Giannis to Cleveland

[JayMKE]

I feel like our spacing would be problematic after this. I'm also not willing to throw away a 15-0 start because we lost by 3, to the defending champs, on a night where all of Wade, Okoro, LeVert and Strus were unavailable. A lot people insisted we break up this team last summer. I'd finish out the season and playoffs.

The Cavs will continue to face spacing issues in the playoffs, regardless of whether this trade happens. I also saw how the Celtics targeted Darius with Tatum and Brown on nearly every possession down the stretch, and that will continue as well. That is actually more concerning than the spacing. I believe the Cavs have a better chance against Boston with a closing lineup like Mitchell, LeVert, Wade, Giannis, and Mobley, or Mitchell, LeVert, Okoro, Giannis, and Mobley. To me, it’s a straightforward decision for Cleveland. The Cavs can compete now, but after this trade, they would be in a much better position to actually win a title.

If this is what you think “massive value” is then the Bucks are better off from a competitive and rebuilding stand point keeping Giannis until he retires. Just terrible.

[jbk1234]

Things to consider: Derrick White is the best defensive guard in the NBA. Instead of being assigned to Garland, he's going to be assigned to Mitchell. The Celtics will absolutely play some type of box and one against the Cavs after this and live with all the guys you have starting, except Mitchell, shooting threes.

Yes the Celtics targeted Garland going down the stretch, especially with Niang instead of Allen providing help, but I'd encourage you to go back and look at their conversion rate doing that. The very obvious defensive breakdown was playing that zone with a three guard lineup against one of the best three point shooting teams in the league.

Garland had a bad game offensively. He needs to watch the tape. He got baited into commiting too often. Both White and Horford are very good at recovering from the backside. However, if the Celtics game plan is going to be to stop Garland come what may, then there are ways to counter that. Maybe Garland averages double digit assists but only 12 ppg in that series.

you might be right about all of this... and every bit of it supports the idea of making the OP trade if you have the chance. shockingly two small guards might become problematic against the best teams in the playoffs, lol. if you can add Giannis and not give up Mobley, don't think CLE could realistically say no. then you dump the GM and get someone in here that can build around a roster transformed by a large trade.

None of this is responsive to the concerns I raised. The Bucks have Brook Lopez. The Cavs do not. Giannis gets himself into trouble when he gets frustrated and barrels into a crowded paint. He commits a lot of offensive fouls, and even with league only calling two out of three of them, finds himself in foul trouble against good defensive teams.

You make this trade and you're betting that Mobley is not only a better fit with Giannis than B. Lopez, but adds so much excess value that the Cavs will outperform the current version of the Bucks AND the current version of the Cavs. You're doing that despite there being every reason to believe that Mitchell will also have to deal with a crowded paint.

Finally, there's no retooling the roster after this trade. You have no picks, no cap space, and no players with really good trade value.

[brackdan70]

CJ worth more than Giannis now

lol, no

CJ worth more than Giannis now

Don't.

I guess I should’ve put a question mark… NO getting more value for CJ than Milwaukee is

Ah. I see. You are noting that it appears that CJ is valued higher in this particular proposal.
Yeah that’s one of the issues with this trade.

[Ron Swanson]

I've actually posited that getting their picks back from the Pelicans would be much more preferable to the Bucks than any of these, quite frankly, really really bad pick-centered Giannis trade packages if they felt forced to pull the trigger before the deadline (they could then theoretically tank for Flagg or Bailey).

So the structure is sensible. The value though? C'mon, this is just another unserious offer lacking any significant additional draft compensation and player assets. New Orleans and Milwaukee hold all the cards here yet somehow Cleveland is the one fleecing both? If Mobley isn't on the table, Cleveland just doesn't have the assets to land Giannis. Not really close even.

[Texas Chuck]

Please stop making terrible Giannis trades idk why mods defend this

You could try, IDK, asking.

but the thing is, you and I have already had this conversation and you have continue to ignore the explanation so kindly stop pretending you actually care why the mods allow posters to explore ideas. The onus is on you to read the title of the thread, see that it is a Giannis trade and simply not open the thread.

Easy. But otherwise the mods will continue to allow posters to explore ideas even if you specifically don't like them. Especially since the solution for you is painfully simple. Ignore the thread.

[yoyoboy]

If Mobley isn't on the table, Cleveland just doesn't have the assets to land Giannis. Not really close even.

Mitchell, Garland, and Allen would be “not really close” in value to Giannis alone?

[Ron Swanson]

If Mobley isn't on the table, Cleveland just doesn't have the assets to land Giannis. Not really close even.

Mitchell, Garland, and Allen would be “not really close” in value to Giannis alone?

I would think the basic assumption here is that the goal is to pair Mitchell with Giannis.

[jbk1234]

If Mobley isn't on the table, Cleveland just doesn't have the assets to land Giannis. Not really close even.

Mitchell, Garland, and Allen would be “not really close” in value to Giannis alone?

I would think the basic assumption here is that the goal is to pair Mitchell with Giannis.

There are a lot of assumptions here, starting with the Cavs being interested in dealing core players to add Giannis.

[Ron Swanson]

Mitchell, Garland, and Allen would be “not really close” in value to Giannis alone?

I would think the basic assumption here is that the goal is to pair Mitchell with Giannis.

There are a lot of assumptions here, starting with the Cavs being interested in dealing core players to add Giannis.

The only starting "assumption" here is the entire premise of this thread, i.e. that Giannis is unhappy and the Bucks would look to trade him when there is so far zero evidence that's the case other than wishful thinking. You can balk at Mobley and that's fine, but if people wanna entertain these hypothetical trades, then some semblance of realistic value has to be presented here. The bones of this trade proposal is far from that.

[Texas Chuck]

I mean there have to be some "assumptions" to have any fictional discussion of note here. Especially involving a player like Giannis.

So here are some of mine:

1. For the Bucks to even entertain a Giannis trade this year, he has to have gone to them and asked out.
2. Giannis would have a list of team(s) that he would prefer to go to.
3. The Bucks would work hard to honor his list if they agreed to trade him
4. Without knowing Giannis' preferences specifically(and it may be just to stay put, but for the sake of discussion...), Cleveland having one close loss to the defending champion being their only blemish makes them a reasonable destination.
5. Cleveland wouldn't insist on withholding Mobley whose ceiling is pretty far beneath current Giannis and if this start doesn't make you think your time is now, nothing will.

Now is there enough for the Cavs to reasonably add to Mobley with the salary matching restrictions of a 2nd apron team? And the BYC issues? I think its probably too difficult a needle to thread.

[jbk1234]

I mean there have to be some "assumptions" to have any fictional discussion of note here. Especially involving a player like Giannis.

So here are some of mine:

1. For the Bucks to even entertain a Giannis trade this year, he has to have gone to them and asked out.
2. Giannis would have a list of team(s) that he would prefer to go to.
3. The Bucks would work hard to honor his list if they agreed to trade him
4. Without knowing Giannis' preferences specifically(and it may be just to stay put, but for the sake of discussion...), Cleveland having one close loss to the defending champion being their only blemish makes them a reasonable destination.
5. Cleveland wouldn't insist on withholding Mobley whose ceiling is pretty far beneath current Giannis and if this start doesn't make you think your time is now, nothing will.

Now is there enough for the Cavs to reasonably add to Mobley with the salary matching restrictions of a 2nd apron team? And the BYC issues? I think its probably too difficult a needle to thread.

I'd argue No. 5 is an assumption as well. Giannis didn't average 20 ppg until his 4th season. Mobley is cirrently at 18.4. He's only 22.

[Texas Chuck]

Yes I literally included number 5 under my list of assumptions. But I feel very very confident Mobley is never a Giannis level player. I accept you feel differently, but its my assumption.

[jbk1234]

Yes I literally included number 5 under my list of assumptions. But I feel very very confident Mobley is never a Giannis level player. I accept you feel differently, but its my assumption.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-says-of-evan-mobley-he-can-be-better-than-me

[SkyHook]

I mean there have to be some "assumptions" to have any fictional discussion of note here. Especially involving a player like Giannis.

So here are some of mine:

1. For the Bucks to even entertain a Giannis trade this year, he has to have gone to them and asked out.
2. Giannis would have a list of team(s) that he would prefer to go to.
3. The Bucks would work hard to honor his list if they agreed to trade him
4. Without knowing Giannis' preferences specifically(and it may be just to stay put, but for the sake of discussion...), Cleveland having one close loss to the defending champion being their only blemish makes them a reasonable destination.
5. Cleveland wouldn't insist on withholding Mobley whose ceiling is pretty far beneath current Giannis and if this start doesn't make you think your time is now, nothing will.

Now is there enough for the Cavs to reasonably add to Mobley with the salary matching restrictions of a 2nd apron team? And the BYC issues? I think its probably too difficult a needle to thread.

I'd argue No. 5 is an assumption as well. Giannis didn't average 20 ppg until his 4th season. Mobley is cirrently at 18.4. He's only 22.

Mobley is 23 and a half and in his 4th season. Giannis hadn't yet turned 22 by this point in his 4th season and he was the MIP, 7th in MVP voting, a 1st time All Star, and 2nd team All-NBA that year. I like Mobley, but he's a ways off from all of that.

[Texas Chuck]

Yes I literally included number 5 under my list of assumptions. But I feel very very confident Mobley is never a Giannis level player. I accept you feel differently, but its my assumption.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-says-of-evan-mobley-he-can-be-better-than-me

Giannis and I have different opinions as well. I still stand by my belief. Plus the whole Giannis is Giannis now and Mobley is maybe MVP level later, which for me makes Giannis have more trade value even if I was as bullish on Mobley as you and Giannis--which of course I'm not.

[JayMKE]

Yes I literally included number 5 under my list of assumptions. But I feel very very confident Mobley is never a Giannis level player. I accept you feel differently, but its my assumption.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-says-of-evan-mobley-he-can-be-better-than-me

Giannis said the same thing about Thon Maker dude, players are not good or honest evaluators of talent.

[KuruptedCav]

I don’t hate the premise, I just don’t think the directions make sense.

1) If Milwaukee is moving on from Giannis, Garland isn’t the guy they want coming back. He’ll raise the floor and reduce the value of the trade. Also, he’s not a top-20 player. Mobley is the player they want because they can stymie impact by trading Dame and he has “potential.”

Mobley is effectively untradeable with the PPP.

2) The Cavs doing a 3 for 1.5 consolidation (their C, SF, and PG) would effectively be rebuilding the current Bucks team. It zaps depth and locks their hand.

3) I think the Pelicans value is off, especially given the difficulty in guaranteeing a top-5 pick with current lottery.


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