Pulse check: Tank

[Basketball_Jones]

Been a bit of a roller coaster already for me to be honest. I get excited for each loss then realize it’s still a long way to go and we just won a game we’re supposed to lose. Best thing to do is just not worry about it we’ll end up wherever we do.

[ciueli]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

[Thaddy]

I am scared the tank wont be strong enough.

IT wont be.

Our most used lineup is Davion/Dick/RJ/Ochai/Poeltl. It has a +4.4NRTG. That means right now our starting lineup is winning their minutes, and we are losing when the bench comes in. Our bench eventually is going to include 2 (or 3) of our current starters, and we will add Kelly and Brown as well and suddenly our bench won't be losing us games anymore.

If we actually want to tank there is work to be done. Or, we just let it ride once healthy and hope the decrese in odds is worth the additional curent talent and pray for better lottery odds.

Important to remember even if we are 30th in the league there is a 50% chance we DONT pick top 5.

Shead has been pretty bad this year despite looking good when you watch him. If we turn Boucher, Brown, and Mitchell into 2nd round picks it would affect our bench enough to make us a losing team. We can push that value into the future and into flexibility.

Trading Poeltl has a lot of implications. It would force Barnes to play as a small ball C, when we should be developing him for better guard skills like creation ability. We will have to likely push our guys to be stronger rebounders but this will impact our transition basketball. A rebounder, good passing, and mobile big like Poeltl helps a lot with getting going in transition.

Poeltl has a direct impact with screens, outlet passes, and his passing. It makes Agbaji look a lot better than he is and hides his poor offense in the half court by giving him opportunity in transition. This also helps Barrett and Dick develop that skill too. Getting Barnes, IQ, and RJ (Shown huge improvements there) good screens to improve isolation ability. Poeltl is awesome for developing our guards and he does a great job of directing them. I wouldn't trade him for anything other than a bluechip prospect, or a bunch of good picks.

[DelAbbot]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

The play-in is such an artificial device that hypes mediocrity into "playoff" status and makes short term focused fans want to compete. Play-in is not worth chasing or talking about, when we are supposed to be accumulating (top tier) assets.

[WhatsaTDot]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

You can say whatever you want, but we are certainly tanking. Caution has been to the extreme. We still suck regardless of who is in or out.

[ciueli]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

You can say whatever you want, but we are certainly tanking. Caution has been to the extreme. We still suck regardless of who is in or out.

If this team was 100% healthy from day 1 they're probably 7-8 instead of 3-12. If you don't think the injuries to the top players mean anything you're just wilfully ignoring reality. Don't be surprised if the team is pushing for the play in once IQ and Scottie get back, as I said, there's only 3 games back right now and the season has gone about as poorly as it possibly can, the East is a dumpster fire this season.

[bluerap23]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

The play-in is such an artificial device that hypes mediocrity into "playoff" status and makes short term focused fans want to compete. Play-in is not worth chasing or talking about, when we are supposed to be accumulating (top tier) assets.

The play-in is good in the west. They should change it up so that the top 6 from each conference get in and then the next 6 in the entire league play in a tourney.

[OakleyDokely]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

You can say whatever you want, but we are certainly tanking. Caution has been to the extreme. We still suck regardless of who is in or out.

If this team was 100% healthy from day 1 they're probably 7-8 instead of 3-12. If you don't think the injuries to the top players mean anything you're just wilfully ignoring reality. Don't be surprised if the team is pushing for the play in once IQ and Scottie get back, as I said, there's only 3 games back right now and the season has gone about as poorly as it possibly can, the East is a dumpster fire this season.

The east sucks.

The Raps could be winless and still be in the play-in race.

[wegotthabeet]

who are the 13 guys who voted "hate it"? let's beat them up.

[HangTime]

Be honest, does this actually feel like a tank job? or a learning opportunity?

I still see us in the playoffs, as long as everyone's relatively healthy.

[TheAlchemist23]

I don't mind selling high on Poeltl or Barnes

[WhatsaTDot]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

You can say whatever you want, but we are certainly tanking. Caution has been to the extreme. We still suck regardless of who is in or out.

If this team was 100% healthy from day 1 they're probably 7-8 instead of 3-12. If you don't think the injuries to the top players mean anything you're just wilfully ignoring reality. Don't be surprised if the team is pushing for the play in once IQ and Scottie get back, as I said, there's only 3 games back right now and the season has gone about as poorly as it possibly can, the East is a dumpster fire this season.

I don't agree. The top players aren't difference makers and the players that have been given the chance in the absence of those players to score the ball more have been over performing that adds to the illusion of us having multiple ready now, good players.

[Phezmo123]

I am scared the tank wont be strong enough.

IT wont be.

Our most used lineup is Davion/Dick/RJ/Ochai/Poeltl. It has a +4.4NRTG. That means right now our starting lineup is winning their minutes, and we are losing when the bench comes in. Our bench eventually is going to include 2 (or 3) of our current starters, and we will add Kelly and Brown as well and suddenly our bench won't be losing us games anymore.

If we actually want to tank there is work to be done. Or, we just let it ride once healthy and hope the decrese in odds is worth the additional curent talent and pray for better lottery odds.

Important to remember even if we are 30th in the league there is a 50% chance we DONT pick top 5.

Shead has been pretty bad this year despite looking good when you watch him. If we turn Boucher, Brown, and Mitchell into 2nd round picks it would affect our bench enough to make us a losing team. We can push that value into the future and into flexibility.

Trading Poeltl has a lot of implications. It would force Barnes to play as a small ball C, when we should be developing him for better guard skills like creation ability. We will have to likely push our guys to be stronger rebounders but this will impact our transition basketball. A rebounder, good passing, and mobile big like Poeltl helps a lot with getting going in transition.

Poeltl has a direct impact with screens, outlet passes, and his passing. It makes Agbaji look a lot better than he is and hides his poor offense in the half court by giving him opportunity in transition. This also helps Barrett and Dick develop that skill too. Getting Barnes, IQ, and RJ (Shown huge improvements there) good screens to improve isolation ability. Poeltl is awesome for developing our guards and he does a great job of directing them. I wouldn't trade him for anything other than a bluechip prospect, or a bunch of good picks.

ngl u sold me on keeping poeltl

guess we'll live with the 7th-8th pick again

[Scase]

Is there any rough framework of trade that could net us that okc-philly pick? Can Hartenstein be traded? Wouldnt mind unloading the 26 indy pick if it means having 2 cracks at a top 3 pick this year

Philly is top 6 protected IIRC, as for IH, he's open for trade as of Dec 15th.

[DelAbbot]

This is why I said they weren't tanking if they didn't trade Jak. We literally haven't played a game with our top 4 players in the same game, all of our top 3 players have missed significant time and we're still just tied for the 3rd worst record in the league and only 3 games back of the play-in.

The play-in is such an artificial device that hypes mediocrity into "playoff" status and makes short term focused fans want to compete. Play-in is not worth chasing or talking about, when we are supposed to be accumulating (top tier) assets.

The play-in is good in the west. They should change it up so that the top 6 from each conference get in and then the next 6 in the entire league play in a tourney.

That makes sense

[Parataxis]

As long as they're encouraging the kids to play hard and go for it every game, I'm all in.

The tanking should be at the front office level, not at courtlevel.