2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[Packbuckman]

Jokic has the worst number 2 among the MVPs at this point it is not even close

It’s pretty close really dame vs Murray both streaky shooters now dame finally realizing that Giannis is best player and to pass the ball. Malone vs Doc who ya got?

[AleksandarN]

Jokic has the worst number 2 among the MVPs at this point it is not even close

It’s pretty close really dame vs Murray both streaky shooters now dame finally realizing that Giannis is best player and to pass the ball. Malone vs Doc who ya got?

Dame is at least shooting better. Their defense are close to the same right now. Let just put it this way if you swapped Murray and Dame. The Nuggets would be in first no question

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic has the worst number 2 among the MVPs at this point it is not even close

It’s pretty close really dame vs Murray both streaky shooters now dame finally realizing that Giannis is best player and to pass the ball. Malone vs Doc who ya got?

Dame is at least shooting better. Their defense are close to the same right now. Let just put it this way if you swapped Murray and Dame. The Nuggets would be in first no question

Please give me Dame. If Murray and Dame are close then swap them. Bucks can take Murray.

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

[Packbuckman]

It’s pretty close really dame vs Murray both streaky shooters now dame finally realizing that Giannis is best player and to pass the ball. Malone vs Doc who ya got?

Dame is at least shooting better. Their defense are close to the same right now. Let just put it this way if you swapped Murray and Dame. The Nuggets would be in first no question

Please give me Dame. If Murray and Dame are close then swap them. Bucks can take Murray.

Dame 43% 31% from 3
Murray 41% 33% from. 3
There ant much difference my man as you think both Giannis and Jokic are playing with sub par play from their 2nd best player let’s see how season plays out.

[Wolfgang630]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

[scrabbarista]

Read on Twitter

And one baby born.

[ReasonablySober]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

Yea. Jokic's teammates are bad. Tatum is surrounded by All Stars and Olympians.

Tatum isn't remotely close to being an MVP, no matter what East Coast NBA media would love you to believe.

[Infinite Llamas]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

Tatum shot 0-10 on 3 tonight and he was an absolute non factor. His team is so stacked he doesn’t need to perform high every night to win games. It’s the biggest thing hurting his mvp case…these random off nights.

[Infinite Llamas]

Swap Edwards for Giannis on the poll

Keep KD because Phoenix looks sad without him.

[Exp0sed]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

stop it, lol

Tatum went 6-19 and 0-10 from 3 today and they still won easily. imagine what happens if Jokic shoots 6-19 then go back and see how often does Jokic have a 6-19 game

Giannis isn't playing with much around him (his only other MVP candidate comp is Jokic, in that regard) and is putting up video game numbers too. he isn't going to get MVP over either of them just because of a few extra team wins, that's ludicrous

[Mavrelous]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

stop it, lol

Tatum went 6-19 and 0-10 from 3 today and they still won easily. imagine what happens if Jokic shoots 6-19 then go back and see how often does Jokic have a 6-19 game

Giannis isn't playing with much around him (his only other MVP candidate comp is Jokic, in that regard) and is putting up video game numbers too. he isn't going to get MVP over either of them just because of a few extra team wins, that's ludicrous

I think Jokic will win the MVP this year, he's just on totally different tier from the rest of the league, and he will win enough IMO, but, he won't win if he's not top 2 seed, or he is 10 games behind Tatum or SGA.
4 in 5 is a damn high bar, and he won't get any discounts.

[Exp0sed]

I would argue moving Tatum as the lead MVP candidate. This loss put Denver slightly closer to .500.

stop it, lol

Tatum went 6-19 and 0-10 from 3 today and they still won easily. imagine what happens if Jokic shoots 6-19 then go back and see how often does Jokic have a 6-19 game

Giannis isn't playing with much around him (his only other MVP candidate comp is Jokic, in that regard) and is putting up video game numbers too. he isn't going to get MVP over either of them just because of a few extra team wins, that's ludicrous

I think Jokic will win the MVP this year, he's just on totally different tier from the rest of the league, and he will win enough IMO, but, he won't win if he's not top 2 seed, or he is 10 games behind Tatum or SGA.
4 in 5 is a damn high bar, and he won't get any discounts.

Well, i can't speak to how voters will vote only to how imo - they SHOULD vote

4 in 5 is irrelevant

Jokic missing these 3 games was huge otherwise after 20 games there would have been a consensus.

Jokic started the season basically with the best opening stretch ever and after missing 3 games, picked up right where he left off. The Nuggets are who they are, they aren't going to finish 2nd and no voter in his right mind would vote for Tatum over this version of Jokic, even if the C's have 12 more wins

Jokic was a +4 in the loss tonight as usual, voters shouldn't punish him for Murray going 4-16 from the field, that's propesrtrous

Jokic is having what is quite possibly the best statistical season ever thus far, an ultra efficient 30 pts triple double, with impact stats to boot, that's nuts..

Bro is really leading the leauge in Rebounds, Assists and 3p% (lol) and he's 4th in points on ridicilous shooting splits from the Center position...if he keeps this up no1 is gonna care if they're a 3rd or a 5th or a 6th seed, time to get real

Voters understand very well that if Jokic had say..JB, Jrue and White - that team would win 70 games and that Tatum, Murray and MPJ would be a play-in team in the West, they're not morons..

Voter fatigue does indeed set the bar higher for him but so far - he's elevated his game over that bar

[Mavrelous]

Well, i can't speak to how voters will vote only to how imo - they SHOULD vote

4 in 5 is irrelevant

Jokic missing these 3 games was huge otherwise after 20 games there would have been a consensus.

Jokic started the season basically with the best opening stretch ever and after missing 3 games, picked up right where he left off. The Nuggets are who they are, they aren't going to finish 2nd and no voter in his right mind would vote for Tatum over this version of Jokic, even if the C's have 12 more wins

Jokic was a +4 in the loss tonight as usual, voters shouldn't punish him for Murray going 4-16 from the field, that's propesrtrous

Jokic is having what is quite possibly the best statistical season ever thus far, an ultra efficient 30 pts triple double, with impact stats to boot. Bro is really leading the leauge in Rebounds, Assists and 3p% (lol) from the Center position, no1 cares if they're a 3rd or a 5th or a 6th seed

Voters understand very well that if Jokic had say..JB, Jrue and White - that team would win 70 games and that Tatum, Murray and MPJ would be a play-in team in the West, they're not morons..

Voter fatigue does indeed set the bar higher for him but so far - he's elevated his game over that bar

Everything is relevant, this is a narrative award, and it can't be isolated into one argument, Embiid won fairly in 23, but anyone voting for him again before he does a thing in the PO is out of his mind, despite it being regular season award.
Steph Curry had an insane season in 2021, led the league in EPM and scoring, finished 8th seed.
Luka last year finished with 34/9/10 and had 51 wins despite injury riddled season for his team.
Both were penalized by their record to finish the season.
LeBron in 2011 had the best statistical season and had 2nd seed, no one voted for him because the bar is very high when you break the competition and form a super team.

There is no denying Nikola Jokic is the best player in the league, but MVP award has its prestige and the more you win it, the harder it should be to win again, there is not rule book people go by to determine who the MVP should be, it's subjective and narrative driven.
That's my opinion at least, I will say that with each passing day, it's inching more and more towards certainty with the way he plays, but for those who don't remember, last year also Jokic started very strong, and later lost his lead and almost lost the award.

[Exp0sed]

[quote="Exp0sed

Everything is relevant, this is a narrative award, and it can't be isolated into one argument, Embiid won fairly in 23, but anyone voting for him again before he does a thing in the PO is out of his mind, despite it being regular season award.
Steph Curry had an insane season in 2021, led the league in EPM and scoring, finished 8th seed.
Luka last year finished with 34/9/10 and had 51 wins despite injury riddled season for his team.
Both were penalized by their record to finish the season.
LeBron in 2011 had the best statistical season and had 2nd seed, no one voted for him because the bar is very high when you break the competition and form a super team.

There is no denying Nikola Jokic is the best player in the league, but MVP award has its prestige and the more you win it, the harder it should be to win again, there is not rule book people go by to determine who the MVP should be, it's subjective and narrative driven.
That's my opinion at least, I will say that with each passing day, it's inching more and more towards certainty with the way he plays, but for those who don't remember, last year also Jokic started very strong, and later lost his lead and almost lost the award.[/quote]

Ofc, i'm only stating my opinion as you are yours and the criteria is def subjective

Curry played 64 or 63 games that season, as you well know - players don't win MVP's playing just 63 games (i mean even before the 65 games rule). had he played more the Dubs would have had undoubtedly more wins and a higher seed

It's not the "most valuable" per game award, it's a commulative award that reflects the contribution of a player to his team over the length of the regular season

Like i said missing these 3 games hurt Jokic as SGA, Tatum, Giannis etc. have had the chance to produce more and ofc, it also impacts the win column

We'll have to see how that aspect plays out

Oh and Embiid's MVP was the worst ever and wasn't based in facts or merit

LBJ was robbed in 2011, punished by the public over "the decision"


As for Jokic slowing down, i'd say that's a near certainty, what he's doing doesn't seem sustainable and challenges our perception of what's possible - it defies common sense lol but as of now, which was my main point: he hasn't slowed down yet..so he's clearly leading the race rn and as long as he keeps this up - seeding isn't going to be the deciding factor, Jokic is in uncharted territory rn.

[Mavrelous]

21 was 72 games season, 63 is equivalent to 72 games in 82 games season

[Exp0sed]

21 was 72 games season, 63 is equivalent to 72 games in 82 games season

That's true, how the time flies I forgot that was the "pandemic" season. in any event, Jokic played in all 72 games

he had 26.5\11\8 on 65 TS%, played all 72 games

Curry had 32\5.5\6 pn 65.5 TS% and played 63 games which means Jokic played 14% more games. so in summation,1.) Jokic was better per game (unless you percieve PPG as the end all be all and I imagine you don't). 2.) he played significantly more games

as a result of 1+2, he led his team to more wins and a better seed. Curry had no argument whatsoever that season over Jokic and being an 8th seed was def a part of that picture but not a huge part

let's say Curry had averaged 40 and 10 assists on insane splits that season and played the same amount of games as Jokic but the team around him kinda sucked and they ended up 8th - he would have gotten the MVP, regardless of finishing 8th

that's a more accurate (hypotethical) comp\analogy imo

[WarriorGM]

21 was 72 games season, 63 is equivalent to 72 games in 82 games season

That's true, how the time flies I forgot that was the "pandemic" season. in any event, Jokic played in all 72 games

he had 26.5\11\8 on 65 TS%, played all 72 games

Curry had 32\5.5\6 pn 65.5 TS% and played 63 games which means Jokic played 14% more games. so in summation,1.) Jokic was better per game (unless you percieve PPG as the end all be all and I imagine you don't). 2.) he played significantly more games

as a result of 1+2, he led his team to more wins and a better seed. Curry had no argument whatsoever that season over Jokic and being an 8th seed was def a part of that picture but not a huge part

let's say Curry had averaged 40 and 10 assists on insane splits that season and played the same amount of games as Jokic but the team around him kinda sucked and they ended up 8th - he would have gotten the MVP, regardless of finishing 8th

that's a more accurate (hypotethical) comp\analogy imo

The team that Curry played on was literally last the year prior. If we are going by the argument of raising a bad team that has been used multiple times by Jokic fans then and since Curry had the better case.

Curry was better (unless you perceive box score as the end all be all and I imagine you don't) at least by EPM. Curry was also the one being watched playing in like 5 of the top 10 viewed games that season.

[Infinite Llamas]

In any case, i really think guys like Tatum/Mitchell/Giannis will face an uphill battle when it comes to MVP based on the sad state of the East right now. For instance, Milwaukee right now is 6th in the east but I the west they would be 14th.

So many poor teams in the east while the west is a bloodbath.

[MavsDirk41]

Well, i can't speak to how voters will vote only to how imo - they SHOULD vote

4 in 5 is irrelevant

Jokic missing these 3 games was huge otherwise after 20 games there would have been a consensus.

Jokic started the season basically with the best opening stretch ever and after missing 3 games, picked up right where he left off. The Nuggets are who they are, they aren't going to finish 2nd and no voter in his right mind would vote for Tatum over this version of Jokic, even if the C's have 12 more wins

Jokic was a +4 in the loss tonight as usual, voters shouldn't punish him for Murray going 4-16 from the field, that's propesrtrous

Jokic is having what is quite possibly the best statistical season ever thus far, an ultra efficient 30 pts triple double, with impact stats to boot. Bro is really leading the leauge in Rebounds, Assists and 3p% (lol) from the Center position, no1 cares if they're a 3rd or a 5th or a 6th seed

Voters understand very well that if Jokic had say..JB, Jrue and White - that team would win 70 games and that Tatum, Murray and MPJ would be a play-in team in the West, they're not morons..

Voter fatigue does indeed set the bar higher for him but so far - he's elevated his game over that bar

Everything is relevant, this is a narrative award, and it can't be isolated into one argument, Embiid won fairly in 23, but anyone voting for him again before he does a thing in the PO is out of his mind, despite it being regular season award.
Steph Curry had an insane season in 2021, led the league in EPM and scoring, finished 8th seed.
Luka last year finished with 34/9/10 and had 51 wins despite injury riddled season for his team.
Both were penalized by their record to finish the season.
LeBron in 2011 had the best statistical season and had 2nd seed, no one voted for him because the bar is very high when you break the competition and form a super team.

There is no denying Nikola Jokic is the best player in the league, but MVP award has its prestige and the more you win it, the harder it should be to win again, there is not rule book people go by to determine who the MVP should be, it's subjective and narrative driven.
That's my opinion at least, I will say that with each passing day, it's inching more and more towards certainty with the way he plays, but for those who don't remember, last year also Jokic started very strong, and later lost his lead and almost lost the award.

You keep bringing up Lebron James in 2011 but do you not realize he was playing with 2 all star teammates? Wade was 2nd all nba team, 7th in mvp voting, and had similar numbers to James that year. What other mvp candidate can say they played with that much talent?