PG: Knicks vs Suns- 11/21/24

[NoDopeOnSundays]

[GettinitDone]

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Kat & Jalen Folkssssssssss KATTTTT & JALENNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The offense is unreal around these 2... approaching Shaq & Kobe unstoppable levels + the passing of the early 2000s Sac Kings, let's lead the L in assists

[SelbyCobra]

Happy that the talent is shining through, but haven't changed me feelings on Thibs one bit, either. Everything I was concerned about is still concerning to me.

It's kind of wild to be a Thibs team with a super efficient offense (2nd in offensive rating) but a terrible defense (21st in defensive rating)

The dead last pace kinda shows it though lol

Thibs is like Randle was gonna be this year to me. I kinda don't really care about what he shows in the regular season, it's all about playoffs.

The 2nd ranked offense is definitely eye-catching and makes my eyebrows raise initially, but after a moment to think it's not that crazy to me. Even with Thibs at the helm, it's Jalen Brunson & Karl-Anthony Towns taking majority of offensive focus, with a bunch of guys who are lethal taking corner threes. It'd be crazy if Thibs - even with his glaring lack of offensive modernity - was actually able to suppress that. I've said it a million times both before and after the trade, but KAT is one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the history of NBA basketball. Just looking at their career production, pairing him with a pretty efficient high-volume PG and other efficient players should lead to this kind of production if it isn't completely botched. But it's still jarring to see as Knicks fans, because we are decidedly not used to this level of excellence.

I actually kind of disagree with you and Cap about the playoffs being the measuring stick, though I do completely agree with comping Thibs to Randle. For me, Thibs and Randle are similar because they can raise the floor of a team by providing great production in specific areas. They can function as a pseudo star producer/coach at times, but when asked to grow their style or fit it to a different system, they've not shown to be as adaptable. I appreciated Julius for being an All-Star and All-NBA guy in a Knicks uniform based on his emotional/productive peaks and counting stats, and I also didn't have faith in him being a consistent, reliable producer because, well, he's shown over the years that things can and will go very south at times.

Thibs is the same way to me. He is what he is. A night in PHX where the offense shoots nearly 100% from the field over the first few minutes of the 1st Q, and finishes basically 60/50/90 as a team for the game, doesn't tell me much of anything about Thibs - it's just a red-hot night for an elite-talent roster. If he's continuously running out shortened rotations with viable bodies on the bench, vital players logging nearly 40 minutes in blowout wins, starters playing the closing seconds up double digits, cold shooting nights where there is clearly no offensive system to fall back on, 4th quarters where the most important players are gassed, and generally not adapting his schemes to the modern NBA - offensively OR defensively, I'm not willing to give him the chance to get hot or get lucky in the playoffs if given the choice - I already don't believe in who he is and what he does as a coach at a championship-expectation level.

It's like my opinion of Randle - he's a very good player, an all-star, and can make a big impact at times. But he also has established negative traits and production that he shows no indication of being able to move past, and hoping those qualities don't rear their head in the biggest moments is not a sound strategy for me. The Knicks could have won a championship with Randle, just as they can win one with Thibs, but the reliance on them being on them not lapsing into one of their periodically expected poor or exploitable effort/ideology is bad business to me.

[HEZI]

I’ve never seen a Thibs team underachieve. He usually gets the best out of his team and sometimes they even overachieve but I don’t remember his teams underachieving.

For a guy who was said to be holding us back because we didn’t come out the gate firing on all cylinders he sure has us speeding down the interstate right now. Props to Thibs man, he’s part of this culture he’s helped build this he deserves credit. We aren’t where we are now without him.

I would agree with this simply because the attention to detail and the way he treats every game as a must win.

Now I have my concerns about regular season rotations (got to make it to the playoffs healthy) and his in game adjustments (especially in playoffs).

But I don't worry about the team underachieving. I think DOT mentioned it his ultimate success will be determined on where he gets this team in the playoffs.

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

[mpharris36]

I’ve never seen a Thibs team underachieve. He usually gets the best out of his team and sometimes they even overachieve but I don’t remember his teams underachieving.

For a guy who was said to be holding us back because we didn’t come out the gate firing on all cylinders he sure has us speeding down the interstate right now. Props to Thibs man, he’s part of this culture he’s helped build this he deserves credit. We aren’t where we are now without him.

I would agree with this simply because the attention to detail and the way he treats every game as a must win.

Now I have my concerns about regular season rotations (got to make it to the playoffs healthy) and his in game adjustments (especially in playoffs).

But I don't worry about the team underachieving. I think DOT mentioned it his ultimate success will be determined on where he gets this team in the playoffs.

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

[gavran]

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Josh Hart and the Sexual Chocolate.

[sol537]

I would agree with this simply because the attention to detail and the way he treats every game as a must win.

Now I have my concerns about regular season rotations (got to make it to the playoffs healthy) and his in game adjustments (especially in playoffs).

But I don't worry about the team underachieving. I think DOT mentioned it his ultimate success will be determined on where he gets this team in the playoffs.

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

I project BOS will get #1, CLE will get #2 and we'll get #3 so we'll have to get through CLE to face BOS in the ECF. If we go 6 or 7 games in the ECF, then Thibs is probably safe for next season. Anything less will probably result in a coaching change.

[mpharris36]

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

I project BOS will get #1, CLE will get #2 and we'll get #3 so we'll have to get through CLE to face BOS in the ECF. If we go 6 or 7 games in the ECF, then Thibs is probably safe for next season. Anything less will probably result in a coaching change.

Correct I'm guessing we finish the #3 seed and CLE is #2 which I am more than fine with.

[HEZI]

I would agree with this simply because the attention to detail and the way he treats every game as a must win.

Now I have my concerns about regular season rotations (got to make it to the playoffs healthy) and his in game adjustments (especially in playoffs).

But I don't worry about the team underachieving. I think DOT mentioned it his ultimate success will be determined on where he gets this team in the playoffs.

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

It’s still way too early in the year to know who will or won’t be a good matchup. Just like with us some teams will either be gaining or losing steam by then so it’s possible that we aren’t seeing the best versions of some of these teams. At the moment I do feel confident with most matchups but things can change, trades can happen, teams can develop something throughout the year and really kick things into gear by the postseason. But I think home court advantage definitely does matter and this Knicks team is still pretty new for it not to matter.

Injuries are part of the game, you can’t avoid them unless you just don’t play the guys at all. There will be times throughout the year where our main guys will get rest, having depth does help so they might make a change or two to help with that. They should

[sol537]

Happy that the talent is shining through, but haven't changed me feelings on Thibs one bit, either. Everything I was concerned about is still concerning to me.

It's kind of wild to be a Thibs team with a super efficient offense (2nd in offensive rating) but a terrible defense (21st in defensive rating)

The dead last pace kinda shows it though lol

Thibs is like Randle was gonna be this year to me. I kinda don't really care about what he shows in the regular season, it's all about playoffs.

The 2nd ranked offense is definitely eye-catching and makes my eyebrows raise initially, but after a moment to think it's not that crazy to me. Even with Thibs at the helm, it's Jalen Brunson & Karl-Anthony Towns taking majority of offensive focus, with a bunch of guys who are lethal taking corner threes - it'd be crazy if Thibs - even with his glaring lack of offensive modernity - was actually able to suppress that. I've said it a million times both before and after the trade, but KAT is one of the most efficient high volume scorers in the history of NBA basketball. Just looking at their career production, pairing him with a pretty efficient high-volume PG and other efficient players should lead to this kind of production if it isn't completely botched. But it's still jarring to see as Knicks fans, because we are decidedly not used to this level of excellence.

I actually kind of disagree with you and Cap about the playoffs being the measuring stick, though I do completely agree with comping Thibs to Randle. For me, Thibs and Randle are similar because they can raise the floor of a team by providing great production in specific areas. They can function as a pseudo star producer/coach at times, but when asked to grow their style or fit it to a different system, they've not shown to be as adaptable. I appreciated Julius for being an All-Star and All-NBA guy in a Knicks uniform based on his emotional/productive peaks and counting stats, and I also didn't have faith in him being a consistent, reliable producer because, well, he's shown over the years that things can and will go very south at times.

Thibs is the same way to me. He is what he is. A night in PHX where the offense shoots nearly 100% from the field over the first few minutes of the 1st Q, and finishes basically 60/50/90 as a team for the game, doesn't tell me much of anything about Thibs - it's just a red-hot night for an elite-talent roster. If he's continuously running out shortened rotations with viable bodies on the bench, vital players logging nearly 40 minutes in blowout wins, starters playing the closing seconds up double digits, cold shooting nights where there is clearly no offensive system to fall back on, 4th quarters where the most important players are gassed, and generally not adapting his schemes to the modern NBA - offensively OR defensively, I'm not willing to give him the chance to get hot or get lucky in the playoffs if given the choice - I already don't believe in who he is and what he does as a coach at a championship-expectation level.

It's like my opinion of Randle - he's a very good player, an all-star, and can make a big impact at times. But he also has established negative traits and production that he shows no indication of being able to move past, and hoping those qualities don't rear their head in the biggest moments is not a sound strategy for me. The Knicks could have won a championship with Randle, just as they can win one with Thibs, but the reliance on them being on them not lapsing into one of their periodically expected poor or exploitable effort/ideology is bad business to me.

Well said, but as a Knicks homer I'm hopeful that Thibs will adapt somewhat (he's shown some adaptability over the years) and that we'll be fully healthy and in sync as a team and hopefully we could be on the receiving end of some of that health "luck" teams like DEN, MIL, and BOS got in recent playoffs over their opponents.

[Calinks]

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Basically what I have been saying for months lol....so much PR spin is angled to control public perception ....
Saying you let him go for financial reasons usually doesn't go so well with the fanbase. Thats why you don't hear it said much in the mainstream media.

Of course. When we made the Gobert trade, the second apron didn't exist. It became a thing right after and we were screwed. Towns had more trade value and the team also likely felt it would be easier to build going forward with Gobert with the personnel we had but the plan was to build a two tower squad featuring Ant and it was great last season. The next step for us was unlocking Towns offense at the 4, like I said before, he was operating at like 70 percent of his normal self on offense, still good enough for roughly 20 PPG but that wasn't the real KAT, you guys are seeing the real KAT right now.

[KnixinSix]

I think in order to give yourself the best chance to have success in the playoffs you do have to position yourself towards the higher seed so Thibs will do that and then still catch heat for it. Yes he’s trying to win every game because every game does matter when it comes to playoff seeding and your ultimate success could very much come down to your seeding and the matchups you get throughout the playoffs. Thibs has the experience he’s been here before many times he’s aware of that and that’s what he aims for every year.

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

I project BOS will get #1, CLE will get #2 and we'll get #3 so we'll have to get through CLE to face BOS in the ECF. If we go 6 or 7 games in the ECF, then Thibs is probably safe for next season. Anything less will probably result in a coaching change.

When the Chemistry fully solidifies we can beat either of those teams. But we will need a healthy Mitch probably to pull it off

[mpharris36]

For this team seeding isn't as important as being healthy IMO. We want to be playing our best brand of basketball at the end of the year certainly.

As long as you avoid BOS in round 1...we will probably have to go through them regardless.

I think if we are the #2 or #3 seed i would have no issues say going into CLE in the 2nd round on without HCA.

It's all about health and I will have confidence we can beat nearly everyone.

I project BOS will get #1, CLE will get #2 and we'll get #3 so we'll have to get through CLE to face BOS in the ECF. If we go 6 or 7 games in the ECF, then Thibs is probably safe for next season. Anything less will probably result in a coaching change.

When the Chemistry fully solidifies we can beat either of those teams. But we will need a healthy Mitch probably to pull it off

I don't see Mitch having any value in beating BOS...with them playing 5 out.

Precious would have more impact vs BOS.

Mitch would certainly have an impact on a potential CLE series though. He made Allen his b*tch last series we faced them.

[Tomato Sauce]

Sims still a bum, but has been playing better the last few games. Appreciate his hustle and his defense has been decent.

[sol537]

Minny has a path to be a contender again... but probably have to shed Randle... they need a 3&D power forward badly. Then they can move Ant to the SF spot so they could start DDV and hope he recaptures his glory from last season. Lastly, they need to bring in a 3&D PG like a young Conley. Gobert, 3&D PF, Ant, DDV, and 3&D PG would be a really sweet team with Reid and even NAW off the bench. Maybe they find those guys in the draft or in a trade... their current roster make-up isn't going all the way.

[3toheadmelo]

Very thankful we still have Thibs as our coach and we didn’t fire him like a lot of people want to do. Thanks Leon!

[KnixinSix]

I project BOS will get #1, CLE will get #2 and we'll get #3 so we'll have to get through CLE to face BOS in the ECF. If we go 6 or 7 games in the ECF, then Thibs is probably safe for next season. Anything less will probably result in a coaching change.

When the Chemistry fully solidifies we can beat either of those teams. But we will need a healthy Mitch probably to pull it off

I don't see Mitch having any value in beating BOS...with them playing 5 out.

Precious would have more impact vs BOS.

Mitch would certainly have an impact on a potential CLE series though. He made Allen his b*tch last series we faced them.

Precious is that 'Tweener rim protector yeah he might have more value vs Bos.

Either way we need them both back and healthy

[KnixinSix]

Sims still a bum, but has been playing better the last few games. Appreciate his hustle and his defense has been decent.

Mitch and/or Precious will be a big step up there.

[Capn'O]

I actually kind of disagree with you and Cap about the playoffs being the measuring stick...

My stance is mostly what I expect to happen. Management won't do anything with Thibs this season but if he underperforms in the playoffs they might move on. I would have moved on from Thibs this summer if we knew we were likely getting KAT, which we almost certainly did.

I haven't entirely ruled out that he can make a champion from this group and we may differ there.

[knicks94]

Thank goodness championships aren't won after 11 games.