I did say I believe he will definitely play some 4 here and when Mitch comes back our lineup for 15-20 of each game might look something like this:

Mitch/Precious
KAT
OG
Bridges/McBride
Brunson/Payne

That is a towering lineup that can do everything. Defend, Rebound (both offensively and defensively). Shoot the 3, ball handle.

You bastard! You killed Josh!!!

The starting unit STILL would be the 5 now. This would be another type of lineup they rotate in (and Hart can play either 2 , 3 in that configuration too)

[KnixinSix]

I hate waiting for the late games. Years ago I wouldn't even bother because we were most likely gonna lose every game on the road trip. Now I have to wait patiently because we are one of the best teams in the league. Awesome! It's really been a fun few years around here. The lone exception was the guano/kemba season. I'll take the low with the highs though. Feeling confident we can win pretty much every game is still a little weird to me but, it's awesome! LFGK!

Lets see if the chemistry has set enough yet that we can start consistently winning. Until then it might be a bit inconsistent/volatile. Each and every game is still a bit of an unknown bc you never fully know what we going to get.

I am not as crazy as I seem. I know we could still be up and down for a while. We still have a "weak" bench and it is still early in the process. Just knowing we have a chance to beat anyone is a big difference from most of the last two plus decades.

I love this FO. Dolan is not even a thought in anyone's mind anymore. The circus has left town. The players are all high IQ players who seem like really good dudes off the court as well. No drama. No bad contracts. Solid rookies to develop. The media is giving us respect. It's like we are living in another reality. It's so weird after 20+ years of dysfunction and terrible basketball. We are not the worst anymore. We are locked in to this for the next 4 years too? It still doesn't seem real.

I am in total agreement with you JB. Now the Giants are the NY Knicks pre-Leon. Lol

[Buttah304]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Getting better and better Folkssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both numbers are eye popping, though.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

Yep and those numbers don’t actually reflect the shots he’s actually contesting in the restricted area. DFG% does that. For the season KAT has a DFG% of 73% <6 feet, letting opponents shoot 9.5% better at the rim. That DFG% at protecting the rim is in the same territory as point guards. Hes worst than every starting big in the league, not hyperbole. People are really trying to act like he’s in the same territory as Chet, JJJ and Mobley on defense KAT is a good offensive player but his rim protection is historically trash. It’s not a coincidence that people in our FO are banking on Mitch to save our defense at the 5.

Couple of things. KAT is not a “good” offensive player. He’s borderline elite as an offensive hub. OG to me is a good offensive player (3s, dunks, mid range, slashing) etc.

Number two, we truly got spoiled with iHart. His DFG% last season was 53% (outstanding) and KAT notoriously is around 62% (big drop-off). In fact, the only players who essentially graded out better than iHart owning the paint was Chet, Gobert, KP, Zubac and Kessler.

If you look at KAT in November (10 games) he’s back to that number I mentioned (62.8%). Again, not what you want out of your C, but you should be able to live with it if you get your defensive bigs back (timeline on these guys are still up in the air).

And if we’re being fair, one of the last parts of a defensive possession is (a) boxing out and (b) fighting for highly contested rebounds in traffic. It’s undeniable how good KAT is at both of these things, and a large portion of the fanbase really didn’t anticipate that.

I think part of the reason why people believe we have a high ceiling is because of how good our offense is starting to look. Yes, any fan/die-hard can look at last years team O-Rating and say “we were 7th and now we’re 3rd so it’s not a huge increase.”

Having said that, you have to go a step further and look underneath the hood. This year we are 3rd in assists per 100 possessions, 2nd TS% and 2nd in EFG%. Last year we were 28th in assist per 100 possessions, 16th in EFG% and 20th in TS%.

Here’s to hoping we can button up the defensive side of the ball as the year unfolds.

[rajajackal]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Unreal Talent Folksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

elite triangle execution phil jackson's smiling somewhere

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Unreal Talent Folksssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it possible to undo the trade, then redo the trade again just so I can relive that unfiltered rush of dumping Ranle and bringing in the greatest big man shooter of all time?

That Shams trade tweet hit like rain in a drought.

Watch on YouTube