Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V1.0

[Dalek]

I was so crushed Knecht didn't fall to us. Really an outlier shooter with some muscle to his game.

During the draft cycle I said he could be ROY if he played with Toronto because he just needs an opportunity. Amazing that he found it in LA with two superstars.

Still my ROY pick.

Yeah as he was falling I was like "oh ****, this could be a massive value add. Knecht and Dick with Scottie would be awesome".

He's having a decent rook season so far, no doubt. He also turns 24 in April, compared to Walter who just turned 20 a few months ago (September). Lakers really needed a win/play-now type player and (so far) looks like they got their guy. Hopefully the same applies to the Raptors.

I just think Knecht like Edey were outliers in college. They were older, but both operating at an elite level and showing elite size and strength for their position. Walter currently is so skinny (seems to be a factor in his injuries). He has some scoring potential, but he is likely years away from a physical sense. Knecht was a guy who could help any team now because so much was demanded of him in college and he faced every kind of defense.

Knecht and McCain were just NBA ready guys to me and we just fell short on draft night. I was also convinced Tyler Kolek and Jaylon Tyson could have helped us but we hope to have some diamonds in time with the draft class we picked.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

[ItsDanger]

I still view Yak in this way when it came to the trade.

Lively went #12 in a draft viewed as good and deep. But he also in essence went #10 where Dallas picked with that trade.

So a non shooting C went top 10ish in a good draft and like most picks, still had the unknown of how he he would do. But regardless...top10-12.

So where would he go in a bad draft the following year? Well logic says inside the top 10.

So we added Yak for what ended up #8 in a draft where Lively likely goes around the same spot.

Difference is we KNEW Yak wasn't ever going to bust, was already in his prime, and has much more to his game with his passing.

Like it or not, Yak was worth that high a pick in a poor draft. Of course the issue should always be that given where we were in the standings, it's a move that didn't make sense given the chance to land Wemby.

But hey, we did it and added a good starting C and drafted Dick who is been great this year.

Worth it for his current play? What is the objective here? Should be a legitimate threat in the playoffs, a top 4 seed. That isn't what this team is currently, so was it worth it really?

Sell high. And stay focused on the real goal here.

[Tall Brown]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

Embiid's time in Phila is likely numbered now.

[Lord_Zedd]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

Saw somewhere that 76er fans discovered Nick Nurse to be the leaker. All because of the term "elephant in the room" being used not only in their last meeting, but in Raptor team meeting as well, and Danny Green referencing Nurse having an elephant on his desk.

And yep, Maxey is also Klutch with Nurse

[mtcan]

Philly needs to start winning games. We don't need more lottery competition.

Agreed. As much as I like watching Embiid fail over and over again, we don't want them to get a top pick. Especially when they just drafted what is looking like the best player of the '24 class.

EDIT - Never mind, all tracking sites are showing they don't have their 25 pick.

I think their 2025 first round pick is top 6 protected.

[Thaddy]

Jalen Williams is better than Barnes. there really should be no argument the last 2 seasons imo. He is a better ball handler/slasher/shooter and defender. The only thing Barnes does better is passing.

Jalen is contesting same volume of shots at rim as Jarett Allen and has a 3% stl and blk%. Barnes has never played defense like this in any 10 game stretch.

Using this season at all isn't fair to Barnes. He came back rusty played 4 games and got an eye injury. In terms of help and team defense Barnes has the better tools and projects to be better. Williams play with SGA, Chet, and a few other guys who are better than anyone the Raptors have on their roster. Toronto's had a harder schedule this season too and that also matters.

I am also using last season when both were healthy, there is no argument for Scottie outside the fact that Jdub plays with Shai (so people are apprehensive to give Jalen is due credit). Scottie would not be as effective on OKC though. He is never going to be the self creator or shooter that Jdub is and now that Jdub is just as good at defense, what is the case for him? I am taking roster makeup into account but the one area Barnes should clearly dominate these guys at (defense) he hasn't. Its not even a roster thing cause we should still be able to his impact on defense looking under the hood even on a bad team. there is not much there for Barnes like previous defensive beasts on bad teams Ak47/KG for example.


22/5/5 and 3 stocks a game on 60% TS and 7.5 BPM just of raw box numbers for Jalen. he is top 15 on most impact metrics. I don't think Jdub will continue playing defense like this but if he does he getting all defense and all nba, quite easily too.


I held this opinion last season too, if Barnes does not become the defender that he was projected to be he just will never be a top 20 player in the league. This is because is offense will never be as valuable due to his meh shot creation and pull up shooting.

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

[mtcan]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

Maxey, Nurse and Shams are all Klutch. Makes total sense now.

As mentioned the Sixers' 2025 FRP is top 6 protected. I would hate to see them keep all their existing pieces, tank then end up with the #1 pick.

However......Daryl Morey doesn't tank. He left Houston just as they were about to trade Harden. He is the type to make trades to win...so hopefully he still feels this way.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

Saw somewhere that 76er fans discovered Nick Nurse to be the leaker. All because of the term "elephant in the room" being used not only in their last meeting, but in Raptor team meeting as well, and Danny Green referencing Nurse having an elephant on his desk.

And yep, Maxey is also Klutch with Nurse

It was also Shams that broke the story about Siakam's outburst directed at Nurse, so the dots are definitely connecting. At the time, Raptors management was also pre-occupied about how the story got out. The dots are definitely connecting.

[Dalek]

Scottie Barnes will have some work to do to recover his standing in the 2021 draft class and as a franchise cornerstone. When he comes back he has to assert himself as the top scoring option and help this team win, because the other primary options are showing themselves as guys you build around who are contributing to winning.

Franz Wagner in his last seven games (without Banchero):
28 pts, 8 reb, 6 ast
27 pts, 5 reb, 6 ast
23 pts, 4 reb, 7 ast
32 pts, 8 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl
29 pts, 3 reb, 6 ast
31 pts, 11 reb, 6 ast
32 pts, 5 reb, 8 ast
Team record now 9-7 winning 6 of 7 games.

Cade Cunningham averages 23.3 pts, 7.3 reb, 8.84 ast (team record 7-9). He’s one of three players in the league averaging 23+ points, 8+ assists, and 7+ rebounds - the others are Nikola Jokić and LeBron James.

Alperen Şengün leads the NBA with 12 double-doubles this season (team record is 11-5).

Even Jalen Johnson has taken a step forward and averages 19 pts, 10 reb, 5 ast (team 7-9).

It is still early, but if Scottie is back, and because he has been out a while you have to give him a moment to get his wind, but this team should be winning when he is on court.

[Scizzup]

Using this season at all isn't fair to Barnes. He came back rusty played 4 games and got an eye injury. In terms of help and team defense Barnes has the better tools and projects to be better. Williams play with SGA, Chet, and a few other guys who are better than anyone the Raptors have on their roster. Toronto's had a harder schedule this season too and that also matters.

I am also using last season when both were healthy, there is no argument for Scottie outside the fact that Jdub plays with Shai (so people are apprehensive to give Jalen is due credit). Scottie would not be as effective on OKC though. He is never going to be the self creator or shooter that Jdub is and now that Jdub is just as good at defense, what is the case for him? I am taking roster makeup into account but the one area Barnes should clearly dominate these guys at (defense) he hasn't. Its not even a roster thing cause we should still be able to his impact on defense looking under the hood even on a bad team. there is not much there for Barnes like previous defensive beasts on bad teams Ak47/KG for example.


22/5/5 and 3 stocks a game on 60% TS and 7.5 BPM just of raw box numbers for Jalen. he is top 15 on most impact metrics. I don't think Jdub will continue playing defense like this but if he does he getting all defense and all nba, quite easily too.


I held this opinion last season too, if Barnes does not become the defender that he was projected to be he just will never be a top 20 player in the league. This is because is offense will never be as valuable due to his meh shot creation and pull up shooting.

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been much better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

[Thaddy]

I am also using last season when both were healthy, there is no argument for Scottie outside the fact that Jdub plays with Shai (so people are apprehensive to give Jalen is due credit). Scottie would not be as effective on OKC though. He is never going to be the self creator or shooter that Jdub is and now that Jdub is just as good at defense, what is the case for him? I am taking roster makeup into account but the one area Barnes should clearly dominate these guys at (defense) he hasn't. Its not even a roster thing cause we should still be able to his impact on defense looking under the hood even on a bad team. there is not much there for Barnes like previous defensive beasts on bad teams Ak47/KG for example.


22/5/5 and 3 stocks a game on 60% TS and 7.5 BPM just of raw box numbers for Jalen. he is top 15 on most impact metrics. I don't think Jdub will continue playing defense like this but if he does he getting all defense and all nba, quite easily too.


I held this opinion last season too, if Barnes does not become the defender that he was projected to be he just will never be a top 20 player in the league. This is because is offense will never be as valuable due to his meh shot creation and pull up shooting.

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

[AbC?]

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

In almost every metric available and the eye test, Jalen Williams is a better basketball player than Scottie Barnes.

Cleaning the glass is now a paid subscription but his numbers stay the same or improve in minutes without Shai and so do his stats in the 14 games he's played without Shai so far in his career.

It's a hard pill to swallow with JDub being arguably OKC's 3rd best player and Scottie being the "face" of our franchise, but Jalen's just better.

[Scizzup]

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

There is only value to being a number 1 if you are good at it and Scottie is bad at it, currently. RJ is not even good and we have a better offense with him doing his version of "siakam" because of his threat to score. Same role Scottie looked bad in before his injury. Oh, Jdub is much much better than RJ so...


Yes, Jdub would have a harder time if he is keyed in more but he is not suddenly going to turn into a bad scorer. People do the same thing with Franz but since Paolo got hurt he is putting up 27/6/6 with plus defense on 58% TS on a mid offense roster. is that a number 1 option? I watched 2 of his games last week and he was getting doubled like any primary creator. Its not even like Scottie is being defended like a true number 1. He is getting same treatment as Pascal but worse at attacking it.



But you still haven't say what Barnes does better than Jdub on offense except conjecture or buzzwords fans says who don't really understand basketball.

[Thaddy]

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

In almost every metric available and the eye test, Jalen Williams is a better basketball player than Scottie Barnes.

Cleaning the glass is now a paid subscription but his numbers stay the same or improve in minutes without Shai and so do his stats in the 14 games he's played without Shai so far in his career.

It's a hard pill to swallow with JDub being arguably OKC's 3rd best player and Scottie being the "face" of our franchise, but Jalen's just better.

14 games isn't enough to go off of. The Raptors were good without Kawhi but it doesn't mean they don't need him for the championship.

Barnes had better OBPM and DBPM than JWill last season. That isn't every metric. STL% and BLK% was either the same or better.

If you go by JWill's hot streak and discount that Scottie came back from injury to get another injury. Lol, sure he's better then?

[PushDaRock]

Using this season at all isn't fair to Barnes. He came back rusty played 4 games and got an eye injury. In terms of help and team defense Barnes has the better tools and projects to be better. Williams play with SGA, Chet, and a few other guys who are better than anyone the Raptors have on their roster. Toronto's had a harder schedule this season too and that also matters.

I am also using last season when both were healthy, there is no argument for Scottie outside the fact that Jdub plays with Shai (so people are apprehensive to give Jalen is due credit). Scottie would not be as effective on OKC though. He is never going to be the self creator or shooter that Jdub is and now that Jdub is just as good at defense, what is the case for him? I am taking roster makeup into account but the one area Barnes should clearly dominate these guys at (defense) he hasn't. Its not even a roster thing cause we should still be able to his impact on defense looking under the hood even on a bad team. there is not much there for Barnes like previous defensive beasts on bad teams Ak47/KG for example.


22/5/5 and 3 stocks a game on 60% TS and 7.5 BPM just of raw box numbers for Jalen. he is top 15 on most impact metrics. I don't think Jdub will continue playing defense like this but if he does he getting all defense and all nba, quite easily too.


I held this opinion last season too, if Barnes does not become the defender that he was projected to be he just will never be a top 20 player in the league. This is because is offense will never be as valuable due to his meh shot creation and pull up shooting.

Barnes wasn't healthy last season. They also had the biggest roster turnover in NBA history. Williams is on a hot streak that will end soon and playing with Chet and Dort does help him on defense. It lets him take more gambles than someone who doesn't play with players of that caliber.

What makes you think he is just on a hot streak? What is he doing that seems unsustainable?

[PushDaRock]

Jalen Williams contests more shots at the rim this year than Barnes has ever done, he is much quicker on the perimeter and can actually guard 2-4. Jalen has actually been better on defense since Chet got injured because they are playing him at center. Yea, he has good defenders around him but he is clearly great on defense even with just eye test.


So far you been saying things even a lot of things without actually refuting a point. Scottie played 60 games last year, and played 30 games with Pascal and OG still on the team btw.

Let me say they are same level on defense. Lets just talk OFFENSE. Jalen is more explosive of dribble, better hip mobility, better shooter and ball handler and a better finisher at the rim factoring rim creation. Neither player gets to the line much.

What do you think Barnes does better on offense outside passing?

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

There is only value to being a number 1 if you are good at it and Scottie is bad at it, currently. RJ is not even good and we have a better offense with him doing his version of "siakam" because of his threat to score. Same role Scottie looked bad in before his injury. Oh, Jdub is much much better than RJ so...


Yes, Jdub would have a harder time if he is keyed in more but he is not suddenly going to turn into a bad scorer. People do the same thing with Franz but since Paolo got hurt he is putting up 27/6/6 with plus defense on 58% TS on a mid offense roster. is that a number 1 option? I watched 2 of his games last week and he was getting doubled like any primary creator. Its not even like Scottie is being defended like a true number 1. He is getting same treatment as Pascal but worse at attacking it.



But you still haven't say what Barnes does better than Jdub on offense except conjecture or buzzwords fans says who don't really understand basketball.

I don't know if Williams ends up being a #1 option on a contender but I don't know how you don't take him over Barnes as a #1 option currently. He's a way better 3 level scorer and it's not even close right now. He's already at 61% TS career without getting to the line much. If he starts getting there more, he's probably just barely a tier under superstar level.

[Mattatron]

Scottie Barnes will have some work to do to recover his standing in the 2021 draft class and as a franchise cornerstone. When he comes back he has to assert himself as the top scoring option and help this team win, because the other primary options are showing themselves as guys you build around who are contributing to winning.

Franz Wagner in his last seven games (without Banchero):
28 pts, 8 reb, 6 ast
27 pts, 5 reb, 6 ast
23 pts, 4 reb, 7 ast
32 pts, 8 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl
29 pts, 3 reb, 6 ast
31 pts, 11 reb, 6 ast
32 pts, 5 reb, 8 ast
Team record now 9-7 winning 6 of 7 games.

Cade Cunningham averages 23.3 pts, 7.3 reb, 8.84 ast (team record 7-9). He’s one of three players in the league averaging 23+ points, 8+ assists, and 7+ rebounds - the others are Nikola Jokić and LeBron James.

Alperen Şengün leads the NBA with 12 double-doubles this season (team record is 11-5).

Even Jalen Johnson has taken a step forward and averages 19 pts, 10 reb, 5 ast (team 7-9).

It is still early, but if Scottie is back, and because he has been out a while you have to give him a moment to get his wind, but this team should be winning when he is on court.

"When he comes back he has to assert himself as the top scoring option and help this team win" No. Don't force him into a role he's not suited for, just because u want him to be the clear #1 of his rookie class. What is this dick size challenge? And no we don't have to win, or forcing to squeeze out a win.
The Magic, Rockets, and yes the Pistons too, are currently way ahead in their process, we just started to rebuild properly with nearly zero assets.

[Scizzup]

If Jalen is such a great rim protector why don't they play most of his minutes there? It's a small sample size.

Barnes is a focal point on offense. He plays the number 1 option role better than Williams. If Williams was the first option with bad alternative options on his team his numbers would look worse.

30 games?! JWill has played with the same core teammates for several season. Barnes played with 30 different guys last year, as a playmaker that makes things harder.

There is only value to being a number 1 if you are good at it and Scottie is bad at it, currently. RJ is not even good and we have a better offense with him doing his version of "siakam" because of his threat to score. Same role Scottie looked bad in before his injury. Oh, Jdub is much much better than RJ so...


Yes, Jdub would have a harder time if he is keyed in more but he is not suddenly going to turn into a bad scorer. People do the same thing with Franz but since Paolo got hurt he is putting up 27/6/6 with plus defense on 58% TS on a mid offense roster. is that a number 1 option? I watched 2 of his games last week and he was getting doubled like any primary creator. Its not even like Scottie is being defended like a true number 1. He is getting same treatment as Pascal but worse at attacking it.



But you still haven't say what Barnes does better than Jdub on offense except conjecture or buzzwords fans says who don't really understand basketball.

I don't know if Williams ends up being a #1 option on a contender but I don't know how you don't take him over Barnes as a #1 option currently. He's a way better 3 level scorer and it's not even close right now. He's already at 61% TS career without getting to the line much. If he starts getting there more, he's probably just barely a tier under superstar level.

This is mostly my opinion. I don't think he is a Tier 1 level creator or offensive player either cause of his freethrows and he shys away when he sees box on defense. But this idea that he is only good cause of the team he plays on is weird to me.

I actually see him as a better Middleton which is all nba level, he is a better defender due to wingspan and more physicality on defense.

[shmoosicle]

Isn't Maxey Klutch? The leaker that threw Embiid under the bus and made Maxey look like the straight talker has to be Nick Nurse. I dunno, Morey is a slimeball, too.

Saw somewhere that 76er fans discovered Nick Nurse to be the leaker. All because of the term "elephant in the room" being used not only in their last meeting, but in Raptor team meeting as well, and Danny Green referencing Nurse having an elephant on his desk.

And yep, Maxey is also Klutch with Nurse

LOL Elephant on his desk, that sounds like some Usual Suspects nonsense.