Shams: Patrick Williams to sign 5/90 deal

[Chi town]

Is it loss of athleticism, injury, or…

Just Pat not wanting to jump as high as he can?!??

LOL. Who knows with him. Maybe all of the above.

[DASMACKDOWN]

And Pat never once on the floor, in his five year NBA career, played basically one quarter of insipired motivated basketball. Never once expressed frustration or anger for missed assignement, for bad shot, for stupid foul, missed dunk. Does his 8-17 job and goes home and rest his head. Good players hate to lose and hate themselves. If they had bad games they would after game and went practice. You dont hear or see story like that for Pat.

Meh its just his personality. Do you remember the Derrick Rose emotions meme? Derrick Rose - Happy, Derrick Rose - sad Derrick Rose - confused and they all had the same face? Well that was Derrick's personality.

Pat from Day 1, he has had a completely stoic personality. This dates back to high school.

You can tell its not fake. He just never really gets emotional in either direction. Its actually a surprise if he does. Kawhi is his favorite player because he basically has Kawhi's personality. Notice I didn't say game.

I actually think him being non emotional hurts him with Bulls fans. We always gravitate to personalities. Derrick was different because Derricks' game did the talking. Obviously Pat doesn't have anything close to that.

[CROBulls]

And Pat never once on the floor, in his five year NBA career, played basically one quarter of insipired motivated basketball. Never once expressed frustration or anger for missed assignement, for bad shot, for stupid foul, missed dunk. Does his 8-17 job and goes home and rest his head. Good players hate to lose and hate themselves. If they had bad games they would after game and went practice. You dont hear or see story like that for Pat.

Meh its just his personality. Do you remember the Derrick Rose emotions meme? Derrick Rose - Happy, Derrick Rose - sad Derrick Rose - confused and they all had the same face? Well that was Derrick's personality.

Pat from Day 1, he has had a completely stoic personality. This dates back to high school.

You can tell its not fake. He just never really gets emotional in either direction. Its actually a surprise if he does. Kawhi is his favorite player because he basically has Kawhi's personality. Notice I didn't say game.

I actually think him being non emotional hurts him with Bulls fans. We always gravitate to personalities. Derrick was different because Derricks' game did the talking. Obviously Pat doesn't have anything close to that.

Derrick Rose played with heart on floor. Every move on floor he made was straight out winning playbook. When he played prior injuries, you never doubted his skillset or will or motivation to kill you on floor. Yes, his personality was asocial, he wasnt nearly charimatic person to be leader. We had Noah for that. But he was pure breed basketball player, old school from Kobe Bryant tree. Generational talent.

I dont need my NBA players to be charismatic. But I want them be winners and pure breed basketball players first. Who like to compete and show that on floor. And get better. And Derrick was by 3rd year in league MVP guy in lot more tougher league. They are nothing a like. Guy literally left his knees and body on basketball floor. People dont appreciate that anymore, but I do.

But Patrick never showed anything on floor. And when you take his personality with that together you get sum of nothing worth 20M.

[panthermark]

And Pat never once on the floor, in his five year NBA career, played basically one quarter of insipired motivated basketball. Never once expressed frustration or anger for missed assignement, for bad shot, for stupid foul, missed dunk. Does his 8-17 job and goes home and rest his head. Good players hate to lose and hate themselves. If they had bad games they would after game and went practice. You dont hear or see story like that for Pat.

Meh its just his personality. Do you remember the Derrick Rose emotions meme? Derrick Rose - Happy, Derrick Rose - sad Derrick Rose - confused and they all had the same face? Well that was Derrick's personality.

Pat from Day 1, he has had a completely stoic personality. This dates back to high school.

You can tell its not fake. He just never really gets emotional in either direction. Its actually a surprise if he does. Kawhi is his favorite player because he basically has Kawhi's personality. Notice I didn't say game.

I actually think him being non emotional hurts him with Bulls fans. We always gravitate to personalities. Derrick was different because Derricks' game did the talking. Obviously Pat doesn't have anything close to that.

Pre-injury Rose was more like Tim Duncan.
Neither were very emotional on the outside, but their fire was intense.

Mr "not everyone can be a star" is more like Eddie Robinson or Andrew Bynum or Eddie Curry. Absolute ZERO fire. I don't know if losing bothers him at all, because it sure does not feel like winning a ring is HIS motivation.

[GoBlue72391]

Is it loss of athleticism, injury, or…

Just Pat not wanting to jump as high as he can?!??

LOL. Who knows with him. Maybe all of the above.

"Wait, you've only been jumping 50% of your ability this whole time?" Reminds me of when Homer's arm was stuck in the vending machine only because he wouldn't let go of the can.

[RastaBull]

Just heard Windy report on NBA Today that Pat is out tonight. Bulls sent him back to Chicago (granted that’s like 30 min away) … with worry about his foot (not sure if it’s the same foot he’s dealt with before).

Big bummer given way he’s been playing recently. I really how he doesn’t come back and regress towards his lackluster mean.

[sco]

I saw that Billy said that he's out for next 3 games at least with inflamation in his surgically repaired foot and will be seeing a specialist. In the mean time, please give his minutes to Smith/Matas and not Terry/Phillips!

[GoBlue72391]

I saw that Billy said that he's out for next 3 games at least with inflamation in his surgically repaired foot and will be seeing a specialist. In the mean time, please give his minutes to Smith/Matas and not Terry/Phillips!

Are you kidding me? That does not sound good. We can't afford to lose his defense. I've never seen a team with so few competent defenders, it's actually crazy.

[CROBulls]

I saw that Billy said that he's out for next 3 games at least with inflamation in his surgically repaired foot and will be seeing a specialist. In the mean time, please give his minutes to Smith/Matas and not Terry/Phillips!

Are you kidding me? That does not sound good. We can't afford to lose his defense. I've never seen a team with so few competent defenders, it's actually crazy.

We can afford we have no franchise player on roster. Go get one. ☝️ If Billy and AKME are not willing to tank, defense will take care of that itself.

[Stratmaster]

Fun fact. At his young age, PWill has only played in 66% of the games.

The guy on the team who has the reputation of being injury prone, over his 10 year career, has played in 70% of the games.

And Pat has played those 66% at a G-league level. But he is 100% our starting PF, most don't even question that, and is perceived my many to have trade value lol. And almost no one talks about him as being injury prone. They will acknowledge it. But they don't consider it when assessing his value.

[erlim]

Fun fact. At his young age, PWill has only played in 66% of the games.

The guy on the team who has the reputation of being injury prone, over his 10 year career, has played in 70% of the games.

And Pat has played those 66% at a G-league level. But he is 100% our starting PF, most don't even question that, and is perceived my many to have trade value lol. And almost no one talks about him as being injury prone. They will acknowledge it. But they don't consider it when assessing his value.

m

That’s not fun. It’s horrible, and he’s beyond help.

[dougthonus]

Fun fact. At his young age, PWill has only played in 66% of the games.

The guy on the team who has the reputation of being injury prone, over his 10 year career, has played in 70% of the games.

And Pat has played those 66% at a G-league level. But he is 100% our starting PF, most don't even question that, and is perceived my many to have trade value lol. And almost no one talks about him as being injury prone. They will acknowledge it. But they don't consider it when assessing his value.

I think this is all spot on except the part about no one else seeing it. This thread is primarily people dumping on Pat and his contract.

I hope for the best, because 18M per season isn't a particularly big contract, he just has to be a starting caliber player, and the line to get there isn't that difficult because even though he can do very few things, the few he projects to do well are the most important.

The injury risk for him was significantly underplayed though, I (and I'm sure I'm not alone by any stretch) was talking about it on my podcasts over the summer. Bone bruise is what kept Lonzo out for 2.5 years, they often have these horrible recovery times. He was behind schedule in his recovery from it when we signed him prior to hitting FA, and despite being not healthy, potentially not having much of a market, we pre-emptively paid him near the top of his range assuming future health, skill improvement, and were the only team in the league to hand out a 5th year player option to a player in his range.

I don't think Pat's a lost cause, because an athletic defender that can hit 3s on a deal that will land it a few mil a year above the MLE has huge potential to be a value play, but someone like Josh Hart got extended for effectively the same money but for 3 years with a team option on the fourth year. That should have been Pat's contract.

[Stratmaster]

Fun fact. At his young age, PWill has only played in 66% of the games.

The guy on the team who has the reputation of being injury prone, over his 10 year career, has played in 70% of the games.

And Pat has played those 66% at a G-league level. But he is 100% our starting PF, most don't even question that, and is perceived my many to have trade value lol. And almost no one talks about him as being injury prone. They will acknowledge it. But they don't consider it when assessing his value.

I think this is all spot on except the part about no one else seeing it. This thread is primarily people dumping on Pat and his contract.

I hope for the best, because 18M per season isn't a particularly big contract, he just has to be a starting caliber player, and the line to get there isn't that difficult because even though he can do very few things, the few he projects to do well are the most important.

The injury risk for him was significantly underplayed though, I (and I'm sure I'm not alone by any stretch) was talking about it on my podcasts over the summer. Bone bruise is what kept Lonzo out for 2.5 years, they often have these horrible recovery times. He was behind schedule in his recovery from it when we signed him prior to hitting FA, and despite being not healthy, potentially not having much of a market, we pre-emptively paid him near the top of his range assuming future health, skill improvement, and were the only team in the league to hand out a 5th year player option to a player in his range.

I don't think Pat's a lost cause, because an athletic defender that can hit 3s on a deal that will land it a few mil a year above the MLE has huge potential to be a value play, but someone like Josh Hart got extended for effectively the same money but for 3 years with a team option on the fourth year. That should have been Pat's contract.

Agreed. It isn't really the contract that bothers me. It's that for 4 plus seasons he has been gifted a starting position on the team I root for based on nothing. I don't want him here at any price. Not because he couldn't play a role but because the coach and front office are too enamored and/or stupid to put him in the correct bench role and continue to ignore the hole in the roster based on their firm belief he will develop into something.

Meanwhile, other players get blamed and run out of town while forced to play beside this guy who is eating up 12% of the floor minutes; and people wonder why this team never seems to get better, or go anywhere. What if, instead of Pat, the Bulls would have had a quality starting big playing 28 mpg at the 4 for a few of those seasons?

[dougthonus]

Agreed. It isn't really the contract that bothers me. It's that for 4 plus seasons he has been gifted a starting position on the team I root for based on nothing. I don't want him here at any price. Not because he couldn't play a role but because the coach and front office are too enamored and/or stupid to put him in the correct bench role and continue to ignore the hole in the roster based on their firm belief he will develop into something.

Meanwhile, other players get blamed and run out of town while forced to play beside this guy who is eating up 12% of the floor minutes; and people wonder why this team never seems to get better, or go anywhere. What if, instead of Pat, the Bulls would have had a quality starting big playing 28 mpg at the 4 for a few of those seasons?

I think the challenge (to some degree) is we weren't going to get a quality player at the 4 because we had no money and weren't going to go into the tax. It gets down to other problems, which I think all spin back to your initial point around roster construction though.

Pat, DeMar, Vuc, Zach, Lonzo, and now Giddey have all taken turns being the scape goat for various reasons with Lonzo not necessarily anyone blaming him as an individual, but still blaming the dead salary space. In the end, any one of those things is can be partially correct.

Some of the general narratives being:
Vuc: Spent way too many assets to bring him in
DeMar: Spent too many assets, terrible fit, and ultimately kept too long
Pat: Maybe not quite a bust at #4, but certainly not a hit, and was gifted way too much time when regularly outplayed by Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr, and small ball Caruso at the 4
Zach: Extended at way too high a price tag for a guy who has shown questionable BBIQ, poor defense, and poor clutch play
Lonzo: Paid 80 mil for 1/3rd of a season
Giddey: Gave up our best asset for him, can't defend, shoot, and doesn't help you win, but we need to make a decision immediately

Whichever one of those narratives has momentum at the moment, all of them are sort of true, and holistically, our front office has brought in a group of guys that don't fit together and seems to gamble on talent while ignoring how the game of basketball is played as a team. Sometimes you need to make compromises, because a superstar is not out there for us to just go grab, and guys who fit the modern NBA meta are expensive, but you can't compromise on every big swing and also wait until you have 100% assurance that what you tried will not work before pivoting (because at this point everyone else also knows it won't work and your value returned on the pivot is way less).

[Stratmaster]

Agreed. It isn't really the contract that bothers me. It's that for 4 plus seasons he has been gifted a starting position on the team I root for based on nothing. I don't want him here at any price. Not because he couldn't play a role but because the coach and front office are too enamored and/or stupid to put him in the correct bench role and continue to ignore the hole in the roster based on their firm belief he will develop into something.

Meanwhile, other players get blamed and run out of town while forced to play beside this guy who is eating up 12% of the floor minutes; and people wonder why this team never seems to get better, or go anywhere. What if, instead of Pat, the Bulls would have had a quality starting big playing 28 mpg at the 4 for a few of those seasons?

I think the challenge (to some degree) is we weren't going to get a quality player at the 4 because we had no money and weren't going to go into the tax. It gets down to other problems, which I think all spin back to your initial point around roster construction though.

Pat, DeMar, Vuc, Zach, Lonzo, and now Giddey have all taken turns being the scape goat for various reasons with Lonzo not necessarily anyone blaming him as an individual, but still blaming the dead salary space. In the end, any one of those things is can be partially correct.

Some of the general narratives being:
Vuc: Spent way too many assets to bring him in
DeMar: Spent too many assets, terrible fit, and ultimately kept too long
Pat: Maybe not quite a bust at #4, but certainly not a hit, and was gifted way too much time when regularly outplayed by Javonte Green, Derrick Jones Jr, and small ball Caruso at the 4
Zach: Extended at way too high a price tag for a guy who has shown questionable BBIQ, poor defense, and poor clutch play
Lonzo: Paid 80 mil for 1/3rd of a season
Giddey: Gave up our best asset for him, can't defend, shoot, and doesn't help you win, but we need to make a decision immediately

Whichever one of those narratives has momentum at the moment, all of them are sort of true, and holistically, our front office has brought in a group of guys that don't fit together and seems to gamble on talent while ignoring how the game of basketball is played as a team. Sometimes you need to make compromises, because a superstar is not out there for us to just go grab, and guys who fit the modern NBA meta are expensive, but you can't compromise on every big swing and also wait until you have 100% assurance that what you tried will not work before pivoting (because at this point everyone else also knows it won't work and your value returned on the pivot is way less).

All true. I still go back to Demar. I was all for getting him but after watching him the first season here I quickly realized the Bulls needed to move him. Demar is a high end scorer; but wasn't what the Bulls needed. He and Pwill should have been able to fetch the Bulls a starting 4 who could have made a significant impact.

It was frustrating as hell listening to everyone complain about fit and roster construction; then wanting to shed guys who could actually fit and keep the guy who was redundant and somewhat in the way. Especially with Billy basically turning the team over to him. It was a wasted 4 seasons that could have been much more.

I will get over it sooner or later... I guess.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I guess my ire for Pat the last two games wasn't his fault.

I blame the medical staff for letting him play. Now he maybe out a week or longer.

[Chi town]

I will be surprised if Pat doesn’t miss Months at some point. He did the same thing last year trying to play through it. He played poorly and then paid for it with surgery.

[Stratmaster]

I guess my ire for Pat the last two games wasn't his fault.

I blame the medical staff for letting him play. Now he maybe out a week or longer.

I believe he would have been out that long one way or another. If that inflammation was bad enough that he should have been kept out then it was going to take a couple weeks to resolve it. There is really only one treatment, isn't there? Rest, Naproxen and ice to address the inflammation.

This sounds like it is going to be an ongoing issue. Sooner or later the organization will have to wake up and realize they need to find someone to fill the role they had hoped Williams would fill. He can't stay on the court physically and he is not very good when he is on the court.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

He has to change the whole way he moves, there must be some sort of force-imbalance. He's always ran weird.

[GoBlue72391]

The cat is out of the bag. This problem is no longer confined to the small corner of Bulls fandom, it's making the rounds on social media. Next thing you know Chuck and Shaq will be roasting him and the Bulls org.

Embarrassing

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