2024-2025 Regular Season Game 16: Orlando Magic (9-6) at Los Angeles Clippers (8-7) - 10:30pm

[eyriq]

Don't sit Goga unless you have to?

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[JoshuaPotter]

That 21-4 run in the 3rd was brutal.

Suggs/KCP/Franz/TDS/Moe got slaughtered, -8 during the start of that run

AB/KCP/Franz/TDS/Moe, -2

AB/KCP/Franz/JI/Moe, -3

Pulled Goga early in the 3rd and proceeded to GET SLAUGHTERED.

I missed some of it because of technical difficulties, but it looked like as soon as they put Moe in, the Clippers went on a run. Moe took a couple of bad shots, and they went down and scored to turn a 4 pt lead to a 9 pt lead. I think Mosely yanked Goga too soon.

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This was around the time I became too frustrated and had to turn it off and go to bed. I don't know why, but Moe was thinking he was his brother last night and started taking contested three's, trying to drive from the wing and create, just dribbling into tough spots, taking the ball up the court, etc. I like Moe on this team a lot, he's the hustle guy, he can surprise you sometimes offensively, but sometimes he gets overconfident and steps outside his zone.

Franz was having an off night for sure. Early in the game he kept losing control of the ball, dribbling it off his legs or feet, etc. Part of that was the Clippers' pesky defense, similar to ours. But part of it I think he was just a bit off. You could tell that kind of threw off his aggression and he lost his focus and kind of stepped back.

I'm not sure when's the line, but we've gotta be close to where Mosley needs to just take KCP out and bench him for AB in the starting lineup. Let Suggs go back to the SG spot and AB run point, at least until KCP figures out his shooting struggles.

It's only 1 loss and I am not sure this is the correct move to make unless we find ourselves on another losing streak. I am pushing a lot of this to tired legs playing in the wrong time zone.

That being said, AB is making every legitimate case for being the PG of the future....today. Please allow me to say "but" I think the reason we wont see that is the staggered rotation. Otherwise Franz or Black have to be one of the first to the bench in favor of whomever is coming in. Right now, Black brings playmaking at a time that rotations are starting to happen and might I add continues to rack up no 1 most played person from the bench anyway.

[JoshuaPotter]

Don't sit Goga unless you have to?

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Its too small of a sample size, but we see similar numbers with WCJ last year.

Ironically though, we are both wondering. What's up with this?

Also wasn't Isaac supposed to be experimented more at C or just not enough minutes to matter?

[VFX]

paying KCP, Cole & Gary Harris 42M sure was a decision...

You can add “reaching for Jett Howard” to that list also. All extremely poor decisions.

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

[RichCollab]

Don't sit Goga unless you have to?

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Goga only plays with starters?

[eyriq]

Don't sit Goga unless you have to?

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Goga only plays with starters?

This starting lineup is mid

[RichCollab]

You can add “reaching for Jett Howard” to that list also. All extremely poor decisions.

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

KCP’s defensive play increases everyone’s steals who are on the floor with him. KCP makes those around him better.

[RichCollab]

Don't sit Goga unless you have to?

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Goga only plays with starters?

This starting lineup is mid

LOL

[VFX]

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

KCP’s defensive play increases everyone’s steals who are on the floor with him. KCP makes those around him better.

Orlando was 3rd in defensive ranking last season before acquiring KCP.

Anthony Black is better defensively than KCP and was already on the roster. So who cares.

If he isnt hitting shots he was an objectively bad signing.

[basketballRob]

Bronny is out tonight

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[JoshuaPotter]

Bronny is out tonight

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were spared!!!!!

wait which bron?

[drsd]

Just got through the game.

I felt like it was the late-90s again. Loved this game from an entertainment perspective.
Horrible result, obviously.

Box score thoughts;

Orlando lost the FG% battle (badly) and lost the game.

24 rebounds? Come on. That's not ok.
2 offensive rebounds only. Really?!?!?!?

Another strong FT% night.

In the end, the Magic was not blown out because of a stellar blocks differential and (even on the back of a high TO night), the Magic actually dominated TO-differential. Defense maters. Especially on the road,.

But: and I hate being the Debbie downer, the 8-35 three-ball is the sole reason the Magic lost this game. Can we please get some shooting on the roster?????

Road games are tough and the Magic was gonna lose one of these. T'is what it is. Bad loss. Move on.

[drsd]

p.s. if we were gonna reintroduce the dunce cap of defeat, Caldwell-pope would get 4 or 5 on my lone votes (vote early, vote often).

At what point to the Magic brass give up on him?

[drsd]

Anthony Black is better defensively than KCP and was already on the roster. So who cares.

I kind of want the Magic to test a Suggs / Black starting core with Caldwell-Pope and Anthony as the backup guards.

Something must give.

There is no way Caldwell-Pope is happy with Caldwell-Pope. None.

[JoshuaPotter]

You can add “reaching for Jett Howard” to that list also. All extremely poor decisions.

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

[KillMonger]

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

This is how i feel really....Jett isn't being given a chance to play through mistakes....and i think we all know that Jett is a volume shooter.....but getting pulled after a mistake or missing a shot isn't helping a player who's essentially in his rookie season....Can't expect Jett to be able to just be super efficient after not playing for so long and having no rhythm, i think a Veteran can do that but i don't expect a 2nd year player to be that poised....So he's pretty much playing in spurts, very short spurts and still has more made 3's than everybody not named Suggs and Wagner....

[VFX]

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

This is why for as bad as he has looked, that people were not ok with signing KCP and re-signing Gary. It meant less minutes to go around for Jett and AB unless Cole became totally unplayable (which he did).

Jett hasn't looked good in the minutes he has played. Gradey Dick went from from starting 17/60 games at 20mpg to every single game playing 33mpg. Unfortunately for Jett he isn't good defensively, and Orlando isn't tanking, so he doesn't have free reign to make the same mistakes.

This is the entire issue with the FO taking "both paths" and not prioritizing development over vet play. So now AB looks very good and is getting development, but now that means Cole Anthony has significantly decreased in trade value given his contract. KCP is the second highest paid player on this roster and cant buy a basket. Isaac is technically the highest paid player and averages 16 mpg this season even without Paolo. Orlando is where players come to get paid for lesser results, with lesser expectations, because the fan base will make exceptions for them at every turn. Look no further than Fultz or Elfrid.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I @you a few pages back VFX. I don't think a single playmaker from your trade ideas wins us this one, but at least on paper I can say that we needed someone as KCP / Suggs / Harris are struggling to make the 3-ball.

Btw, I am putting Suggs on my list, only because he is struggling. I think 100% once Paolo comes back 3s from him will fall as he feeds off Paolo and Franz super well.

KCP and Harris though. Wow. Just.....wow.

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

writing was on the wall the second we brought back Gary even though it made 0 sense.

[JoshuaPotter]

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

This is how i feel really....Jett isn't being given a chance to play through mistakes....and i think we all know that Jett is a volume shooter.....but getting pulled after a mistake or missing a shot isn't helping a player who's essentially in his rookie season....Can't expect Jett to be able to just be super efficient after not playing for so long and having no rhythm, i think a Veteran can do that but i don't expect a 2nd year player to be that poised....So he's pretty much playing in spurts, very short spurts and still has more made 3's than everybody not named Suggs and Wagner....

Let's call it what it is. Mose called Jetts number looking for answers and Jett simply was not the answer. At first, you could argue, "hey he is supposed to be a specialist and he was poo poo beyond the arc last night." Yeah, that is true. He is a specialist, and he was poo-poo. But to lay him on the alter and say its him? Um....

I avoided talking about attempts and %, because I think admittedly its still a small sample size by the time you get to Jett. But here we go...

KCP 70 attempts on 22.9%
Jett 45 attempts on 37.8%
Harris 37 attempts on 32.4%

KCP + Harris are specialists and Jett is supposed to be in there mold. Not the other way around. When you look at the numbers this way, there is an argument that Harris should shoot more to bring his average up, and KCP needs to watch his shot selection to bring it up.

But either way. This is horrific levels of shooting from supposed 3&D specialists.

For contrast, Suggs who is our volume specialist playing no2 scoring option is 108 attempts on a 30.6%. But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he is most certainly NOT the reason we are losing games while Paolo is out and he will feast when Paolo returns.

[Ducklett]

Thing about Suggs comparatively is that he makes huge game shifting plays defensively. KCP is just a solid individual defender at this point.

If Harris, Jett, and KCP cannot shoot the goddamn basketball they are literally worthless out there. It’s like reasons 1-4 they are on the court whatsoever. Anyone capable of creating their own shot at an average level is better 100% at this point.

Ready for scary thoughts with Joshua?

Jett has averaged more 3PM per game then KCP and Harris.

Still sitting down?

Jett Howard has made more total 3's total then KCP and Harris. Harris has 93 minutes more played then Jett. KCP has 345 more minutes played then Jett.

Black is 3 makes behind KCP and 1 ahead of Harris, who are supposed to be specialists with the 3-ball.

I can't make this any more clear then I am. If anything, lack of patience with Jett might be your issue. These numbers are legit eye popping when you consider minutes played.

"But what about garbage time".

I'm sorry, but garbage time shouldn't make up for 345 more minutes played.

I still think the KCP experiment is a potential good one. However, the long term on this being a good idea is starting to not look so good unless somehow KCP averages 100% from all-star break on i'm stumped.

Honestly I thought it wouldn't look this bad, but it really does. I thought Halloween was last month.

This is how i feel really....Jett isn't being given a chance to play through mistakes....and i think we all know that Jett is a volume shooter.....but getting pulled after a mistake or missing a shot isn't helping a player who's essentially in his rookie season....Can't expect Jett to be able to just be super efficient after not playing for so long and having no rhythm, i think a Veteran can do that but i don't expect a 2nd year player to be that poised....So he's pretty much playing in spurts, very short spurts and still has more made 3's than everybody not named Suggs and Wagner....

One of those states math dudes on Twitter said that jett would have to shoot like 52% from 3 to make up for how bad he is on defense. Seems unlikely. He needs to fix his defense before coach mose throws him out there.