I think I’m done with Scoot

[Norm2953]

However you want to spin it, if you have a lottery pick, even in a draft that was supposedly weak (I think that was bs), you should go for a player with high upside, not a role player. You have to roll the dice and hopefully luck into a star. Deni is not, and never will be a star. Ryan Dunn is another guy i was really vocal about and could be one of the best 3/d guys in the league someday. I would have taken Knecht and tried to get another pick(s) for Grant/Simons/Ayton to get Dunn which I posted about a lot leading up to the draft.

Scoot, Banton
Shaedon, Thybulle
Knecht, Murray
Camara, Dunn
Clingan, RW

I think that's a better, more exciting team. Knecht is a great shooter but he's also a great scorer in general, not sure why he has the reputation as a 3 pt specialist other than being a white dude. He was the focal point of the defense in college and had no problems dropping 30 point games without the gravity of Lebron and Davis.

Speaking of exciting, I can't wait to have Thybulle back. I'm not sure how the minutes will work but the defense should be top tier with RW, Clingan, Thybulle, Deni, Camara, Murray. The man to man defense of Deni and Camara with the disruptive defense of Thybulle, the rim protection of RW and Clingan should be pretty fun to watch.

The 2000 NBA draft very famously when Darius Miles went third, had no high upside pick

Most of the time, there are only two players with any real upside and as recently as 2023, Victor appears to be
the only really high upside player (he happens to be a generational player). Far too early to have any real opinion
as to the merits of the 2024 class.

Imagine however where Portland would be if they had won the lottery and drafted Victor. Chauncey might even with
such a player

[BlazersBroncos]

I can get on board with PDX being foolish for moving off ALL their SRP - looks like we missed on some decent talents.

But considering age, and removing cost, I think a player like Deni is much harder to find than one like Dalton. I am also miles past starting undersized guys. Dalton at SF is just not my cup of tea. I love the length we have been able to field with Simons out.

[zzaj]

I can get on board with PDX being foolish for moving off ALL their SRP - looks like we missed on some decent talents.

But considering age, and removing cost, I think a player like Deni is much harder to find than one like Dalton. I am also miles past starting undersized guys. Dalton at SF is just not my cup of tea. I love the length we have been able to field with Simons out.

Agreed here.

I think it's pretty dumb to think that Deni isn't going to improve...christ, he's the same age as Knecht. Is Knecht not going to improve because he's 23 too?!

Knecht will likely be a fine pro, but he has fringe ASG upside (IMHO). The last thing the Blazers need is to be building around another fringe ASG guard (hello CJ and Simons) or undersized SF.

Look at the recent years of NBA champions. How many had undersized players at any position leading the team? The NBA is now about shot creation (particularly 3pt) from size and 2-way team play.

I think Deni is underrated here because he's not putting up massive points. He doesn't need to. He plays great defense both on-ball and off. Makes few mistakes with or without the ball, has an incredibly high feel for the game and still has 2-3 years before he begins his prime.

If Deni was playing like he is now at 10/6/3 and the Blazers picked him 14th, we'd be ecstatic. I expect his FG% to normalize to his mean and for him to become a 13/6/3 connective player with good defense. Those types of players are invaluable.

I agree the Blazers need to be prioritizing length and defense. Adding shooting is important, but not at the cost of defense.

[BlazersBroncos]

Realistically - what separates Kispert from Dalton?

Dont get me wrong, Dalton is going to be a nice player and has strung together some great games but IMO he will come back to earth and his likely outcome is a Kispert type - IMO a elite 7th man or a starting SG on a team with a stacked roster who is asked to, like Kispert, run off screens and hit open shots.

And again, do we really want a 6'6 215lb SF after years of being tiny? Deni is listed at 6'9 and 240lbs. There is a huge size differential.

[DusterBuster]

I can get on board with PDX being foolish for moving off ALL their SRP - looks like we missed on some decent talents.

But considering age, and removing cost, I think a player like Deni is much harder to find than one like Dalton. I am also miles past starting undersized guys. Dalton at SF is just not my cup of tea. I love the length we have been able to field with Simons out.

Agreed here.

I think it's pretty dumb to think that Deni isn't going to improve...christ, he's the same age as Knecht. Is Knecht not going to improve because he's 23 too?!

Knecht will likely be a fine pro, but he has fringe ASG upside (IMHO). The last thing the Blazers need is to be building around another fringe ASG guard (hello CJ and Simons) or undersized SF.

Look at the recent years of NBA champions. How many had undersized players at any position leading the team? The NBA is now about shot creation (particularly 3pt) from size and 2-way team play.

I think Deni is underrated here because he's not putting up massive points. He doesn't need to. He plays great defense both on-ball and off. Makes few mistakes with or without the ball, has an incredibly high feel for the game and still has 2-3 years before he begins his prime.

If Deni was playing like he is now at 10/6/3 and the Blazers picked him 14th, we'd be ecstatic. I expect his FG% to normalize to his mean and for him to become a 13/6/3 connective player with good defense. Those types of players are invaluable.

I agree the Blazers need to be prioritizing length and defense. Adding shooting is important, but not at the cost of defense.

Sure, if he was only the 14th pick. Being the 14th pick AND another future 1st round pick... that's a little less ecstatic.

[Case2012]

The cope is ridiculous. Look at knecht's stat line tonight.. Deni is a role player, Knecht's got all star potential and he's gonna win roty, bet on it.

[Norm2953]

I can get on board with PDX being foolish for moving off ALL their SRP - looks like we missed on some decent talents.

But considering age, and removing cost, I think a player like Deni is much harder to find than one like Dalton. I am also miles past starting undersized guys. Dalton at SF is just not my cup of tea. I love the length we have been able to field with Simons out.

It was stupid to give away their SRP but they were more concerned about staying under the apron.

Blazers likely had flashbacks to the times when they had 6-5 guys like Evan Turner and Kent Bazemore playing
SF for them and opted for the 6-9 player who is signed under a solid contract. Blazers might not have picked
Knecht for they could have opted for Tristian De Silva at 14 and kept their 2029 pick.

It would have been interesting if Kyle Filipowski had gotten to 34 for he's have a solid rookie season with
the Jazz.

[monopoman]

I can get on board with PDX being foolish for moving off ALL their SRP - looks like we missed on some decent talents.

But considering age, and removing cost, I think a player like Deni is much harder to find than one like Dalton. I am also miles past starting undersized guys. Dalton at SF is just not my cup of tea. I love the length we have been able to field with Simons out.

Deni has played pretty well in my eyes, sure he isn't quite up to the hype he had coming in but he is still a pretty damn good player for this team.

I also agree that it in today's NBA a guy like Deni is typically harder to find.

[mighty_duck]

The cope is ridiculous. Look at knecht's stat line tonight.. Deni is a role player, Knecht's got all star potential and he's gonna win roty, bet on it.

The guy was a 5th pick on most mock draft boards, can't believe he fell that far. Looks like he is in a great situation.
Also look at the scoring over his last 3 games - 14, 27, 37. If my math checks out, by season's end he'll be scoring 820 points a night.
Maybe I shouldn't do math after midnight though.

[zzaj]

The cope is ridiculous. Look at knecht's stat line tonight.. Deni is a role player, Knecht's got all star potential and he's gonna win roty, bet on it.

I'll take that bet. I'm going picking Jared McCain.

Dalton had 3 years in college shooting 38% from 3. He's going to come down from 46% eventually, even with more spacing in the NBA and drafting off of Lebron and Davis. McCain is already putting up better numbers and is close to his college percentages.

[Walton1one]

The cope is ridiculous. Look at knecht's stat line tonight.. Deni is a role player, Knecht's got all star potential and he's gonna win roty, bet on it.

I'll take that bet. I'm going picking Jared McCain.

Dalton had 3 years in college shooting 38% from 3. He's going to come down from 46% eventually, even with more spacing in the NBA and drafting off of Lebron and Davis. McCain is already putting up better numbers and is close to his college percentages.

Both players have looked good, both players were in for POR for workouts. POR passed on both players in favor of Deni.

I like Deni, I like all the other intangibles he provides (defense, secondary playmaking, pushing pace, general overall hustle), but again, team composition comes to mind. I posted this in another thread, but on a team already SEVERELY overloaded with non-shooting athletic wings, adding another similar (albeit, better) version is just pure stupidity and to make matters worse they paid a premium to do so.

Even with the little mini win streak, POR ranks dead last in EFF FG%. You cannot win consistently or be a contending team without rectifying that and Cronin has literally done nothing to fix it.

[mighty_duck]

Both players have looked good, both players were in for POR for workouts. POR passed on both players in favor of Deni.

IIRC, the Deni trade happened before the draft, so we didn't know that Knecht would be available at 14. The assumption was that he would be gone long before then.

[Case2012]

Both players have looked good, both players were in for POR for workouts. POR passed on both players in favor of Deni.

IIRC, the Deni trade happened before the draft, so we didn't know that Knecht would be available at 14. The assumption was that he would be gone long before then.

That's part of the problem, they had that trade lined up no matter who was on the board.That's not a good thing. Tunnel vision, not being able to adjust and be fluid is not a good way to build a team. It was always going to be Scoot if he fell to us, it was always going to be Clingan, It was always going be either Murray or Sharpe and it was always going to be Deni.

I still have some hope for Scoot, but I think he's soft and aloof. I hate that mentality, same with Sharpe. Clingan plays tough but he looks like he's having too much fun, whereas Edey looks like he wants to rip your spine out through your throat. These guys have tons of talent and athleticism, but they come off kind of dumb to be to be honest and lack intensity that can't be taught. Ayton and Simons have this problem as well. Camara, Banton,Murray and obviously RW are the exception. That's another reason I wanted Dunn and Knecht, they play with high motors and this team is lacking in that aside from a few guys.

Of course, a lot of this could be blamed on Billups, who is not a development coach, and just terrible in general.

I wonder what this team would have looked like with Stotts, who was never given long defensive players.

Watch on YouTube

[Walton1one]

Good post and unfortunately that appears correct. They laser focus on their guy and are blind to anyone else. Still cannot get over how they sold their 2nd pick, just ridiculous, probably Vulcan related.

Yeah, Scoot has been a little disappointing so far, though I was surprised to discover he leads the team in AST%, asst\game and total assists. I think that is where he needs to focus for now, being that distributor.

[zzaj]

The cope is ridiculous. Look at knecht's stat line tonight.. Deni is a role player, Knecht's got all star potential and he's gonna win roty, bet on it.

I'll take that bet. I'm going picking Jared McCain.

Dalton had 3 years in college shooting 38% from 3. He's going to come down from 46% eventually, even with more spacing in the NBA and drafting off of Lebron and Davis. McCain is already putting up better numbers and is close to his college percentages.

Both players have looked good, both players were in for POR for workouts. POR passed on both players in favor of Deni.

I like Deni, I like all the other intangibles he provides (defense, secondary playmaking, pushing pace, general overall hustle), but again, team composition comes to mind. I posted this in another thread, but on a team already SEVERELY overloaded with non-shooting athletic wings, adding another similar (albeit, better) version is just pure stupidity and to make matters worse they paid a premium to do so.

Even with the little mini win streak, POR ranks dead last in EFF FG%. You cannot win consistently or be a contending team without rectifying that and Cronin has literally done nothing to fix it.

Well, to that end, adding Knecht isn't going to magically change a team from dead last in EFF FG%.

I'll say it again--if the Blazers drafted Deni in this draft at 14 and he played like he's playing now, we'd all be pretty ecstatic. The fact that he's likely to get better, or at least come closer to the median of his averages is icing.

Personally, I don't think the price for Deni was all that high.

[Walton1one]

Well, to that end, adding Knecht isn't going to magically change a team from dead last in EFF FG%.

No one player is going to fix the EFF FG% mess that is this team currently, however, it certainly might be step in the right direction.

The fact that Deni is in his 4th NBA season and yet is only 3 months older than Dalton Knecht is a valid point.

Deni's play so far this year IMO is more a product of how Billups utilizes him and this team's composition, more than his ability. The fact of the matter is POR is misusing him and not putting him into the best position for him to succeed (not unlike Scoot).

Which, begs the question, why do you invest those types of valuable assets (for POR) to then sit back and see him mis-utilized? The disconnect b\t Cronin & Billups is mind boggling

[JasonStern]

Backing off my Clingan ROY bet. Knecht looks like he will run away with it. JJ is a good coach and playing the best players vs vets who he think need the minutes out of “respect”. Dalton is getting too much run too early.

Just 2-3 solid games. I think if clingan starts all year he has a real shot but that's a big if with ayton around. I think ayton cries more about coming off the bench

I still bet that Ayton would just sit and pout and be “injured” for a lot of the season. That said, Dalton I think will be the odds favorite for ROY if they keep him in the starting lineup. Bro has no hesitation letting it fly and JJ has given him the greenlight.

No. That would benefit the team. Instead, Billups will play him at least 24 minutes - with him jogging around both sides of the court at a pace my old *** could match. He'll get his 10 points per game through chucking, and 10 rebounds a game because he is tall. All while Suns fans laugh at us, overlooking that we at least got Camara out of that trade.

[JasonStern]

The 2000 NBA draft very famously when Darius Miles went third, had no high upside pick

Revisionist history. Miles had a 47 point game and all of the potential to be great. He just had a substance abuse problem, medium to low BBIQ, and injuries (probably due in part to not taking practice seriously). He had a high upside. He just never lived up to it.

[DusterBuster]

The 2000 NBA draft very famously when Darius Miles went third, had no high upside pick

Revisionist history. Miles had a 47 point game and all of the potential to be great. He just had a substance abuse problem, medium to low BBIQ, and injuries (probably due in part to not taking practice seriously). He had a high upside. He just never lived up to it.

One could argue Scoot checks at least 2 of those 3 boxes.

Even one of the biggest Blazer honks in town, Danny Marang is fully off the "Scoot has star potential" train. Think at this point everyone is just hoping he's a serviceable starter... which is **** depressing.

[Blazinaway]

Just 2-3 solid games. I think if clingan starts all year he has a real shot but that's a big if with ayton around. I think ayton cries more about coming off the bench

I still bet that Ayton would just sit and pout and be “injured” for a lot of the season. That said, Dalton I think will be the odds favorite for ROY if they keep him in the starting lineup. Bro has no hesitation letting it fly and JJ has given him the greenlight.

No. That would benefit the team. Instead, Billups will play him at least 24 minutes - with him jogging around both sides of the court at a pace my old *** could match. He'll get his 10 points per game through chucking, and 10 rebounds a game because he is tall. All while Suns fans laugh at us, overlooking that we at least got Camara out of that trade.

In hindsight would you do the trade over again? I would as Nurk (17 mil per and expiring same year as DA) has been awful, and we got rid of Nas Little's 4 yr 28 mil bad contract we gave him and of course we got Camara, IMO a win for Portland. DA may cost 7-8 mil per more that those salaries combined, but Little's contract runs longer.