Game 15:MIN at TOR

[Calinks]

They both were in the wrong. More so Randle for the blatant disregard. You got to empower your teammates, that was a situation where Rudy could have scored. Sure he might have fumbled but that wasn't a given. If he missed, oh well, another TO, get back and defend. If he makes it, we get a bucket, Rudy feels great, it might spark a run.

One of the first things Towns did after the trade was make Rudy feel like a contributor, he was one of the top guys feeding Rudy when everybody else was complaining or getting frustrated with him. It made a difference. Chemistry is out of whack, I hope Finch can do something to help get it back on track. The fact that Ant was piling on is not good, we don't need a situation where these guys start turning on Rudy or something his motivation goes down the toilet. We are screwed in that scenario.

[Calinks]

I don't think its all doom and gloom yet though. We are in a bad way right now but a couple of good wins will quickly turn this around. I still think we can be a top team in the west but we need to start acting fast. It's still early but the season also moves swiftly, we are approaching the first quarter mark of the season. The time to get things together and start clicking is upon us.

[Baseline81]

I don't think its all doom and gloom yet though. We are in a bad way right now but a couple of good wins will quickly turn this around. I still think we can be a top team in the west but we need to start acting fast. It's still early but the season also moves swiftly, we are approaching the first quarter mark of the season. The time to get things together and start clicking is upon us.

I just don't see it happening. That trade was a gigantic step in the wrong direction, and the likely result now is team playing .500 ball.

[TimberKat]

With any other big I completely agree. However, I’ve seen Rudy fumble this type of opportunity way too many times to trust him even with great position.

Rudy requires very specific passes otherwise it’s a loss. While he may have drawn a foul, our team isn’t smart enough to take advantage of when they’re in the bonus. So that’s not really a plus either.

There was no one within 4 feet of Rudy other than the small defender he had pinned down under the basket. Rudy's hands suck but anyone and I do mean anyone, could have caught that pass. Randle was an idiot for not getting it to him and Rudy was a baby for acting the way he did from not getting it. That was an easy basket or FTs.

All valid points and I def don't disagree from a basketball standpoint. Although there's doubt when it comes to the personnel that has the advantage. We've seen Rudy fumble these same plays in the past so it's not a guarantee he'd even get the foul. I'm sure they want to be able to pass him the ball, but it's just not the best situation.

All in all, Randle prob should've passed him the ball and dealt with whatever after. Clear disconnect within the team right now.

Again, right or wrong, you have to feed Gobert to win. Ant by nature is not a passer that is why he never won anything until last year. Randle seems to gotten worse with kick outs. Totally agree with you must enable your teammates to win. Even though Wilt scored 100 pts a game, I don't think he won a championship until he start pass the ball. Sure better teammates helps. Sure Randle and Ant will carry this team for a few games but it is not going to be 44 games. You think this is bad, wait until Sunday when we get blowout by 25 against the Celtics. Now I feel like we are worse than Philly.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Remember the days when Timberwolves fans would turn cartwheels for an 8 - 7 record? I remember begging for anything close to a winning record for most of the past 36 years...

But expectations are a funny thing.

It's been tough to watch this team all year. And things seem to be getting worse. The chemistry. The defense. The flow. The effort. Yuck.



[Note: The streak in Toronto is crazy. It's not like the Raptors have been a dominant team during the streak. They've been above .500 less than half the time. Every time you think they're due to play well in Toronto... nope. nope. nope. nope. x 16.]

[minimus]

They both were in the wrong. More so Randle for the blatant disregard. You got to empower your teammates, that was a situation where Rudy could have scored. Sure he might have fumbled but that wasn't a given. If he missed, oh well, another TO, get back and defend. If he makes it, we get a bucket, Rudy feels great, it might spark a run.

One of the first things Towns did after the trade was make Rudy feel like a contributor, he was one of the top guys feeding Rudy when everybody else was complaining or getting frustrated with him. It made a difference. Chemistry is out of whack, I hope Finch can do something to help get it back on track. The fact that Ant was piling on is not good, we don't need a situation where these guys start turning on Rudy or something his motivation goes down the toilet. We are screwed in that scenario.

Randle has relative short wingspan and he is 6'9". If I look at this particular situation: Randle is playing against Poeltl who is 7'1" with 7'2" wingspan. Towns is 6'11"with 7'3" wingspan and in many situations when he played against forwards he could see over opponent and more importantly pass over/around opponent. Randle in such situations must be proactive and beat opponents either by taking them of dribble or by drawing double team and making kick out pass.

[_AIJ_]

My personal conclussions from the game:

-Loose-loose: They ain't any closer to a Flag and we ain't any closer to a Banner.

-The Rookie With A Gangsta Name is not ready yet.

-Fincho is one facepalm ahead to put Ol' Man Jingles into the rotation. Every time out was immeaditely followed by one (or even two) turnovers.

-Conley pointed educately out to The Prophets Of Mike's Decadence what actually happens to the team when he's not there.

-Julius Random is always points-productive even if just from FT.
You can't argue with that.
You just can argue about all of the rest and win all debates.

-Naz swears he lost the plane to Canada and has no idea who was that impersonator they put at court with his shirt.

-Some POR games were hard to watch but this one is an entire different level: watching a Super Nova explossion from the closest planet without sunglasses wouldn't hurt your eyes that much.



In summary: Still Late Pre Season so let's wait a while 'til calling for Rägnarok.
I admit I'm yet sharpening my battle axe tho.

WTF lmao

[Note30]

We could have just slow played it and made smart small moves.

Nah. It is not NBA2K. Just watch NYK path: Brunson took paycut, Bridges plays for 20mil, this why they could afford massive Towns incoming contract. BUT, they traded five FRPs, paid OG, lost DDV and currently have no bench and no quality backup big. And more importantly they have all possible defensive issues when Towns is responsible for rim protection.

Can our FO do a better job of rebuilding around Edwards? Sure.
Can our coaching staff do a better job of getting the best from our players? Sure.
Can our players simply care more about winning? Sure.

But it is a real life, and such things dont happen overnight.

What New York did was **** stupid too. They shouldn't have paid that much for Bridges.

Nearly every time a massive trade like this happens at a 5 pick level it nearly always blows up in that teams face.

Unless they are trading for a top 5 player and when I say top 5, I mean like at a Giannis Luka level, not this stats based bull of a guy who can't shoot or dribble the **** ball in the top 10. (aka this total rationalization about Rudy being that good).

I would rather have conceded that this team wasn't going to work with KAT, if and we when tried to make good adjustments for him rather than blowing everything on an unproven experiment we didn't have the money to pay for.

This whole oh that's not how life works is rationalization and delusions.

EDIT: We don't have anything left to use to rebuild around Edwards. He's going to ask for a trade eventually and when that happens don't be shocked. Maybe not this year or the next. But for sure before he has to re-up on a new contract.

I actually don't have a major problem with the coaching. Yes it's not amazing but it's difficult putting a championship team around a has been point guard and a limited high salary player like Gobert.

Players caring about winning reflects leadership. That culture doesn't exist probably because we traded our heart and soul for a dime bag.

[Slim Tubby]

You know I kept wondering why we keep losing to garbage lottery teams.
Then I finally made peace with the fact that it's because we are also a garbage lottery team.

We thought the KAT/Gobert pairing was a little bit awkward.
The Randle/Gobert pairing is a toxic swamp of utter dysfunction on both ends of the court.

Divencenzo is supposed to be a sniper and is nothing but a complete bricklayer here.
The follow through on his shot is absolutely effing awful like he's clowning around in a pick up game.

A couple months ago we had two guys to build a team around and now we only have one, plus a bunch of mediocre overpaid inconsistent role players and the power forward version of DeAngelo Russell (as many others have pointed out here).

Gobert is playing about the worst I've ever seen him here, just a complete mental midget out there all the freaking time.
And without Kyle Anderson out there to keep him in line and direct traffic its an utter layup line for the other team each and every night. Luka freaking Garza would have given up fewer paint points tonight that's how ineffective Gobert was.

So stoked to owe our 25, 27, 29, and 31 1st round picks plus swap in 26 and 30 and have this dysfunctional mess of garbage to cheer for. We were hard on KAT for melting down in the playoffs against really good teams from Memphis, Denver, and Dallas.
Julius Randle can't even handle crunch time against regular season lottery fodder.

Ownership has to be absolutely thrilled to go 150 million in the hole for this hot pile of garbage.
I foresee some massive selloffs at the trade deadline to try to trim that luxury tax bill.

Finch was utterly invisible tonight.
The time for being a nice guy is over.
It's time to yell and hurt some feelings and sit guys when they are playing lousy.
There are some hungry young guys on the bench who can't possibly be any worse than watching this garbage.

You're frustrated...and maybe a little angry. Me, too.

The Gobert trade mortgaged our future. The KAT trade mortgaged our present. It's only going to get worse, I fear.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

At the end of the day, basically everyone is to blame.

Randle: Probably got to throw that pass.
Gobert: Can't react like that to get the 3 seconds and compound it with a hip check
Finch: I probably make a lineup change at that point. On the other hand, taking one out and not the other could be seen as taking a side. Do you take both out?

At that point, the game was basically lost.

I do think we can bounce back from this. The punch two seasons ago seemed to be an isolated incident. But I do think it's worth looking back at that, especially since Gobert is supposed to be one of our team leaders. That's the scary part right now, and that's why I actually appreciated Ant getting on Rudy's case right away. Gobert's case may be valid, but pouting and retaliating is not how you respond as a good leader.

[winforlose]

At the end of the day, basically everyone is to blame.

Randle: Probably got to throw that pass.
Gobert: Can't react like that to get the 3 seconds and compound it with a hip check
Finch: I probably make a lineup change at that point. On the other hand, taking one out and not the other could be seen as taking a side. Do you take both out?

At that point, the game was basically lost.

I do think we can bounce back from this. The punch two seasons ago seemed to be an isolated incident. But I do think it's worth looking back at that, especially since Gobert is supposed to be one of our team leaders. That's the scary part right now, and that's why I actually appreciated Ant getting on Rudy's case right away. Gobert's case may be valid, but pouting and retaliating is not how you respond as a good leader.

Naz wasn’t hurt yet. I bench Rudy, Randle, and Ant. Ant is supposed to be a leader and he went at Rudy. I am not sure the hip check happens if Ant doesn’t lose his **** on Rudy. I say screw the game, let’s get this team fixed. Dilly is out with an Ankle, so NAW/DDV/Jaden/Naz/Garza finish the game. Make those three watch and know that they did this to themselves. Then if the game is still competitive with 2 minutes left and these 3 have settled down, throw them back in. If not, make them sit with the loss. Either way, Finch BLEW IT!

[Folklore]

My personal conclussions from the game:

-Loose-loose: They ain't any closer to a Flag and we ain't any closer to a Banner.

-The Rookie With A Gangsta Name is not ready yet.

-Fincho is one facepalm ahead to put Ol' Man Jingles into the rotation. Every time out was immeaditely followed by one (or even two) turnovers.

-Conley pointed educately out to The Prophets Of Mike's Decadence what actually happens to the team when he's not there.

-Julius Random is always points-productive even if just from FT.
You can't argue with that.
You just can argue about all of the rest and win all debates.

-Naz swears he lost the plane to Canada and has no idea who was that impersonator they put at court with his shirt.

-Some POR games were hard to watch but this one is an entire different level: watching a Super Nova explossion from the closest planet without sunglasses wouldn't hurt your eyes that much.



In summary: Still Late Pre Season so let's wait a while 'til calling for Rägnarok.
I admit I'm yet sharpening my battle axe tho.

It looked like RD had a great game to me. He didn't get beat by his man the whole time and he passed the ball well. I can't blame him for the team not making the best of his passing and Finch's offense is horrible. After RD scored it felt like Finch told him to stop looking to score and to just pass the ball.

Like others pointed out you could see Rudy getting more and more frustrated as the game went on. Sometimes you have to reward a guy for playing hard, especially a Center. Doesn't mean that he should get the ball all the time like some assume.

Rudy being the first move of TC was the first domino of other bad moves to makeup for his first move. The most recent move was so we could save money so, we, may have just sent Kat away, for a downgrade of NAW? I still say that we should blow the team up.

[Klomp]

It feels like we are stuck in the middle between two identities. We are trying to infuse more offense, while at the same time trying to hold onto that defensive identity that helped bring us to the Western Conference Finals. I'm honestly not sure we can do both, I think before long we will have to choose one or the other.

It's especially interesting because the two young cornerstones Edwards and McDaniels can lean either way.

But largely, the rest of the team is divided between the two identities.
Defense, Halfcourt: Gobert, Conley, Alexander-Walker, Ingles, Dozier
Offense, Tempo: Randle, Reid, Dillingham, DiVincenzo, Miller, Shannon, Garza

[El Hespiritu]

I respect your opinions Mr. (or Ms.) Folklore.

So like others pointed out...

Mmmh...

Interesting.
I've never felt the need to make an account of ones or anothers pointing or not pointing out what I'm stating.

But I respect you feel that need.
Same as I respect your opinions.

[frankenwolf]

At the end of the day, basically everyone is to blame.

Randle: Probably got to throw that pass.
Gobert: Can't react like that to get the 3 seconds and compound it with a hip check
Finch: I probably make a lineup change at that point. On the other hand, taking one out and not the other could be seen as taking a side. Do you take both out?

At that point, the game was basically lost.

I do think we can bounce back from this. The punch two seasons ago seemed to be an isolated incident. But I do think it's worth looking back at that, especially since Gobert is supposed to be one of our team leaders. That's the scary part right now, and that's why I actually appreciated Ant getting on Rudy's case right away. Gobert's case may be valid, but pouting and retaliating is not how you respond as a good leader.

Naz wasn’t hurt yet. I bench Rudy, Randle, and Ant. Ant is supposed to be a leader and he went at Rudy. I am not sure the hip check happens if Ant doesn’t lose his **** on Rudy. I say screw the game, let’s get this team fixed. Dilly is out with an Ankle, so NAW/DDV/Jaden/Naz/Garza finish the game. Make those three watch and know that they did this to themselves. Then if the game is still competitive with 2 minutes left and these 3 have settled down, throw them back in. If not, make them sit with the loss. Either way, Finch BLEW IT!

Nope, not going to bench Ant for making Rudy accountable. Should Randle have passed the ball? Probably. Is Randle frustrated with Rudy because he can't handle 70% of the passes that come his way? Probably. Should Rudy have pouted and gotten that three second call? No and if I was Finch, I would have yanked him so fast his head would spin. Ant was on Rudy for the spoiled kid attitude he displayed. That's what leaders do. Could he have done it in close and quietly? Yes and should have, but Ant does everything out loud, so that could be talked about later and be a teaching point to become the GOAT.

I miss KAT, even though I was frustrated with him at times.

[winforlose]

At the end of the day, basically everyone is to blame.

Randle: Probably got to throw that pass.
Gobert: Can't react like that to get the 3 seconds and compound it with a hip check
Finch: I probably make a lineup change at that point. On the other hand, taking one out and not the other could be seen as taking a side. Do you take both out?

At that point, the game was basically lost.

I do think we can bounce back from this. The punch two seasons ago seemed to be an isolated incident. But I do think it's worth looking back at that, especially since Gobert is supposed to be one of our team leaders. That's the scary part right now, and that's why I actually appreciated Ant getting on Rudy's case right away. Gobert's case may be valid, but pouting and retaliating is not how you respond as a good leader.

Naz wasn’t hurt yet. I bench Rudy, Randle, and Ant. Ant is supposed to be a leader and he went at Rudy. I am not sure the hip check happens if Ant doesn’t lose his **** on Rudy. I say screw the game, let’s get this team fixed. Dilly is out with an Ankle, so NAW/DDV/Jaden/Naz/Garza finish the game. Make those three watch and know that they did this to themselves. Then if the game is still competitive with 2 minutes left and these 3 have settled down, throw them back in. If not, make them sit with the loss. Either way, Finch BLEW IT!

Nope, not going to bench Ant for making Rudy accountable. Should Randle have passed the ball? Probably. Is Randle frustrated with Rudy because he can't handle 70% of the passes that come his way? Probably. Should Rudy have pouted and gotten that three second call? No and if I was Finch, I would have yanked him so fast his head would spin. Ant was on Rudy for the spoiled kid attitude he displayed. That's what leaders do. Could he have done it in close and quietly? Yes and should have, but Ant does everything out loud, so that could be talked about later and be a teaching point to become the GOAT.

I miss KAT, even though I was frustrated with him at times.

You have a clearly frustrated Rudy who is fuming. You get in his grill saying WTF and going at him, what do you think will happen. This isn’t holding him accountable, this is winding him up when he is already wound too tight. Ant pretty much caused what happened next. He needs to show better judgment about when to go hard and when to calm things down. End of game is not the time to go hard. People like Mike would never come at him like that. Kyle did and punches got thrown. Ant is young but he is also dumb.

[Note30]

My personal conclussions from the game:

-Loose-loose: They ain't any closer to a Flag and we ain't any closer to a Banner.

-The Rookie With A Gangsta Name is not ready yet.

-Fincho is one facepalm ahead to put Ol' Man Jingles into the rotation. Every time out was immeaditely followed by one (or even two) turnovers.

-Conley pointed educately out to The Prophets Of Mike's Decadence what actually happens to the team when he's not there.

-Julius Random is always points-productive even if just from FT.
You can't argue with that.
You just can argue about all of the rest and win all debates.

-Naz swears he lost the plane to Canada and has no idea who was that impersonator they put at court with his shirt.

-Some POR games were hard to watch but this one is an entire different level: watching a Super Nova explossion from the closest planet without sunglasses wouldn't hurt your eyes that much.



In summary: Still Late Pre Season so let's wait a while 'til calling for Rägnarok.
I admit I'm yet sharpening my battle axe tho.

It looked like RD had a great game to me. He didn't get beat by his man the whole time and he passed the ball well. I can't blame him for the team not making the best of his passing and Finch's offense is horrible. After RD scored it felt like Finch told him to stop looking to score and to just pass the ball.

Like others pointed out you could see Rudy getting more and more frustrated as the game went on. Sometimes you have to reward a guy for playing hard, especially a Center. Doesn't mean that he should get the ball all the time like some assume.

Rudy being the first move of TC was the first domino of other bad moves to makeup for his first move. The most recent move was so we could save money so, we, may have just sent Kat away, for a downgrade of NAW? I still say that we should blow the team up.

Blow up the team and do what? We have no assets, draft picks, nothing. We're not getting **** for this pupu platter of a team unless we trade Ant.

[Shaka_Zulu]

We need to move Randle with first possible decent offer in trade deadline.


He really is not worth imploding a teams culture and cohesion over with his boneheaded ways.

[winforlose]

We need to move Randle with first possible decent offer in trade deadline.


He really is not worth imploding a teams culture and cohesion over with his boneheaded ways.

It’s not just Randle. DDV is proving he cannot function on ball and drain 3s. Meanwhile Ant goes whole possessions without passing and Naz is struggling to find his rhythm on either side of the ball. The culture is already sick, and KAT was glue that held things together. Without him we need a new glue guy, and I don’t know who that is.

P.S. Too many guys are in contract years. NAW, Randle, and Naz doesn’t sound like a lot, but that is 3 out of 8 or 37.5% of our rotation.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

We could have just slow played it and made smart small moves.

Nah. It is not NBA2K. Just watch NYK path: Brunson took paycut, Bridges plays for 20mil, this why they could afford massive Towns incoming contract. BUT, they traded five FRPs, paid OG, lost DDV and currently have no bench and no quality backup big. And more importantly they have all possible defensive issues when Towns is responsible for rim protection.

Can our FO do a better job of rebuilding around Edwards? Sure.
Can our coaching staff do a better job of getting the best from our players? Sure.
Can our players simply care more about winning? Sure.

But it is a real life, and such things dont happen overnight.

What New York did was **** stupid too. They shouldn't have paid that much for Bridges.

Nearly every time a massive trade like this happens at a 5 pick level it nearly always blows up in that teams face.

Unless they are trading for a top 5 player and when I say top 5, I mean like at a Giannis Luka level, not this stats based bull of a guy who can't shoot or dribble the **** ball in the top 10. (aka this total rationalization about Rudy being that good).

I would rather have conceded that this team wasn't going to work with KAT, if and we when tried to make good adjustments for him rather than blowing everything on an unproven experiment we didn't have the money to pay for.

This whole oh that's not how life works is rationalization and delusions.

EDIT: We don't have anything left to use to rebuild around Edwards. He's going to ask for a trade eventually and when that happens don't be shocked. Maybe not this year or the next. But for sure before he has to re-up on a new contract.

I actually don't have a major problem with the coaching. Yes it's not amazing but it's difficult putting a championship team around a has been point guard and a limited high salary player like Gobert.

Players caring about winning reflects leadership. That culture doesn't exist probably because we traded our heart and soul for a dime bag.

The main difference between Knicks and us is that Knicks will finish 2 or 3 at East conference. We are far from that.