Game Thread: NY Knicks at Phoenix Suns Wed, Nov 20 10:00 PM

[Spree2Houston]

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Towns and Jhart and Og wayyyyyy too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They did the same thing last year with Brunson lol

[Jeff Van Gully]

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CHICKEN

You're missing out on one of the best shooters in the NBA and Twitter because of your hate

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"pre madonna" is one of my favorite educational litmus tests.

i have to wonder what people who write that think it means.

[stuporman]

You're missing the forest for the trees by overly focusing on rim protection. It's a very specific issue

Seems like someone is trying to protect their own rim considering the performance of some of the mancrushes they have on certain players with that same specific issue.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn. mitch grew out of his jardiniere. that's crazy.

[stuporman]

Once the Knicks get Deuce, Precious and Mitch their rotation becomes deeper again but it also means fans won't see the kids anymore.

we'll see them in the countless blowout wins.

...obligatory

[TheGreenArrow]

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MVP Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stuporman]

CHICKEN

You're missing out on one of the best shooters in the NBA and Twitter because of your hate

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"pre madonna" is one of my favorite educational litmus tests.

i have to wonder what people who write that think it means.

Obviously it's the time before July 27, 1983!!!! DUH!!!!















Yes I had to google that

[Chanel Bomber]

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CHICKEN

You're missing out on one of the best shooters in the NBA and Twitter because of your hate

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I know

Also, I always get annoyed when people write "pre-Madonna". I don't care too much about spelling but this one tortures me every time.

[stuporman]

There are 7 teams with an AST to TO ratio above 2.0 and atop the list is the Knicks with 2.26. All the teams are winning teams and the top teams in the league with the Nugs and Knicks having the worst records of the bunch.

There are also only two teams with an assist ratio of 20% or better...the Knicks are the number 1 team.

[Capn'O]

CHICKEN

You're missing out on one of the best shooters in the NBA and Twitter because of your hate

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"pre madonna" is one of my favorite educational litmus tests.

i have to wonder what people who write that think it means.

Roughly 1982.

Obviously it's the time before July 27, 1983!!!! DUH!!!!

[Guano]

CHICKEN

You're missing out on one of the best shooters in the NBA and Twitter because of your hate

Read on Twitter

I know

Also, I always get annoyed when people write "pre-Madonna". I don't care too much about spelling but this one tortures me every time.

I want to say "noted" so you're on the look out for me to use this but my memory is disappearing like a rack of oreos in front of meLo.

[KnixinSix]

Yep and those numbers don’t actually reflect the shots he’s actually contesting in the restricted area. DFG% does that. For the season KAT has a DFG% of 73% <6 feet, letting opponents shoot 9.5% better at the rim. That DFG% at protecting the rim is in the same territory as point guards. Hes worst than every starting big in the league, not hyperbole. People are really trying to act like he’s in the same territory as Chet, JJJ and Mobley on defense KAT is a good offensive player but his rim protection is historically trash. It’s not a coincidence that people in our FO are banking on Mitch to save our defense at the 5.

KAT is not historically trash as a rim protector, that's hyperbole, right now is his worst season of his career and those numbers are gradually coming down. You can go through his numbers as a center, and they were never historically bad, they were league average and below in some cases.


DFG%

21/22 - 61.6%
20/21 - 61.9%
19/20 - 58.3%
18/19 - 57.8%
17/18 - 61.1%
16/17 - 60.5%
15/16 - 56.3%


His last year at center the Wolves were 13th defensively, is he great? No, but he's never been the worst, and him having growing pains at C after not playing it for 3 years is to be expected. Also, Mitch was at 70% last season, so it's obviously scheme, Ihart was better at rim than Mitch but worse as a team defender. If Mitch had 70%, and KAT is at 73% right now then it should be pretty clear the scheme is leading to it.

All of those teams he played the 5 they never made the playoffs or they were a first round exit. KAT only had a winning impact when he was at the 4. He has to play the 4 in order for this to work. Also Mitch was injured last year so you can’t really hold that against him.

KAT at the 5 = terrible defense.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Right now he’s just absolutely terrible.

Just how troubling has it been? Opponents are shooting 70.8 percent at the rim when KAT’s on the court and 54.2 percent when he’s off it. (The league average is currently 65.7 percent.) More directly, according to Bball-Index, opposing field goal percentages at the rim when Towns defends a shot are 13.1 percent higher than the shooter’s expected average. This number is so terrible for a big man that the second worst starting center in the category is Vucevic at … 4.8 percent.

According to Cleaning the Glass, their offensive rating with Towns is 125.1 and they’re scoring 8.7 more points per 100 possessions when he plays—two marks that place him in the 94th and 87th percentile at his position, respectively. Meanwhile, the Knicks’ defensive rating is 119.1 and the team is 5.3 points per 100 possessions worse with Towns on the court, putting him in the 22nd and 24th percentile. In simpler terms: Towns ranks 15th in offensive estimated plus-minus and 270th in defensive estimated plus-minus.

What its quickly looking like as the deal with KAT:

He is a monster at almost everything but rim protection will probably never be great. He has in just a few short games shown more value to this team than Randle would have had.

Once we get a more elite rim protector for some minutes at the 5 , we won't have to rely as much on KAT for that dynamic.

[stuporman]

There are two teams with a 50%fg or better...the Cavs and the Knicks.

[stuporman]

The Knicks are 4th in FT% but they are 3rd from the bottom in FTA and one of only 3 teams to take less than 20 attempts a game.

The only team getting screwed harder at the line is the Thunder who have a better FT% and worse FTA per game than the Knicks.

From both NYC and OKC effdem refs

[HarthorneWingo]

Game Thread: NY Knicks at Phoenix Suns Wed, Nov 20 10:00 PM

I'm traveling so won't have a chance to do the game thread for a while.

Knicks face real competition. Can they win?

Enjoy the loss as Thibs plays his starters 48 minutes each!

I don’t believe you anymore. You’ve been EXPOSED as a closet winner.

[Context]

Game Thread: NY Knicks at Phoenix Suns Wed, Nov 20 10:00 PM

I'm traveling so won't have a chance to do the game thread for a while.

Knicks face real competition. Can they win?

Enjoy the loss as Thibs plays his starters 48 minutes each!

I don’t believe you anymore. You’ve been EXPOSED as a closet winner.

Get'em Wingo!

[sol537]

If Philly called you up and offered Joel Embiid for OG + Mitch straight up... what would you say?

[aggo]

If Philly called you up and offered Joel Embiid for OG + Mitch straight up... what would you say?

"how about brunson?"

[Iron Mantis]

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MVP Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aggo]

KAT is not historically trash as a rim protector, that's hyperbole, right now is his worst season of his career and those numbers are gradually coming down. You can go through his numbers as a center, and they were never historically bad, they were league average and below in some cases.


DFG%

21/22 - 61.6%
20/21 - 61.9%
19/20 - 58.3%
18/19 - 57.8%
17/18 - 61.1%
16/17 - 60.5%
15/16 - 56.3%


His last year at center the Wolves were 13th defensively, is he great? No, but he's never been the worst, and him having growing pains at C after not playing it for 3 years is to be expected. Also, Mitch was at 70% last season, so it's obviously scheme, Ihart was better at rim than Mitch but worse as a team defender. If Mitch had 70%, and KAT is at 73% right now then it should be pretty clear the scheme is leading to it.

All of those teams he played the 5 they never made the playoffs or they were a first round exit. KAT only had a winning impact when he was at the 4. He has to play the 4 in order for this to work. Also Mitch was injured last year so you can’t really hold that against him.

KAT at the 5 = terrible defense.

Regardless of the defensive personnel around him, Towns-centered teams were glorified turnstiles for a large part of his early career. Minnesota ranked in the bottom 10 in defense for six straight seasons from 2015-16 to 2020-21, with their best performance coming in the year Towns missed almost half of their games.

Right now he’s just absolutely terrible.

Just how troubling has it been? Opponents are shooting 70.8 percent at the rim when KAT’s on the court and 54.2 percent when he’s off it. (The league average is currently 65.7 percent.) More directly, according to Bball-Index, opposing field goal percentages at the rim when Towns defends a shot are 13.1 percent higher than the shooter’s expected average. This number is so terrible for a big man that the second worst starting center in the category is Vucevic at … 4.8 percent.

According to Cleaning the Glass, their offensive rating with Towns is 125.1 and they’re scoring 8.7 more points per 100 possessions when he plays—two marks that place him in the 94th and 87th percentile at his position, respectively. Meanwhile, the Knicks’ defensive rating is 119.1 and the team is 5.3 points per 100 possessions worse with Towns on the court, putting him in the 22nd and 24th percentile. In simpler terms: Towns ranks 15th in offensive estimated plus-minus and 270th in defensive estimated plus-minus.

What its quickly looking like as the deal with KAT:

He is a monster at almost everything but rim protection will probably never be great. He has in just a few short games shown more value to this team than Randle would have had.

Once we get a more elite rim protector for some minutes at the 5 , we won't have to rely as much on KAT for that dynamic.

the answer is simple


play mitch 20mpg next to KAT