Maxey calls out Embiid

[Ssj16]

Interesting that Biid and Ben Simmons are two of the most entitled and delusional players in the league

I have to say an obligatory "trust the process"

[Ssj16]

This guy just isn’t serious. Would hate for him to be the “star” on my team.

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Muscle memory - too many hours practicing flops.

[madmaxmedia]

Almost every player that has played with both and many that play now and that have seen Kobe on tv or live, thinks Kobe was way better. Mass media, stats nerds ( with manipulated stats) and obviously powerful Clutch, try to put down every single player that is good , in order to elevate Bron...

Yeah I'm not gonna buy almost every player who's seen both think Kobe is better without support. And the "manipulated stats" argument is hilarious, what unmanipulated stats support Kobe?

Also, players are famously terrible at judging talent. They overvalue Kobe's Heroball style and dismiss the inefficencies. They all love Allen Iverson and Melo too.

I think these are valid viewpoints if you consider their perspective, just not the end all be all of the discussion.

On the floor in the moment, playing with or against him, I'm not surprised Kobe absolutely leaps out to other players. It doesn't mean they think he has the highest VORP or adjusted eFG%, the best career consistency, longevity, etc. I don't think it's necessarily a matter of overvaluing hero ball either, more their assessment of raw talent on the floor.

In the big picture of course you have to take into account all the other things too.

[Ssj16]

Almost every player that has played with both and many that play now and that have seen Kobe on tv or live, thinks Kobe was way better. Mass media, stats nerds ( with manipulated stats) and obviously powerful Clutch, try to put down every single player that is good , in order to elevate Bron...

Yeah I'm not gonna buy almost every player who's seen both think Kobe is better without support. And the "manipulated stats" argument is hilarious, what unmanipulated stats support Kobe?

It's not about stats, it's about leadership, toughness, ferocity. Kobe was a feared player, Bron, not so much. In fact Kobe won more with less and in less time.

Kobe is my favourite player of all time but objectively, Lebron is in a slightly higher than Kobe for a myriad of reasons.

[madmaxmedia]

The writing is on the wall for Philly.

Philly is in primed position to go the OKC route and clear house and build around their younger stars.

Package Embiid for some picks.
Package Paul George for picks.

Build around McCain and Maxey
Hopefully draft Cooper Flagg to go along with the soon to be star backcourt.

I don't think they'll finish bad enough for Flagg, but they can tank and at least try to keep their 1st round pick (top 6 protected, otherwise goes to OKC.) Embiid is not trade eligible until late March (so offseason). And Paul George doesn't have positive trade value right now, who wants to touch that contract?

In general I do agree with you though...if they knew what they were going to get our of McCain (though it's still early), they might have passed on PG and focused on the long term. Right now they're stuck in the middle, if I were a Sixer fan I don't know what I'd be hoping for at this point for this season.

[HotelVitale]

The Sixers 1-hr team meeting was a nothing burger, according to PG, who was in the room. Like I was saying: somebody (prime suspect is Nurse) leaked 30 seconds of it to the NBA's top newsbreaker, to put a negative spotlight on Embiid.

Do you think it's an issue that Embiid is late to everything and doesn't take accountability for anything?

I think it's way more interesting and relevant to talking heads and sports radio types than it is a basketball issue. There are lots of good players who are late to things and don't always have spot-on team-first etiquette. I'm sure Embiid has been like that before in the past when the team was doing better too.

Embiid makes some poor decisions on the court and he's a pretty immature personality in general. That's why he's a long-term problem. Him showing upon time to things this season doesn't fix it, and honestly probably nothing really fixes it. If people want to use this meeting to keep beating that dead horse, cool I guess, but this is just typical stuff about a team struggling and trying to wake up everyone now, get everyone to dig deep and tighten everything up. Joel you gotta stop focusing on your injury and check yourself fully into this season, PG you gotta stop being so tentative and find your sea legs, etc.

Remember that the number one rule of sports talk is to make sports not about sports but about little everyday values everyone has and can argue about all day. Being a stand-up guy, leading with dignity, pursuing your goals, etc. Those often have some general overlap with actual sports things, but they're always going to be WAY more sweeping and broad than the more boring granular reasons for why a team did or didn't win a game or play well for a month or two. Not knocking that talk if it works for you but it's not meant to be actual sports analysis.

[KidPistol]

The writing is on the wall for Philly.

Philly is in primed position to go the OKC route and clear house and build around their younger stars.

Package Embiid for some picks.
Package Paul George for picks.

Build around McCain and Maxey
Hopefully draft Cooper Flagg to go along with the soon to be star backcourt.

I don't think they'll finish bad enough for Flagg, but they can tank and at least try to keep their 1st round pick (top 6 protected, otherwise goes to OKC.) Embiid is not trade eligible until late March (so offseason). And Paul George doesn't have positive trade value right now, who wants to touch that contract?

In general I do agree with you though...if they knew what they were going to get our of McCain (though it's still early), they might have passed on PG and focused on the long term. Right now they're stuck in the middle, if I were a Sixer fan I don't know what I'd be hoping for at this point for this season.

If I'm a Sixer fan, I'm just watching for the entertainment factor of McCain and probably hoping to tank enough to get a top 6 pick. While you're right that George might not have the trade value that he once did, there is a team out there that would probably take him as a final piece for a run to a championship. Think Spurs or Kings? Embiid will still have trade value, especially to a team who is that one dominant big away from a potential ring.

We'll see however. Luckily they could at least say that they have their 2 young stars primed to breakout next year.

[madmaxmedia]

The writing is on the wall for Philly.

Philly is in primed position to go the OKC route and clear house and build around their younger stars.

Package Embiid for some picks.
Package Paul George for picks.

Build around McCain and Maxey
Hopefully draft Cooper Flagg to go along with the soon to be star backcourt.

I don't think they'll finish bad enough for Flagg, but they can tank and at least try to keep their 1st round pick (top 6 protected, otherwise goes to OKC.) Embiid is not trade eligible until late March (so offseason). And Paul George doesn't have positive trade value right now, who wants to touch that contract?

In general I do agree with you though...if they knew what they were going to get our of McCain (though it's still early), they might have passed on PG and focused on the long term. Right now they're stuck in the middle, if I were a Sixer fan I don't know what I'd be hoping for at this point for this season.

If I'm a Sixer fan, I'm just watching for the entertainment factor of McCain and probably hoping to tank enough to get a top 6 pick. While you're right that George might not have the trade value that he once did, there is a team out there that would probably take him as a final piece for a run to a championship. Think Spurs or Kings? Embiid will still have trade value, especially to a team who is that one dominant big away from a potential ring.

We'll see however. Luckily they could at least say that they have their 2 young stars primed to breakout next year.

It's a shame they can't trade Embiid during this season, because that would kick off the rebuild and help with trying to keep that pick. I agree with your point about PG, he can still be seen as a contributor for a playoff team but the return could be dicey. I guess if the Sixers are rebuilding then they could take bad money back in order to maximize any draft assets in a trade.

[nikster]

The Sixers 1-hr team meeting was a nothing burger, according to PG, who was in the room. Like I was saying: somebody (prime suspect is Nurse) leaked 30 seconds of it to the NBA's top newsbreaker, to put a negative spotlight on Embiid.

Do you think it's an issue that Embiid is late to everything and doesn't take accountability for anything?

I think it's way more interesting and relevant to talking heads and sports radio types than it is a basketball issue. There are lots of good players who are late to things and don't always have spot-on team-first etiquette. I'm sure Embiid has been like that before in the past when the team was doing better too.

Embiid makes some poor decisions on the court and he's a pretty immature personality in general. That's why he's a long-term problem. Him showing upon time to things this season doesn't fix it, and honestly probably nothing really fixes it. If people want to use this meeting to keep beating that dead horse, cool I guess, but this is just typical stuff about a team struggling and trying to wake up everyone now, get everyone to dig deep and tighten everything up. Joel you gotta stop focusing on your injury and check yourself fully into this season, PG you gotta stop being so tentative and find your sea legs, etc.

Remember that the number one rule of sports talk is to make sports not about sports but about little everyday values everyone has and can argue about all day. Being a stand-up guy, leading with dignity, pursuing your goals, etc. Those often have some general overlap with actual sports things, but they're always going to be WAY more sweeping and broad than the more boring granular reasons for why a team did or didn't win a game or play well for a month or two. Not knocking that talk if it works for you but it's not meant to be actual sports analysis.

Yeah I don't think this in a vacuum is a big deal but it does speak to his maturity and professionalism

[BruttoNostra]

The writing is on the wall for Philly.

Philly is in primed position to go the OKC route and clear house and build around their younger stars.

Package Embiid for some picks.
Package Paul George for with picks.

Build around McCain and Maxey
Hopefully draft Cooper Flagg to go along with the soon to be star backcourt.

FTFY

[Ambrose]

The Sixers 1-hr team meeting was a nothing burger, according to PG, who was in the room. Like I was saying: somebody (prime suspect is Nurse) leaked 30 seconds of it to the NBA's top newsbreaker, to put a negative spotlight on Embiid.

Read on Twitter

Do you think it's an issue that Embiid is late to everything and doesn't take accountability for anything?

It's right up there with:

"Embiid leaves the toilet seat up"

"Embiid takes off his shoes on the team airplane and his feet stink"

"Embiid takes stole my lunch from the company fridge"

So you don't think routinely showing up to practice and team meetings late is an indictment against Embiid's leadership or work ethic? Or are you saying that we already knew he was lacking in both areas?

[Luke]

Almost every player that has played with both and many that play now and that have seen Kobe on tv or live, thinks Kobe was way better. Mass media, stats nerds ( with manipulated stats) and obviously powerful Clutch, try to put down every single player that is good , in order to elevate Bron...

Yeah I'm not gonna buy almost every player who's seen both think Kobe is better without support. And the "manipulated stats" argument is hilarious, what unmanipulated stats support Kobe?

Also, players are famously terrible at judging talent. They overvalue Kobe's Heroball style and dismiss the inefficencies. They all love Allen Iverson and Melo too.

Too many players AND COACHES think Kobe is underrated.

Why players are terrible at judging talent ? They are the one who have to defend him or to be guarded by him.

By the way, this heroball things and this inefficency thing are vastly overrated by the usual suspects : media and fanboys ( not you, that have made your honest opinion).

Kobe was able to sacrifice his game when it counted, while he liked to showboat some games for entertainment during the regular season. The most heroball he did it was once he had terrible teams to lead. He showed he was a great passer and playmaker when asked by the coaches. I have the numbers to support it, not only the " vibes"...
Bottom line Kobe was able to be the best heroball and the best team player when needed. Was he perfect ? Obviously not, but he was all about winning and he was one of the most unselfish guys ever, despite a manipulated bad narrative.

[tbhawksfan1]

Why are you guys derailing a perfectly good thread

[Johnny Bball]

There is precisely zero chance the sixers try to tank and will actually finish bottom 4 in the league. Barring devastating injuries. And I'm pretty sure nobody is cheering for that.

[Luke]

Yeah I'm not gonna buy almost every player who's seen both think Kobe is better without support. And the "manipulated stats" argument is hilarious, what unmanipulated stats support Kobe?

It's not about stats, it's about leadership, toughness, ferocity. Kobe was a feared player, Bron, not so much. In fact Kobe won more with less and in less time.

Kobe is my favourite player of all time but objectively, Lebron is in a slightly higher than Kobe for a myriad of reasons.

I respect your honest opinion, even if I have a ton of arguments to disagree; but at least you put things more fairly.
Kobe is my favourite along with Magic. Now Curry and Jokic are the players I like more, even if I'm a Laker fan.

Hopefully there will be time to discuss in a calme manner the reasons why I rate Lebron lower than many others, Magic and Kobe ( and Curry and Jokic) included...

Now back to Maxey and Embiid...

[nikster]

Yeah I'm not gonna buy almost every player who's seen both think Kobe is better without support. And the "manipulated stats" argument is hilarious, what unmanipulated stats support Kobe?

Also, players are famously terrible at judging talent. They overvalue Kobe's Heroball style and dismiss the inefficencies. They all love Allen Iverson and Melo too.

Too many players AND COACHES think Kobe is underrated.

Why players are terrible at judging talent ? They are the one who have to defend him or to be guarded by him.

By the way, this heroball things and this inefficency thing are vastly overrated by the usual suspects : media and fanboys ( not you, that have made your honest opinion).

Kobe was able to sacrifice his game when it counted, while he liked to showboat some games for entertainment during the regular season. The most heroball he did it was once he had terrible teams to lead. He showed he was a great passer and playmaker when asked by the coaches. I have the numbers to support it, not only the " vibes"...
Bottom line Kobe was able to be the best heroball and the best team player when needed. Was he perfect ? Obviously not, but he was all about winning and he was one of the most unselfish guys ever, despite a manipulated bad narrative.

2004 NBA finals? Chauncey said their strategy was to let Shaq get his and watch Kobe shoot them out of the game.
"We knew there was no way we could stop Shaq straight-up. But what’s going to happen is Mr. Bryant is going to get a little discouraged with getting no touches and now the second half comes around…now he’s pressing. He’s going to start coming down and just breaking the offense."
Kobe took 29 more shots and was -16TS% compared to Shaq, also had 22 assists to 18 turnovers.

[Luke]

The writing is on the wall for Philly.

Philly is in primed position to go the OKC route and clear house and build around their younger stars.

Package Embiid for some picks.
Package Paul George for picks.

Build around McCain and Maxey
Hopefully draft Cooper Flagg to go along with the soon to be star backcourt.

I don't think they'll finish bad enough for Flagg, but they can tank and at least try to keep their 1st round pick (top 6 protected, otherwise goes to OKC.) Embiid is not trade eligible until late March (so offseason). And Paul George doesn't have positive trade value right now, who wants to touch that contract?

In general I do agree with you though...if they knew what they were going to get our of McCain (though it's still early), they might have passed on PG and focused on the long term. Right now they're stuck in the middle, if I were a Sixer fan I don't know what I'd be hoping for at this point for this season.

If I'm a Sixer fan, I'm just watching for the entertainment factor of McCain and probably hoping to tank enough to get a top 6 pick. While you're right that George might not have the trade value that he once did, there is a team out there that would probably take him as a final piece for a run to a championship. Think Spurs or Kings? Embiid will still have trade value, especially to a team who is that one dominant big away from a potential ring.

We'll see however. Luckily they could at least say that they have their 2 young stars primed to breakout next year.

Warriors would probably take him : they wanted him this summer, and in their system he would be likely used in a different way.

[Luke]

Also, players are famously terrible at judging talent. They overvalue Kobe's Heroball style and dismiss the inefficencies. They all love Allen Iverson and Melo too.

Too many players AND COACHES think Kobe is underrated.

Why players are terrible at judging talent ? They are the one who have to defend him or to be guarded by him.

By the way, this heroball things and this inefficency thing are vastly overrated by the usual suspects : media and fanboys ( not you, that have made your honest opinion).

Kobe was able to sacrifice his game when it counted, while he liked to showboat some games for entertainment during the regular season. The most heroball he did it was once he had terrible teams to lead. He showed he was a great passer and playmaker when asked by the coaches. I have the numbers to support it, not only the " vibes"...
Bottom line Kobe was able to be the best heroball and the best team player when needed. Was he perfect ? Obviously not, but he was all about winning and he was one of the most unselfish guys ever, despite a manipulated bad narrative.

2004 NBA finals? Chauncey said their strategy was to let Shaq get his and watch Kobe shoot them out of the game.
"We knew there was no way we could stop Shaq straight-up. But what’s going to happen is Mr. Bryant is going to get a little discouraged with getting no touches and now the second half comes around…now he’s pressing. He’s going to start coming down and just breaking the offense."
Kobe took 29 more shots and was -16TS% compared to Shaq, also had 22 assists to 18 turnovers.

First of all Kobe was the reason why the Lakers didn't get swept, with his clutch 3 pointer in game two to send the game in overtime.

Second : the Lakers lost the series on defense, because they were not able to stop Billups ( Payton was a delusion ) and because thay had to play Medvedenko instead of the injured Malone , who was the guy that limited TD... so Rasheed could go off

Third : when an entire team let Shaq do his thing and plays his best defense on Kobe, that's a testament of the fact of who was the most feared guy. Obviously they didn't let really Shaq dunk on them all the time. They denied often the pass to him, ; so Kobe had two choices : give the ball to Slava Medvedenko or Paul George or Payton, who kept bricking; or trying to save the day by himself.
Not saying he played well, but the Piston's strategy forced him to play bad and he took all the responsability. They simply were the better team without Malone and with a terrible Payton. It was his worst Final ever, by the way...

Last thing : Kobe was simply mentally exausted, after the year in Colorado. Not an excuse of his worst Final series, but the guy is human... after carrying the team to the Finals ( and the win in game 2 ).

Now let's open another topic on this , and let everybody else talk about the Sixers...

[puja21]

This isn't even an issue of "The Process" imo, it's the culture Morey creates. He pampers his stars to an extreme amount. It's how he get stars to come to his teams, but then they become primadonnas at every stop after... Happened with Harden (TWICE) and Howard, now happening Embiid and won't be surprised if PG follows suit.

Ya, its about time to ask what the correlation is. If Morey attracted to primadonnas? Or does he create them?

It's a great question tbh...

My opinion is probably more that he attracts them vs create them because they know if he's running the team, they can do whatever the **** they want. But...

Because he attracts them, he also super-charges them. So players who have that inclination get their desires fed into by Morey-led teams because that's the culture he creates. So it's a chicken and the egg scenario. Stars who have that inclination to just be pampered left-right-and-center will go to teams he leads because they get that. In turn, they don't get pushed by players and FO's who put culture over pamper (Spurs, Miami, GSW, etc).

To Morey's credit - I think it's a hard fine-line to balance. But I think after nearly a decade, it's clear it's not how to do it. Even before Morey, you could look at a guy like Bob Whitsitt who largely had the same philosophy for roster building... it WILL get you star players if the FO is on board and not asking questions... BUT... Using Bob's own words, "I'm not a chemistry major"... that same thing kills rosters by just trying to put as many stars together as possible without an underlining culture of "hey, we're gonna give a **** and don't just want our asses wiped for us".

surprised to see anyone -- let alone 3 people -- would tie Dwight Howard's behavior/personality to Daryl Morey

This guy was always a mess and has never known his true self.

Around the time he was drafted, Dwight told reporters he wanted to change the NBA logo from Jerry West... to a [Christian] cross because he was a "man of faith."
In a few short years he had 5 children by 5 women.
Later there were leaked text messages showing an uh ... alternative lifestyle (no judgement, but "alternative" to those 2 prior Dwights)

Before Houston, he was already hated by opponents, teammates and coaches alike, reportedly for being corny, selfish, and immature.

There was the podium disaster with Stan Van Gundy where he demanded Stan's firing then tried to publicly hug him.

You've got the Superman feud with Shaq calling him a fraud.

A teammate (Kobe) called Dwight "soft" and dared him to "try me"

All this predated Morey.

At no point was Dwight Howard anything but a prima donna with no real identity and it has made him an outsider

The entire bubble, including his own teammates, left him hanging at the League hosted DJ party -- just was Dwight live streaming himself alone, save for the paid staff. Walking around dancing alone, giving them high fives, while every other player was off somewhere else -- away from Dwight

Morey is a lot of things but Dwight's nonsense is not on him.

[ItsDanger]

Somebody has to call him out. Who else on this roster? Embiid asks like a big ***** while walking like the tough guy. He's all talk.