Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[WaltFrazier]

I feel bad for JV being stuck on that terrible Wizards team.

18 points and 8 boards in 18 minutes last night. Some think Knicks may pick him up before the deadline. I hope so if they can't get a better big.

[Tripod]

Fred with 2 points on 0-2 shooting in 27 minutes

[mdenny]

Fred with 2 points on 0-2 shooting in 27 minutes

Lol. So clueless.

What is Udoka thinking? Why is Fred leading the team in minutes played on the 3 seed in the western conference?!? Is Udoka blind to my expert statistical analysis?!?

Why has this undersized shooting guard been designated the team leader/captain point guard?

The most hilarious part of this is that Fred has become one of the most traditional point guards in the entire league.

[Tripod]

Fred with 2 points on 0-2 shooting in 27 minutes

Lol. So clueless.

What is Udoka thinking? Why is Fred leading the team in minutes played on the 3 seed in the western conference?!? Is Udoka blind to my expert statistical analysis?!?

Why has this undersized shooting guard been designated the team leader/captain point guard?

The most hilarious part of this is that Fred has become one of the most traditional point guards in the entire league.

That's a lot of writing to respond to just posting info.

[mdenny]

Fred with 2 points on 0-2 shooting in 27 minutes

Lol. So clueless.

What is Udoka thinking? Why is Fred leading the team in minutes played on the 3 seed in the western conference?!? Is Udoka blind to my expert statistical analysis?!?

Why has this undersized shooting guard been designated the team leader/captain point guard?

The most hilarious part of this is that Fred has become one of the most traditional point guards in the entire league.

That's a lot of writing to respond to just posting info.

"Just posting info" lol.

Looks like there's a decent chance Fred ends up on the Bucks or Suns. If the Rockets choose to consolidate their prospects/picks, as rumored, his salary would be prime candidate to match. Which probably means he'd end up a free agent at season's end. I hope he stays with the Rockets but they DO have to consolidate at some point. And he'd have to be agreeable to a HUGE paycut to stay there.

It'll be interesting where he winds up as a free agent of they consolidate. He might become a perennial player development vet guy for up and coming teams which is hilarious given all the insanely backwards takes on him around here.

[bballsparkin]

"Just posting info" lol.

Looks like there's a decent chance Fred ends up on the Bucks or Suns. If the Rockets choose to consolidate their prospects/picks, as rumored, his salary would be prime candidate to match. Which probably means he'd end up a free agent at season's end. I hope he stays with the Rockets but they DO have to consolidate at some point. And he'd have to be agreeable to a HUGE paycut to stay there.

It'll be interesting where he winds up as a free agent of they consolidate. He might become a perennial player development vet guy for up and coming teams which is hilarious given all the insanely backwards takes on him around here.

You make fun of OG's contract but seem to brush off Fred's. They're both overpaid. OG can defend the NBA's toughest assignments. His health holds him back. Fred is undersized and streaky but he's dependable nonetheless. Which is why he gets minutes. I don't think he stays in Houston. They'll need to make room for Reed and other young players eventually. Maybe they let him expire.

[mdenny]

"Just posting info" lol.

Looks like there's a decent chance Fred ends up on the Bucks or Suns. If the Rockets choose to consolidate their prospects/picks, as rumored, his salary would be prime candidate to match. Which probably means he'd end up a free agent at season's end. I hope he stays with the Rockets but they DO have to consolidate at some point. And he'd have to be agreeable to a HUGE paycut to stay there.

It'll be interesting where he winds up as a free agent of they consolidate. He might become a perennial player development vet guy for up and coming teams which is hilarious given all the insanely backwards takes on him around here.

You make fun of OG's contract but seem to brush off Fred's. They're both overpaid. OG can defend the NBA's toughest assignments. His health holds him back. Fred is undersized and streaky but he's dependable nonetheless. Which is why he gets minutes. I don't think he stays in Houston. They'll need to make room for Reed and other young players eventually. Maybe they let him expire.

OG is clearly worth a bigger contract than Fred....but the context is completely different. Houston had no reason to have cap space in these 2 seasons. The knicks have ALOT of reasons to manage their cap space. The Rockets did not lose any players or any options going forward because of fred's contract. Plus if they spent that money on a star instead of a role player it might hinder their player development. The knicks' investment in OG is a huge commitment/decision that restricts any number of future possibilities. Including the retention of assets (like Hartenstien). So it's an apple/oranges comparison.

In fact....Fred's bloated contract is actually an asset in that it serves as matching trade bait to get a giannis or kd. (In addition to being an expiring) Houston was extremely wise to overpay Fred for two seasons rather than sign a star for 5. Their current options would be so much more limited if they had gone that route.

Fred is NOT streaky in regards to winning and losing. Houston hasn't consolidated so on any given night they are winning in completely different ways. It's Fred's job to identify how a particular game is going and spam the direction that leads to a win on that night. It could mean jalen is going for 30. It could mean alpen is getting 25/15. It could mean one of their other wing prospects is hot.

He's about as steady a point guard as exists in the league today. He is #1 in the entire league in assist-to-turnover ratio for any player that averages more than 15 mins per game. His value at this point is measured by wins and losses more than anything else. And they are winning.

[Los_29]

"Just posting info" lol.

Looks like there's a decent chance Fred ends up on the Bucks or Suns. If the Rockets choose to consolidate their prospects/picks, as rumored, his salary would be prime candidate to match. Which probably means he'd end up a free agent at season's end. I hope he stays with the Rockets but they DO have to consolidate at some point. And he'd have to be agreeable to a HUGE paycut to stay there.

It'll be interesting where he winds up as a free agent of they consolidate. He might become a perennial player development vet guy for up and coming teams which is hilarious given all the insanely backwards takes on him around here.

You make fun of OG's contract but seem to brush off Fred's. They're both overpaid. OG can defend the NBA's toughest assignments. His health holds him back. Fred is undersized and streaky but he's dependable nonetheless. Which is why he gets minutes. I don't think he stays in Houston. They'll need to make room for Reed and other young players eventually. Maybe they let him expire.

The big difference is OG is on a 5 year deal. Fred’s contract is similar to Hartenstein’s deal in that they are both paid way too much annually but they aren’t locked into long-term deals so it’s easy to get out from.

Houston is in an interesting spot because Reed isn’t ready and not sure how much of a point guard Amen is. He certainly doesn’t look like one. Fred provides a lot of stability to that team and is one of their most important players.

[bballsparkin]

^^Good points. His shot is not steady though. It fluctuates but evens out eventually. NYK's didn't believe in IQ and RJ for their team due to financial considerations. So moved on. Maybe they should have kept RJ since they moved on from Randal. Is Hartenstien really that big of a loss? I don't watch him that much but I get the feeling he's overrated. He makes like $10M more than J Allen and Purtle. I'm sorry but I'm not buying that he's better than Poeltl like many have said on here. OG will be judged by his playoff performance ultimately.

[bballsparkin]

The big difference is OG is on a 5 year deal. Fred’s contract is similar to Hartenstein’s deal in that they are both paid way too much annually but they aren’t locked into long-term deals so it’s easy to get out from.

Houston is in an interesting spot because Reed isn’t ready and not sure how much of a point guard Amen is. He certainly doesn’t look like one. Fred provides a lot of stability to that team and is one of their most important players.

That's fair. His contract is crazy. I would have gave it to him if his heart was in Toronto. I wouldn't have gave it to Fred though. Houston made sense though. I need to tune into more Rockets game I read that Amen has been impressive.

[mdenny]

^^Good points. His shot is not steady though. It fluctuates but evens out eventually. NYK's didn't believe in IQ and RJ for their team due to financial considerations. So moved on. Maybe they should have kept RJ since they moved on from Randal. Is Hartenstien really that big of a loss? I don't watch him that much but I get the feeling he's overrated. He makes like $10M more than J Allen and Purtle. I'm sorry but I'm not buying that he's better than Poeltl like many have said on here. OG will be judged by his playoff performance ultimately.

Hartenstien is just one example. If they signed OG to a reasonable role player contract they could have retained him. But there are so many more possibilities that are now impossible. They've fully committed to their current team which is fine. But if it doesn't work....they just killed their window.

Houston's window is still to be determined and they have almost limitless directions they could go in now.

[bballsparkin]

Knicks gonna Knick.

edit: it's a fun team though at least.

[FrozenLeafz]

Watch on YouTube

[ItsDanger]

[Brinbe]

freddy going through it

Read on Twitter

[WaltFrazier]

Wonder how long a suspension Fred gets. He came out of his postgame rant against Ben Taylor pretty well a few years ago, but this is different. Apparently he didn't actually contact the one ref's head but even threatening to will be regarded as very serious I assume

[mdenny]

Fred should get 2 to 3 games for that. The ref did him a favour by moving his head. Trying to find the post game interview....

[WaltFrazier]

^^Good points. His shot is not steady though. It fluctuates but evens out eventually. NYK's didn't believe in IQ and RJ for their team due to financial considerations. So moved on. Maybe they should have kept RJ since they moved on from Randal. Is Hartenstien really that big of a loss? I don't watch him that much but I get the feeling he's overrated. He makes like $10M more than J Allen and Purtle. I'm sorry but I'm not buying that he's better than Poeltl like many have said on here. OG will be judged by his playoff performance ultimately.

Hartenstein has seemed like a big loss because Mitchell Robinson is hurt. They miss his rim protection. KAT has been great, tonight's Jazz game excepted, but they need a defensive C as well.

OG has been great for the Knicks all year. 27 tonight on 10/19 shooting tonight, one of the few Knicks that showed up.

[Los_29]

I think that will be a lengthy suspension for Fred. You can’t do that stuff.

Knicks will be fine. So many bad teams in the East and they should have a relatively easy first round opponent. I think they matchup well with the Cavs but Robinson will need to be healthy. I think we can all agree that they aren’t good enough to seriously contend for a title though.

[Randle McMurphy]

Hilarious. I would love a Raptor to do something like that one day in one of the usual screwjobs against them.