Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[disoblige]

I really hope we end at top 5 worst teams ... our young guys are good but not good enough.

[YogurtProducer]

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

While I wouldn't state that it's superior to team building and development (what we're seeing this season with Gradey and Ochai is really exciting), tanking - in the right circumstances and with a competent front office - certainly can guarantee success, in that it can rapidly advance a team's trajectory and ultimate success. The Spurs with Tim Duncan is a great example. Or more recently, how we were able to draft Scottie, as we pivoted to a bit of a tank in the latter stages of the Tampa season.

I'm not a supporter of multi-year tankathons just for the sake of tanking (I sat through years of that with the Bulls and it was pretty miserable). However, with this summer's draft, there are at least five guaranteed talents that could potentially advance our trajectory and ultimate success, becoming a contender much sooner than expected.

Even if we can't draft Bailey or Flagg, there's still Demin, Harper and Edgecombe (amoung others) and this is a golden opportunity to add substantial talent with a quick turnaround towards increased winning and success.

While this is a great draft to tank in, I'll push back on the idea that anything is guaranteed, especially looking at a pool of more than a couple players.

Yeah nothing is certainly guaranteed.

You can get Piston’s and drop to 5 every draft and never even have a great chance at a generation player.

[NinjaBro]

Lock this thread up. It's over.

arrest NinjaBro for hacking Raps in 4's account

Maybe it's just my level headed wisdom is spreading to other members

"We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffin before it's too late!" - PhilBlackson

[nikster]

While I wouldn't state that it's superior to team building and development (what we're seeing this season with Gradey and Ochai is really exciting), tanking - in the right circumstances and with a competent front office - certainly can guarantee success, in that it can rapidly advance a team's trajectory and ultimate success. The Spurs with Tim Duncan is a great example. Or more recently, how we were able to draft Scottie, as we pivoted to a bit of a tank in the latter stages of the Tampa season.

I'm not a supporter of multi-year tankathons just for the sake of tanking (I sat through years of that with the Bulls and it was pretty miserable). However, with this summer's draft, there are at least five guaranteed talents that could potentially advance our trajectory and ultimate success, becoming a contender much sooner than expected.

Even if we can't draft Bailey or Flagg, there's still Demin, Harper and Edgecombe (amoung others) and this is a golden opportunity to add substantial talent with a quick turnaround towards increased winning and success.

While this is a great draft to tank in, I'll push back on the idea that anything is guaranteed, especially looking at a pool of more than a couple players.

Yeah nothing is certainly guaranteed.

You can get Piston’s and drop to 5 every draft and never even have a great chance at a generation player.

Even If you don't drop tons of top 3 picks don't pan out at all, have chronic injury issues or simply end up as no more than decent players.

[SFour]

It's funny, the assessment period is typically 20 games. So, if they close out the next four games with wins. That's still 8-12, if you told me before the season we started 8-12. I'd assume we pulled the plug. I still don't think we run off six in a row here.

There's no assessment period of 20 games when Barnes, IQ , RJ have barely played with each other. Your posts always ignore the context of injury.

This team is only a tanking team with major injuries....that's why anyone who wants to tank wants to get rid of Poeltl because without him it would guarantee a Tampa style tank.

[Psubs]

While this is a great draft to tank in, I'll push back on the idea that anything is guaranteed, especially looking at a pool of more than a couple players.

Yeah nothing is certainly guaranteed.

You can get Piston’s and drop to 5 every draft and never even have a great chance at a generation player.

Even If you don't drop tons of top 3 picks don't pan out at all, have chronic injury issues or simply end up as no more than decent players.

Look at Philly getting Embiid and 3 and then Ben Simmons #1 and Markelle Fultz #1.

[Psubs]

I mean a big part of the problem here is that you (and others) think the only way to break 45 wins is by tanking - despite there being ample evidence that tanking does not guarantee success nor is there any evidence it is any superior to team building.

While I wouldn't state that it's superior to team building and development (what we're seeing this season with Gradey and Ochai is really exciting), tanking - in the right circumstances and with a competent front office - certainly can guarantee success, in that it can rapidly advance a team's trajectory and ultimate success. The Spurs with Tim Duncan is a great example. Or more recently, how we were able to draft Scottie, as we pivoted to a bit of a tank in the latter stages of the Tampa season.

I'm not a supporter of multi-year tankathons just for the sake of tanking (I sat through years of that with the Bulls and it was pretty miserable). However, with this summer's draft, there are at least five guaranteed talents that could potentially advance our trajectory and ultimate success, becoming a contender much sooner than expected.

Even if we can't draft Bailey or Flagg, there's still Demin, Harper and Edgecombe (amoung others) and this is a golden opportunity to add substantial talent with a quick turnaround towards increased winning and success.

While this is a great draft to tank in, I'll push back on the idea that anything is guaranteed, especially looking at a pool of more than a couple players.

It really feels like Bailey (Jalen Green), Cade (Harper), Mobley (Flagg), Suggs (Edgecombe), Scottie (Demin).

Just gotta start looking at finding players later like Franz Wagner or later like Alperen Sengun, Trey Murphy and Jalen Johnson.

[nikster]

Yeah nothing is certainly guaranteed.

You can get Piston’s and drop to 5 every draft and never even have a great chance at a generation player.

Even If you don't drop tons of top 3 picks don't pan out at all, have chronic injury issues or simply end up as no more than decent players.

Look at Philly getting Embiid and 3 and then Ben Simmons #1 and Markelle Fultz #1.

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

[Raps in 4]

Even If you don't drop tons of top 3 picks don't pan out at all, have chronic injury issues or simply end up as no more than decent players.

Look at Philly getting Embiid and 3 and then Ben Simmons #1 and Markelle Fultz #1.

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

[nikster]

Look at Philly getting Embiid and 3 and then Ben Simmons #1 and Markelle Fultz #1.

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

[Raps in 4]

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Jalen Suggs was the consensus #4 pick in 2021 and everyone on this board wanted to draft him. Masai took Scottie instead.

Again, this FO has a proven track record of finding the best player available at whatever spot they're picking. Masai doesn't care who the "consensus" pick is.

[Los_29]

You forgot to include Wemby in your list.

One player in three years. Very nice.

Nice to know that your threshold is generational superstar only. Prepare to be constantly disappointed.

It’s bizarre that you still don’t get this.

[twiggy2]

As much as I'd like tank we are only 3 games out of the play in games, and also getting healthier.

[Clutch0z24]

Lol at some people thinking we are magically going to be a playoff team based off winning 2 in a row both home games against struggling teams in the NBA right now....We are 4-12....Put things in perspective...We will not go on some magical run and be a 40 win team....We will also not lose every game we play ....There will be wins and a few streaks but that does not mean we will not be in the conversation for one of these top picks....

Also gotta look at Boucher who had 22 points shot 7-13 and 3-8 from 3....That production is not likely to keep up and whenever Boucher has these kind of games we tend to win more time than not...Can look at the Kings game we won Boucher also had this kind of a game....Also Barrett vs the T-Wolves went pretty much perfect and had 31 points...That will not happen every game as well...

[nikster]

Lol at some people thinking we are magically going to be a playoff team based off winning 2 in a row both home games against struggling teams in the NBA right now....We are 4-12....Put things in perspective...We will not go on some magical run and be a 40 win team....We will also not lose every game we play ....There will be wins and a few streaks but that does not mean we will not be in the conversation for one of these top picks....

Also gotta look at Boucher who had 22 points shot 7-13 and 3-8 from 3....That production is not likely to keep up and whenever Boucher has these kind of games we tend to win more time than not...Can look at the Kings game we won Boucher also had this kind of a game....Also Barrett vs the T-Wolves went pretty much perfect and had 31 points...That will not happen every game as well...

Thats such a simplistic way if looking at what happens in a game. Looked the other way, We only shot 30% from 3 which even with our injuries is poor. We missed 10 free throws. Gradey and Ochai had a poor game, Scottie was good but it was his first game back and we can expect more from him. Davio was impactful but shot 0-4. We're still missing Quick and 2 bench guys.

[PushDaRock]

Even If you don't drop tons of top 3 picks don't pan out at all, have chronic injury issues or simply end up as no more than decent players.

Look at Philly getting Embiid and 3 and then Ben Simmons #1 and Markelle Fultz #1.

And Jahlil Okafor at #3

Marvin Bagley, James Wiseman, the list can go on really. These were all consensus picks as well so you can't even blame the teams for picking them as likely over 90% of other teams do the same.

[PushDaRock]

The difference is we have one of the best drafting FOs in the NBA.

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Jalen Suggs was the consensus #4 pick in 2021 and everyone on this board wanted to draft him. Masai took Scottie instead.

Again, this FO has a proven track record of finding the best player available at whatever spot they're picking. Masai doesn't care who the "consensus" pick is.

Sure, but he's not perfect and nobody is. Malachi Flynn over Desmond Bane for example.

[Clutch0z24]

Lol at some people thinking we are magically going to be a playoff team based off winning 2 in a row both home games against struggling teams in the NBA right now....We are 4-12....Put things in perspective...We will not go on some magical run and be a 40 win team....We will also not lose every game we play ....There will be wins and a few streaks but that does not mean we will not be in the conversation for one of these top picks....

Also gotta look at Boucher who had 22 points shot 7-13 and 3-8 from 3....That production is not likely to keep up and whenever Boucher has these kind of games we tend to win more time than not...Can look at the Kings game we won Boucher also had this kind of a game....Also Barrett vs the T-Wolves went pretty much perfect and had 31 points...That will not happen every game as well...

Thats such a simplistic way if looking at what happens in a game. Looked the other way, We only shot 30% from 3 which even with our injuries is poor. We missed 10 free throws. Gradey and Ochai had a poor game, Scottie was good but it was his first game back and we can expect more from him. Davio was impactful but shot 0-4. We're still missing Quick and 2 bench guys.

Yeah im talking about consistency....RJ as good as he can be he is not going to have nights where he is damn near perfect from the field....And i am saying even if guys have good games or poor games....If Boucher has one of them nights where he gives you 22 points with the production of other starters you are most likely winning that game...

The nights where Boucher struggles and you get minimal production from the bench we lose....Now can you depend on Boucher to have big games like he did vs the Timberwolves on the regular? Prolly not....Im just saying yeah we can be a good team when things go our way but it won't be like that all year long thats why we are 4-12 and a team that will be picking in lottery....

Will Masai make trades if we are too far gone come the trade deadline more than likely....You will see guys like Boucher/Kelly/Brown Shipped out...Also guys won't stay healthy for the rest of the season there will be another injury at some point in the season.

[Raps in 4]

Ben Simmons was looking absolutely fine for #1 overall for years after the draft. Fultz was pretty close to a consensus #1 pick, if not most still would have thought he was great at 2 or 3. This entire board wanted to tank for Andrew Wiggins. The draft is unpredictable at the top and nobody is infallible.

Jalen Suggs was the consensus #4 pick in 2021 and everyone on this board wanted to draft him. Masai took Scottie instead.

Again, this FO has a proven track record of finding the best player available at whatever spot they're picking. Masai doesn't care who the "consensus" pick is.

Sure, but he's not perfect and nobody is. Malachi Flynn over Desmond Bane for example.

Sure, but picking the BPA late in the draft is significantly harder than at the beginning of it.

[Scase]

Lol at some people thinking we are magically going to be a playoff team based off winning 2 in a row both home games against struggling teams in the NBA right now....We are 4-12....Put things in perspective...We will not go on some magical run and be a 40 win team....We will also not lose every game we play ....There will be wins and a few streaks but that does not mean we will not be in the conversation for one of these top picks....

Also gotta look at Boucher who had 22 points shot 7-13 and 3-8 from 3....That production is not likely to keep up and whenever Boucher has these kind of games we tend to win more time than not...Can look at the Kings game we won Boucher also had this kind of a game....Also Barrett vs the T-Wolves went pretty much perfect and had 31 points...That will not happen every game as well...

Thats such a simplistic way if looking at what happens in a game. Looked the other way, We only shot 30% from 3 which even with our injuries is poor. We missed 10 free throws. Gradey and Ochai had a poor game, Scottie was good but it was his first game back and we can expect more from him. Davio was impactful but shot 0-4. We're still missing Quick and 2 bench guys.

This is such a pointless argument. The Wolves shot 6% below their season average FG%, and we shot 5% above ours, and we won by 5 points. Donte only shot 3/9 from 3, and Ant picked up 3 very quick fouls.

You can make up reasons why any team won or loss. You think 30% from 3 for us is "poor"? We shoot 33.8% on the season, that's literally the difference of one more made 3, 8/23 bumps us to 35%. Such a fundamental lack of understanding of basic stats, my god.