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Official RJ Barrett Thread

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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1941 » by mdenny » Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:05 am

tsherkin wrote:
mtcan wrote:I personally am enjoying the RJ experience so far. I also feel that we should turn the page on the NY experience because his style of play as a Knick is so vastly different than how he is being used in Toronto.


I agree. There was a contextual difference in how he was used with us last year than how he was in New York, so we can't JUST look at New York, for sure. And this year until basically this last game, he hasn't had the same sort of roster context, so we can't look at the results relative to last year because it's just not the same, for sure.

What we are seeing though...is that, what we are seeing with these 30+ point games with 5+ assists and good efficiency...it's reproducible and hopefully we see this sort of consistency build as he continues on in Toronto.


How do you define "reproducible?" He's shot 55% or higher in 4 of his 5 30+-point games... and 60%+ in 3 of them (71.4% in the peak one). And in the other, he shot 38.5%. And he had to draw 11+ FTA in 4 of them. Something to consider.

mdenny wrote:
"A decade is a small sample size" lol.

Should I have gone back 20 years? Because I bet the results would be the same.


That would have been a much more meaningful sample, but even then. Things ebb and flow, because that's how talent works.

___________

This is just ridiculous. A decade of results isn't a meaningful data set because of ebb and flow? This point you're making borders on disqualification in terms of your credibility in assessing data.

Also...I've never seen someone try to minimize a player's performance because "he had to draw fouls" to do it.

RJ is our best free throw merchant. It's a viable skill and every good team needs a guy who does it well.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1942 » by Scase » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:18 am

Tripod wrote:Aaron Gordon? The guy who's career high in points in 17.6?

17.6 ranks as RJ's worst PPG season excluding his rookie season. He has 5 seasons of 17.6 PPG or more out of 6 years.

Aaron Gordon is underselling him.

You need to work on your comprehension. I never made any sort of analogue to their performance on the court from a numbers perspective, I said pecking order as an offensive option on the floor.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1943 » by TheRealDeal » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:36 am

Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=8Evds9QVC4TEL0DTgBuPLg

I still don’t understand how Masai pulled this off. We’re just scratching the surface with IQ too
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1944 » by MEDIC » Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:06 pm

deck wrote:
MiamiSPX wrote:I hate admitting with that drunk Scottie hater, but RJ is only 13 months older than Barnes. And yet the sky is the limit for Barnes and RJ is absolutely a finished product. It's irrational.


There is an unfounded argument that gets brought up on the board sometimes that tenure is more important than age. I would concede to some extent that given we have seen 5 years of RJ as a player, we know more about his game. But I think it is a mistake to assume that because he is in the league for 5 years, that he is done improving. In most other professions, being both young and having experience would be a virtue. People conflate the unknown of a less tenured player with them having more potential, which doesn't seem right to me.

I think it is easy to loose perspective on how young these players are. Confidence is huge in sports, and RJ may just be hitting the point now where he is comfortable with who he is.


I would argue that RJ's game looks a lot different (in a good way) than it did in NY. You can call it "growth", you can call it "maturity". you can call it "fit", you can call it "system" & you can call it "change of scenery". The truth is it's probably a bit of all of those things. His game has improved as a Raptor & he looks like a different player. His numbers are up across the board & if he can maintain these raw numbers, he probably makes the all-star team this season.

24 - 6 - 6 are undoubtedly all-star level #'s. I am guessing his 3pt% will continue to creep up now that Scottie is back & he starts to get more open catch and shoot 3's. He is getting to the line at a high rate. Hopefully his FT % will start to creep up as well.

Scoring, Rebounding, Assists & FTA are all career highs right now.

Scottie.....I haven't seen any drastic improvements. In his 4th season, he looks mostly like the same player he was when he was drafted. His 3 point shot might be slightly better, but even that hasn't been reliable. I am hoping that changes over the next 2 seasons, but if it doesn't he is still a very good player & possibly the most important player on this team.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1945 » by ash_k » Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:22 pm

TheRealDeal wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=8Evds9QVC4TEL0DTgBuPLg

I still don’t understand how Masai pulled this off. We’re just scratching the surface with IQ too


I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1946 » by MEDIC » Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:42 pm

ash_k wrote:I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:


Yeah....didn't make sense to me either. A team rebuilding & looking for young talent, trading for a 23 year old former top 3 pick who had been averaging 20ppg his last 2 seasons......and it's not like they traded away a franchise player for him either. They traded a role player who had mentally checked out & was going to be too expensive to retain.

People are sheep. They read the narrative & just go with it.

I have been watching RJ since his high school years. He has always been very competitive, physical & had a no fear attitude.

Having said that, I do believe that the franchise didn't want to put too much pressure on RJ because he had just come from NY....had a ton of pressure there (top 3 pick in NYC) & was now going to face a different pressure coming home. I noticed that in media scrums, Masai would always make an effort to mention RJ's name last when talking about the trade. I found it interesting. I am sure it was something that was discussed between the family & the Raptors (to not start selling him as the Canadian savior). It was a smart move on their part. Let RJ settle in & prove his worth.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1947 » by ash_k » Sat Nov 23, 2024 2:58 pm

MEDIC wrote:
ash_k wrote:I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:


Yeah....didn't make sense to me either. A team rebuilding & looking for young talent, trading for a 23 year old former top 3 pick who had been averaging 20ppg his last 2 seasons......and it's not like they traded away a franchise player for him either. They traded a role player who had mentally checked out & was going to be too expensive to retain.

People are sheep. They read the narrative & just go with it.

I have been watching RJ since his high school years. He has always been very competitive, physical & had a no fear attitude.

Having said that, I do believe that the franchise didn't want to put too much pressure on RJ because he had just come from NY....had a ton of pressure there (top 3 pick in NYC) & was now going to face a different pressure coming home. I noticed that in media scrums, Masai would always make an effort to mention RJ's name last when talking about the trade. I found it interesting. I am sure it was something that was discussed between the family & the Raptors (to not start selling him as the Canadian savior). It was a smart move on their part. Let RJ settle in & prove his worth.

110% true, It has been clear that Masai has avoided putting any pressure on RJ bringing up IQ and Scottie while knowing damn well having watched the last Knicks playoff run with RJ&(the ghost of)IQ that RJ was the key get! as the younger of the two.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1948 » by Tripod » Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:21 pm

Scase wrote:
Tripod wrote:Aaron Gordon? The guy who's career high in points in 17.6?

17.6 ranks as RJ's worst PPG season excluding his rookie season. He has 5 seasons of 17.6 PPG or more out of 6 years.

Aaron Gordon is underselling him.

You need to work on your comprehension. I never made any sort of analogue to their performance on the court from a numbers perspective, I said pecking order as an offensive option on the floor.

Gordon has been behind Jokic, Murray and Porter in the pecking order and been a 14-16 point guy in Denver.

RJ can certainly be higher in any pecking order(than 4 like Gordon) since he has shown he can produce a lot more.

Seems pretty simple.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1949 » by ATLTimekeeper » Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:28 pm

RJ isn't good off the ball?

He's 10th in drive points. In the top 20 in drive points, RJ is second in C&S points to Kevin Durant.

Every single player in the top 20 in drive points is considered good, all-star or HOF bound. He's done most of this without Scottie and IQ.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1950 » by Psubs » Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:29 pm

Tripod wrote:
Scase wrote:
Tripod wrote:Aaron Gordon? The guy who's career high in points in 17.6?

17.6 ranks as RJ's worst PPG season excluding his rookie season. He has 5 seasons of 17.6 PPG or more out of 6 years.

Aaron Gordon is underselling him.

You need to work on your comprehension. I never made any sort of analogue to their performance on the court from a numbers perspective, I said pecking order as an offensive option on the floor.

Gordon has been behind Jokic, Murray and Porter in the pecking order and been a 14-16 point guy in Denver.

RJ can certainly be higher in any pecking order(than 4 like Gordon) since he has shown he can produce a lot more.

Seems pretty simple.


Tatum, Brown, Jrue, Porzingis, White

RJ can be on Jrue/Porzingis level.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1951 » by tsherkin » Sat Nov 23, 2024 4:54 pm

mdenny wrote:[
This is just ridiculous. A decade of results isn't a meaningful data set because of ebb and flow? This point you're making borders on disqualification in terms of your credibility in assessing data.


10 years. Talent comes in bunches. Making broad proclamations about the draft because of a decade sample out of nearly 8 isn't hot awesome.

Also...I've never seen someone try to minimize a player's performance because "he had to draw fouls" to do it.

RJ is our best free throw merchant. It's a viable skill and every good team needs a guy who does it well.


You missed my point, then. RJ is reasonable and above average at drawing fouls, this is true. He isn't elite at it, but he's pretty good. My point was that it basically took a dozen FTAs AND shooting 60%+ from the floor for him to score 30 points, so looking for him to be doing that on the regular, as if that's a sign of him being elite, may not be a reasonable thing to expect, depending on the frequency with which one is expecting it. You talked about those kind of performances as reproducible and attached the idea of consistency to it.

Those aren't common games, the ones which led to his 30+-point outbursts, though, so it raises some questions about that consistency and sustainability/reproducibility.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1952 » by Scase » Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:56 pm

Tripod wrote:
Scase wrote:
Tripod wrote:Aaron Gordon? The guy who's career high in points in 17.6?

17.6 ranks as RJ's worst PPG season excluding his rookie season. He has 5 seasons of 17.6 PPG or more out of 6 years.

Aaron Gordon is underselling him.

You need to work on your comprehension. I never made any sort of analogue to their performance on the court from a numbers perspective, I said pecking order as an offensive option on the floor.

Gordon has been behind Jokic, Murray and Porter in the pecking order and been a 14-16 point guy in Denver.

RJ can certainly be higher in any pecking order(than 4 like Gordon) since he has shown he can produce a lot more.

Seems pretty simple.

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1953 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:08 pm

Scase wrote:
Tripod wrote:
Scase wrote:You need to work on your comprehension. I never made any sort of analogue to their performance on the court from a numbers perspective, I said pecking order as an offensive option on the floor.

Gordon has been behind Jokic, Murray and Porter in the pecking order and been a 14-16 point guy in Denver.

RJ can certainly be higher in any pecking order(than 4 like Gordon) since he has shown he can produce a lot more.

Seems pretty simple.

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.


Aaron Gordon (at 24 years old, also on a tanking team) averaged 14ppg , 8rpg, 4pg (44/31/67 splits)

RJ (at 24 years old, on a tanking team) is averaging 24ppg, 7rpg, 6apg (44/34/72 splits)


So as you said, RJ has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

Then it's pretty ignorant to suggest that he wouldn't produce more on a high ceiling team.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1954 » by ash_k » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:11 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Scase wrote:
Tripod wrote:Gordon has been behind Jokic, Murray and Porter in the pecking order and been a 14-16 point guy in Denver.

RJ can certainly be higher in any pecking order(than 4 like Gordon) since he has shown he can produce a lot more.

Seems pretty simple.

He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.


Aaron Gordon (at 24 years old, also on a tanking team) averaged 14ppg , 8rpg, 4pg (44/31/67 splits)

RJ (at 24 years old, on a tanking team) is averaging 24ppg, 7rpg, 6apg (44/34/72 splits)


So as you said, RJ has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

Then it's pretty ignorant to suggest that he wouldn't produce more on a high ceiling team.

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1955 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:13 pm

ash_k wrote:
TheRealDeal wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=8Evds9QVC4TEL0DTgBuPLg

I still don’t understand how Masai pulled this off. We’re just scratching the surface with IQ too


I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:


I was definitely more excited about RJ and had been hoping the Raps would acquire him for years (backed up by my post history).

With that being said, people had every reason to be more excited about IQ. He put up star-like numbers as a starter in New York, when Brunson went down. He was also the younger player and has more upside.

RJ on the other hand, was a player in desperate need of a change of scenery and majority of Knicks fans had given up on his development because he wasn't really making any more strides.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1956 » by Tripod » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:39 pm

ash_k wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Scase wrote:He has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

What is so hard to understand here, he would be Aaron Gordon level on a high ceiling team.


Aaron Gordon (at 24 years old, also on a tanking team) averaged 14ppg , 8rpg, 4pg (44/31/67 splits)

RJ (at 24 years old, on a tanking team) is averaging 24ppg, 7rpg, 6apg (44/34/72 splits)


So as you said, RJ has shown he can produce a lot more on a tanking team.

Then it's pretty ignorant to suggest that he wouldn't produce more on a high ceiling team.

Especially when the same RJ went into game 6 of the Eastern Conference SEMI-FINALS averaging 22.8ppg 5.2rbs 47FG%! at ust 22 years old. That poster just has no idea what is posting about.

Looks like I don't need to bother responding to him since you 2 handed him his lunch.

:lol:
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1957 » by ash_k » Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:42 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
ash_k wrote:
TheRealDeal wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=8Evds9QVC4TEL0DTgBuPLg

I still don’t understand how Masai pulled this off. We’re just scratching the surface with IQ too


I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:


I was definitely more excited about RJ and had been hoping the Raps would acquire him for years (backed up by my post history).

With that being said, people had every reason to be more excited about IQ. He put up star-like numbers as a starter in New York, when Brunson went down. He was also the younger player and has more upside.

RJ on the other hand, was a player in desperate need of a change of scenery and majority of Knicks fans had given up on his development because he wasn't really making any more strides.

As a huge OG fan, the deal remains a steal getting two such talented players even though both teams have benefited ..my only problem with IQ has been his last playoffs appearances choked which is the reason I was hoping we would make the play-in/playoffs last season before committing to him like we did.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1958 » by MEDIC » Sat Nov 23, 2024 8:48 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
ash_k wrote:
TheRealDeal wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=46&t=8Evds9QVC4TEL0DTgBuPLg

I still don’t understand how Masai pulled this off. We’re just scratching the surface with IQ too


I still don't understand (I guess I kind of do now, people don't watch games! just look at analytics) why fans except a few were more excited about IQ than RJ...even calling RJ a "throw-in" :lol: :lol:


I was definitely more excited about RJ and had been hoping the Raps would acquire him for years (backed up by my post history).

With that being said, people had every reason to be more excited about IQ. He put up star-like numbers as a starter in New York, when Brunson went down. He was also the younger player and has more upside.

RJ on the other hand, was a player in desperate need of a change of scenery and majority of Knicks fans had given up on his development because he wasn't really making any more strides.


Who was the younger player?

I am quite confident that the vast majority of posters on this board didn't really pay much attention to RJ or IQ's careers before the trade & just followed whatever narrative came from NY.
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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1959 » by canada_dry » Sat Nov 23, 2024 10:01 pm

How this is going to go is so very predictable.

the teams gonna get healthy. RJ will play the role he was meant to as a 2nd or 3rd option when we traded for him, as a result most likely look closer to the player he was for us last year with comparable efficiency. At the very least not this high usage low efficiency guy hes been forced to be so far this season on an unhealthy team. Then guys will come here, clown on Scase for being wrong, and Scase will wonder out loud why he's being clowned on for having a "perfectly reasonable take". :)

Book it. Come back to this (if we ever get **** healthy again).

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Re: Official RJ Barrett Thread 

Post#1960 » by JShuttlesworth » Sat Nov 23, 2024 10:07 pm

RJ quietly scored his 1000th point as a Raptor in just his 45th game, not a bad start for him

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