PG: Knicks vs Jazz

[NiceLikeChrist]

Seeing Brunson get the switch to Kessler and do a million head fakes, hesitations, herky jerky moves just to go nowhere and pass it up

Man it’s so easy to defend most of the guys in the league if you play disciplined and don’t jump. Wish I was 6’8

[The KnicksFix]

We need more defensive stoppers. Cant have three defensive holes in the starting lineup in JB, KAT, and Hart. Even two is bad. Precious, where art though?

I think the starting lineup needs to be
JB deuce og KAT Mitch

bench needs to be
Payne Mikal hart precious sims/hukporti

It’s that simple it balances the starting lineup with three defensive players wit deuce og and Mitch. Then four offensive players with jb deuce og KAT

But this dumba** coach won’t make a change so who cares.

[The KnicksFix]

No communication on defense. None at all.

[The KnicksFix]

Such a downer tonight after being on a high after the Suns game and winning streak. Something needs to change

We need our bench back. Thibs is gonna Thibs but, Deuce/Precious will make a difference. Eventually Mitch will be back as well. We just don't have a full team yet. Thibs just isn't gonna trust the rookies.

Deuce/Payne/Precious/Mitch with Sims/Dadiet in the wings. I'm gonna remain calm until then.

Idunno bro. When tasked with this starting 5 we do NOT play defense. The discipline isn’t there ln defense and Mikal is sloppy sloppy sloppy. I think it’s got to be deuce to start, Mikal and Hart, to the bench with KAT and Mitch or precious at the 5

This is horrible defense to watch.

[WaltFrazier]

Such a downer tonight after being on a high after the Suns game and winning streak. Something needs to change

We need our bench back. Thibs is gonna Thibs but, Deuce/Precious will make a difference. Eventually Mitch will be back as well. We just don't have a full team yet. Thibs just isn't gonna trust the rookies.

Deuce/Payne/Precious/Mitch with Sims/Dadiet in the wings. I'm gonna remain calm until then.

I can't wait for them to get back, too. But then we haven't had a starter miss a game yet. One of those injuries would really hurt.

[Nazrmohamed]

We need more defensive stoppers. Cant have three defensive holes in the starting lineup in JB, KAT, and Hart. Even two is bad. Precious, where art though?

I think the starting lineup needs to be
JB deuce og KAT Mitch

bench needs to be
Payne Mikal hart precious sims/hukporti

It’s that simple it balances the starting lineup with three defensive players wit deuce og and Mitch. Then four offensive players with jb deuce og KAT

But this dumba** coach won’t make a change so who cares.

Then fire Leon, cuz he blew a superstars war chest for a backup wing

[The KnicksFix]

We need more defensive stoppers. Cant have three defensive holes in the starting lineup in JB, KAT, and Hart. Even two is bad. Precious, where art though?

I think the starting lineup needs to be
JB deuce og KAT Mitch

bench needs to be
Payne Mikal hart precious sims/hukporti

It’s that simple it balances the starting lineup with three defensive players wit deuce og and Mitch. Then four offensive players with jb deuce og KAT

But this dumba** coach won’t make a change so who cares.

Then fire Leon, cuz he blew a superstars war chest for a backup wing

I don’t know what to say about Mikal man. The dood hasn’t touched 25 points in a game. And hasn’t played a lick of defense. He’s fcken horrible on pick and roll and somehow always ends up behind his players on the pick in jail

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I think your bein a little rough on him...prior to this game he had 6 straight games of 50% or better from the floor.

he had a bad game so did brunson and KAT. We had guys that were -30 +/- tonight.

I don't care about his FG% if he's not making high volume threes on good efficiency and not getting to the line. He shot 33% from three over that stretch, we didn't trade for him to be a poor man's DeMar DeRozan, we got him to be an elite 3 point shooter and defender, he's been neither.

And I will be very harsh with him considering what it took to get him and how thirsty he was to be here.

He's never been an elite 3 pt shooter tho. Great from the corners but only shot over 39% once in his career and he never was a high volume guy in PHX either. Never like +2 3pt made until he got to Brooklyn and then he became more of a league avg shooter with higher volume.

I thought he was turning the corner defensively recently. So much more impact but today they energy just wasn't there all around.

I think the trade was made because he was a connector type piece. Obviously the nova connection played a part. But if you were just looking for 3pt shooting and ok defense Cam Johnson probably would have been better.

What Mikal brings is more secondary playmaker and in theory higher level defender.

Also his contract played a part too since we basically didn't have to trade any rotation player to acquire so the contract fit into the new CBA.

Also his durability is a factor. Like Paul George is a better player but he's not on the court anymore for a lot of games. In a league where durability is a concern for nearly every team. Bridges can be counted on.

So yes in a silo I dont think he individually will live up to the trade value. It's our team success that will determine if it was a good trade or not.

There were only 14 guys last season that made 220 threes on 37% or better, he was on par with Michael Porter and Buddy Hield as a shoot last season, he was elite. You don't give up the type of package we did for the production he's giving, it doesn't matter what the nova connection is we've seen that with Donte that doesn't mean as much as people think.

We're getting neither good defense or 3 point shooting, the middies are borderline pointless since he doesn't get to the line or to the rim. He's shooting 30% from three right now, we're quickly approaching a point where guys are going to give soft closeouts on him and just play him for the middie if he's not in the corner because he's not going to take it to the rim either.

He has been objectively bad, he's shooting worse now than he did his rookie season. It's not harsh at all to expect a lot more from him, the guy was traded for a superstar package, and he can't even hit 20ppg.

[The KnicksFix]

I don't care about his FG% if he's not making high volume threes on good efficiency and not getting to the line. He shot 33% from three over that stretch, we didn't trade for him to be a poor man's DeMar DeRozan, we got him to be an elite 3 point shooter and defender, he's been neither.

And I will be very harsh with him considering what it took to get him and how thirsty he was to be here.

He's never been an elite 3 pt shooter tho. Great from the corners but only shot over 39% once in his career and he never was a high volume guy in PHX either. Never like +2 3pt made until he got to Brooklyn and then he became more of a league avg shooter with higher volume.

I thought he was turning the corner defensively recently. So much more impact but today they energy just wasn't there all around.

I think the trade was made because he was a connector type piece. Obviously the nova connection played a part. But if you were just looking for 3pt shooting and ok defense Cam Johnson probably would have been better.

What Mikal brings is more secondary playmaker and in theory higher level defender.

Also his contract played a part too since we basically didn't have to trade any rotation player to acquire so the contract fit into the new CBA.

Also his durability is a factor. Like Paul George is a better player but he's not on the court anymore for a lot of games. In a league where durability is a concern for nearly every team. Bridges can be counted on.

So yes in a silo I dont think he individually will live up to the trade value. It's our team success that will determine if it was a good trade or not.

There were only 14 guys last season that made 220 threes on 37% or better, he was on par with Michael Porter and Buddy Hield as a shoot last season, he was elite. You don't give up the type of package we did for the production he's giving, it doesn't matter what the nova connection is we've seen that with Donte that doesn't mean as much as people think.

We're getting neither good defense or 3 point shooting, the middies are borderline pointless since he doesn't get to the line or to the rim. He's shooting 30% from three right now, we're quickly approaching a point where guys are going to give soft closeouts on him and just play him for the middie if he's not in the corner because he's not going to take it to the rim either.

He has been objectively bad, he's shooting worse now than he did his rookie season. It's not harsh at all to expect a lot more from him, the guy was traded for a superstar package, and he can't even hit 20ppg.

This dood is getting BLITZED on the pick and roll. He so skinny he’s just getting bumped out. Then when he recovers he’s in jail playing BEHIND the ball handler. His rotations are sloppy. His closets aren’t hard. His shot is t falling. If thibs had any balls, he’d bench Mikal and start deuce.

[G_K_F]

The Mikal Bridges trade might have destroyed the franchise hopes of a championship. Early still, but it doesn’t look too good. He’s been trash.

You can’t give up all your assets for a role player and have one of, if not the worst, benches in the entire league along with porous defense.

[mpharris36]

I don't care about his FG% if he's not making high volume threes on good efficiency and not getting to the line. He shot 33% from three over that stretch, we didn't trade for him to be a poor man's DeMar DeRozan, we got him to be an elite 3 point shooter and defender, he's been neither.

And I will be very harsh with him considering what it took to get him and how thirsty he was to be here.

He's never been an elite 3 pt shooter tho. Great from the corners but only shot over 39% once in his career and he never was a high volume guy in PHX either. Never like +2 3pt made until he got to Brooklyn and then he became more of a league avg shooter with higher volume.

I thought he was turning the corner defensively recently. So much more impact but today they energy just wasn't there all around.

I think the trade was made because he was a connector type piece. Obviously the nova connection played a part. But if you were just looking for 3pt shooting and ok defense Cam Johnson probably would have been better.

What Mikal brings is more secondary playmaker and in theory higher level defender.

Also his contract played a part too since we basically didn't have to trade any rotation player to acquire so the contract fit into the new CBA.

Also his durability is a factor. Like Paul George is a better player but he's not on the court anymore for a lot of games. In a league where durability is a concern for nearly every team. Bridges can be counted on.

So yes in a silo I dont think he individually will live up to the trade value. It's our team success that will determine if it was a good trade or not.

There were only 14 guys last season that made 220 threes on 37% or better, he was on par with Michael Porter and Buddy Hield as a shoot last season, he was elite. You don't give up the type of package we did for the production he's giving, it doesn't matter what the nova connection is we've seen that with Donte that doesn't mean as much as people think.

We're getting neither good defense or 3 point shooting, the middies are borderline pointless since he doesn't get to the line or to the rim. He's shooting 30% from three right now, we're quickly approaching a point where guys are going to give soft closeouts on him and just play him for the middie if he's not in the corner because he's not going to take it to the rim either.

He has been objectively bad, he's shooting worse now than he did his rookie season. It's not harsh at all to expect a lot more from him, the guy was traded for a superstar package, and he can't even hit 20ppg.

That is just last year tho. MPJ had his worst shooting year of his career and Hield was looking kinda washed.

Over there careers and even if you just asked someone no one would ever compare MPJ or Hield level shooter to Mikal's ability. Mikal kinda a jack of all trades type but master of none. He has a good mid range...he's really good from the corners, good cutter and has a little more on ball ability then the guys mentioned above.

What typically has always set him apart from MPJ and Hield types is his two-way ability.

I wasn't even expecting 20ppg this year from him. Not with Brunson and KAT on the team...those guys are going to get theres way more than Mikal. Think about Bosh taking the 3rd scoring role and he was a far more dynamic offensive player than Mikal and he never scored over 20 ppg on those heat teams.

The value for him is he won't upset the apple card, he will be a good fit in the locker room, he will do what is needed and he is durable. He also will get 16-18 ppg and play good defense.

Now the defense is more of a concern for me than the shooting. If he was playing anyhwere near the PHX level defense I would care would he was shooting to be honest. Because I think the shooting will eventually come back to a respectable level. His work ethic is too good.

But again if the defense will never get back to a difference making level then you question the value you gave up because if you wanted 20 ppg 3rd banana you could have gotten that in a lot of different places that wouldn't have cost that package. Hell you could have just kept Donte to score about 16 ppg with probably more spacing. The issue was Donte was a sucky defender with no length...so he wasn't going to be able to guard the Jaylen Brown/Tatums of the word when Mikal (in theory should be able to do).

Now the acquisition of Mikal and his length versatility is not as valuable is stubborn thibs is going to just try to run a drop and recover type system.

You get dynamic wings to switch. If you aren't going to switch, whats the f*cking point of all this? The acquisition of KAT was to bring him in to play the 5 and modernize our roster.

Mikal is not playing well, I 100% agree with you but I don't think the coach is doing the roster or team any favors.

[The KnicksFix]

So I’m watching the game back now since I dvr’ed it
Was watching on my phone earlier since I was out with my girl and what I’m noticing at least thru the first half as I’m playing and replaying the times we were scored on.
It’s hart that’s getting beat at the three point line. Then if he gets picked off he’s a step slow forcing kat to help. Once the roll man sees this, he’s dishing off to the pick man, and hart is slow to recover there too.
Defensively, the weakest link at least thru the first half, is hart

[spree2kawhi]

Colin looked like he had tons of Sex his swag was off the roof even wanted to fight KAT

John killed us in 1st q, then Colin and Lauri killed us...

Even as we're rated among league leaders offensively, ppg and apg FG%, I'm not buying this offense... ball movement doesn't feel "sincere"... just doesn't feel organic... 3-4 players are stationary, 1-2 passes are made to "a scorer of this possession", be it OG, JB, Mikal... then he goes to work and other 4 guys just ball watching with minimal - non existent off ball movement, cutting, etc...

Can we somehow get Divo back?? I'm sure he at SG instead of Hart would solve our problems, just as I'm sure his struggles with Wolves will stop if he somehow comes back here

Mitch, Dadiet and Achiuwa (and Kolek and …) for Sexton and Kessler?

[spree2kawhi]

So I’m watching the game back now since I dvr’ed it
Was watching on my phone earlier since I was out with my girl and what I’m noticing at least thru the first half as I’m playing and replaying the times we were scored on.
It’s hart that’s getting beat at the three point line. Then if he gets picked off he’s a step slow forcing kat to help. Once the roll man sees this, he’s dishing off to the pick man, and hart is slow to recover there too.
Defensively, the weakest link at least thru the first half, is hart

If I’m the opposition, I’m forcing a 6‘4 PF to switch into the rolling big in the PnR… and if he doesn’t switch, I’m probably looking at two good shots.

[gavran]

Watching this game made my balls shrink.

[The KnicksFix]

*double post*

[The KnicksFix]

So I’m watching the game back now since I dvr’ed it
Was watching on my phone earlier since I was out with my girl and what I’m noticing at least thru the first half as I’m playing and replaying the times we were scored on.
It’s hart that’s getting beat at the three point line. Then if he gets picked off he’s a step slow forcing kat to help. Once the roll man sees this, he’s dishing off to the pick man, and hart is slow to recover there too.
Defensively, the weakest link at least thru the first half, is hart

If I’m the opposition, I’m forcing a 6‘4 PF to switch into the rolling big in the PnR… and if he doesn’t switch, I’m probably looking at two good shots.

Exactly. And as much as I’m getting on Mikal, he’s actually making life difficult whenever the opposition penetrates. It’s on the pick and roll that he’s getting abused out on the perimeter.

The fix for this is simple. As much as hart does all the little things, aka pushing the tempo and rebounding, his defense is a huge liability. I would take him out of the starting lineup and keep JB, deuce, OG, KAT, and precious/mitch. Precious or Mitch in the starting lineup doesn’t matter, they’ll basically do the same job of protecting the paint. If we make this change, we’re now sliding OG to Hart’s position, KAT to og’s position, and Mitch or precious qr kat’s. These adjustments have to be made because a bench of hart, Payne, Mikal and precious/ Mitch is still tough.

These simple changes will help a few things,

1. You’re putting two 7 footers in the paint with KAT or Mitch/ precious. If KAT gets beat on the perimeter, the opposing penetrator still has to deal with Mitch in the paint and og on weak side help.

2. Deuce is a better perimeter defender than mikal in the paint not so much, but we will now have a back line of Mitch/ precious , KAT and OG. Deuce fights over screens and slips under them without getting bumped off.

3. Deuce can ball handle and relieve the pressure from JB bringing the ball up the court which wears him down as the game progresses.

4. Payne and Mikal have a connection going on. Mikal plays better with Payne.

5. There are too many mouths to feed in the current starting lineup. Brunson is trying to get all other players in the court involved (except hart). He thrives when he’s the offensive juggernaut. By starting Mitch or Precious with deuce, you now have TWO players that don’t demand the ball as much and KAT, Brunson and OG can get to work.


Make the damn changes when the lineup starts to get healthy. And we don’t have to wait until January for Mitch. We can start with deuce and precious when they are back.

[knicks94]

When the team with Randle, iHart and Divo saw a bad team on their schedule they would give you 100%.

When this team sees a bad team on their schedule they take the night off, not realizing that all of these losses will be the difference between them winning 45 games and them winning 55 games, them being a 3rd seed and them being a 5th or 6th seed.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Thibs is gonna thibs and not switch but if you watch the screens it's only mikal who ends up devasted by them. Pacome gets back in front, OG slips through, even kolek can get over. Mikal is playing catch up defense from behind every single time and it blows my mind

[The KnicksFix]

Thibs is gonna thibs and not switch but if you watch the screens it's only mikal who ends up devasted by them. Pacome gets back in front, OG slips through, even kolek can get over. Mikal is playing catch up defense from behind every single time and it blows my mind

The screens bump him way off the play so by time he recovers he’s stuck in jail. The reason why we are keying in on him is because he’s the main point of attack. He’s the one that is the first line of defense so if he gets beat, the rest of the defense has to scramble to help. We need to switch, we can’t let him be on an island alone at the point of attack. We have to f’n switch. The purpose of having the three wings in the current lineup is to switch.

When Mitch or precious comes back to the starting lineup, I guarantee you this defense changes. Thibs refuses to switch on defense