Can we safely say Jokic is the best offensive player ever?

[reddyplayerone]

In the conversation but probably not considering what Wilt and Jordan did during their careers. With Joker those are arguably the top 3 tho.

Good point. Jokic is facing far stronger competition then either of those faced - especially Wilt. That's make the fact that he is head and shoulders above everybody else offensively currently way more impressive.

MJ never put together a 5 year offensive stretch like Jokic is doing. Never had an offensive year like Jokic is having. Jokic is simply on another level.

So you made up your mind and we don't need to have this conversation at all then

sounds great!

[MavsDirk41]

Offense is more than scoring. LeBron is a better offensive player than Jordan. I won’t get into the Wilt conversation because it’s just too difficult to compare.

No he isnt

Uh huh.

Do we include free throw shooting, mid range game, post game, footwork, and handles when discussing offense?

Good talk

[MavsDirk41]

In the conversation but probably not considering what Wilt and Jordan did during their careers. With Joker those are arguably the top 3 tho.

Good point. Jokic is facing far stronger competition then either of those faced - especially Wilt. That's make the fact that he is head and shoulders above everybody else offensively currently way more impressive.

MJ never put together a 5 year offensive stretch like Jokic is doing. Never had an offensive year like Jokic is having. Jokic is simply on another level.

So you made up your mind and we don't need to have this conversation at all then

sounds great!

Yea we might as well just nod our heads and say ok

[zero rings]

In the conversation but probably not considering what Wilt and Jordan did during their careers. With Joker those are arguably the top 3 tho.

Good point. Jokic is facing far stronger competition then either of those faced - especially Wilt. That's make the fact that he is head and shoulders above everybody else offensively currently way more impressive.

MJ never put together a 5 year offensive stretch like Jokic is doing. Never had an offensive year like Jokic is having. Jokic is simply on another level.

Stronger competition? Lol other than Embiid there is no other center his size and skilled. And other than Boston the league is full of parity. And year after year more players are missing time with injuries, especially star players.

And for the rest of what you said, what are you basing this off of? Offensive win shares? OBPM? Eye test? Several players can be mentioned as greatest offensive player including Jokic.

When would this not be the case? In the past 35 years, Shaq and Embiid are the only elite centers that were bigger than Jokic. Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing were 20-30 lbs lighter than him at their peaks.

We need to stop pretending like players from the past were physical giants compared to today's players. It's not true.

[MavsDirk41]

Good point. Jokic is facing far stronger competition then either of those faced - especially Wilt. That's make the fact that he is head and shoulders above everybody else offensively currently way more impressive.

MJ never put together a 5 year offensive stretch like Jokic is doing. Never had an offensive year like Jokic is having. Jokic is simply on another level.

Stronger competition? Lol other than Embiid there is no other center his size and skilled. And other than Boston the league is full of parity. And year after year more players are missing time with injuries, especially star players.

And for the rest of what you said, what are you basing this off of? Offensive win shares? OBPM? Eye test? Several players can be mentioned as greatest offensive player including Jokic.

When would this not be the case? In the past 35 years, Shaq and Embiid are the only elite centers that were bigger than Jokic. Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing were 20-30 lbs lighter than him at their peaks.

We need to stop pretending like players from the past were physical giants compared to today's players. It's not true.

Brother, im not bashing Jokic. The guy is awesome. I root for the guy unless Denver is playing Dallas. But he would have faced better competition from the center position in the 90s. He would still be awesome and dominate, but he would have faced better individual talent and size comparable to his.

[ScrantonBulls]

I'd amend my comment to say he's the "best," not necessarily the "greatest." Greatest involves more things: context within era, longevity, accomplishments, and perhaps other stuff. Best is just the best.

I completely agree with you. I changed the thread title accordingly.

[zero rings]

Stronger competition? Lol other than Embiid there is no other center his size and skilled. And other than Boston the league is full of parity. And year after year more players are missing time with injuries, especially star players.

And for the rest of what you said, what are you basing this off of? Offensive win shares? OBPM? Eye test? Several players can be mentioned as greatest offensive player including Jokic.

When would this not be the case? In the past 35 years, Shaq and Embiid are the only elite centers that were bigger than Jokic. Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing were 20-30 lbs lighter than him at their peaks.

We need to stop pretending like players from the past were physical giants compared to today's players. It's not true.

Brother, im not bashing Jokic. The guy is awesome. I root for the guy unless Denver is playing Dallas. But he would have faced better competition from the center position in the 90s. He would still be awesome and dominate, but he would have faced better individual talent and size comparable to his.

Sure, I'm just saying the players from the 90's were not bigger than they are today. This is a myth I hear repeatedly, usually to dismiss modern day bigs.

[JM00n69]

Probably the best player last 4 years and will be this year as well. That is debatable to an extent I know but even then at worst he's been top 3 those years. Early prime years atm, if he has another 4-5yrs at this level he should be in consideration for top 10AT easily if he doesn't get another ring.

Offensively a threat from anywhere to score 1-1 but his elite passing ability/quick decision making/BBIQ is just unstoppable. You really need to have a center who's mobile/long and strong enough to deal with him and then forwards that are long and quick to come help/rotate. And defensive guards that can cover the help man. Plus a coach that can plan it all. MIN last year were the perfect machup you can have against him and they still nearly lost the series. If Denver had a guard that can shoot/drive and finish/create at elite level it would be game over for the league.

Plus Jok is an elite all time rebounder on both ends. And he does it with positioning and using his body to get to the spot he needs to be. And he's probably got the best hands for a 7 footer. Touch is unreal.

[JM00n69]

Oh and been very durable so far. Availability is very important

[ReddoverKobe]

It's just silly at this point. He's currently putting up the greatest offensive season ever. Good 5 year stretch (including this year) is the greatest offensive peak ever. I'm not sure we've ever seen player who can raise a team's floor or carry a team like he can. LeBron is the other debatable one in that category. If Jokic had teams as good as the other top 10~ all time players, he has more rings.

No lol.

[Sedale Threatt]

I have no idea but his skill set continues to blow me away. Dude is averaging 30 points and 11 assists per game as a 7-foot center, while shooting 57/56/83. That is just f'ing absurd. I know I've never seen anything like him since I started watching the NBA in the late 80s and I highly, highly doubt, given the advancements in technique and coaching, that anybody before him was more skilled. Wilt, for example, wasn't bombing from long range (or the foul line, for that matter) like Jokic does.

[MavsDirk41]

When would this not be the case? In the past 35 years, Shaq and Embiid are the only elite centers that were bigger than Jokic. Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing were 20-30 lbs lighter than him at their peaks.

We need to stop pretending like players from the past were physical giants compared to today's players. It's not true.

Brother, im not bashing Jokic. The guy is awesome. I root for the guy unless Denver is playing Dallas. But he would have faced better competition from the center position in the 90s. He would still be awesome and dominate, but he would have faced better individual talent and size comparable to his.

Sure, I'm just saying the players from the 90's were not bigger than they are today. This is a myth I hear repeatedly, usually to dismiss modern day bigs.

Jokic would be great in any era. He is a generational player, future Hall of Famer, and could be top 10 all time when its all said and done.

But during the 97/97 season, which i just randomly picked, these were the bigs for the teams in the east, i didnt even include the west which would have included David Robinson and Duncan.

Mourning
Webber
Mutumbo
Ewing
Seikaly
Longley
Rik Smits
Big Z
Camby
Ratliff
Ervin Johnson

There is a difference.

[JM00n69]

When would this not be the case? In the past 35 years, Shaq and Embiid are the only elite centers that were bigger than Jokic. Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing were 20-30 lbs lighter than him at their peaks.

We need to stop pretending like players from the past were physical giants compared to today's players. It's not true.

Brother, im not bashing Jokic. The guy is awesome. I root for the guy unless Denver is playing Dallas. But he would have faced better competition from the center position in the 90s. He would still be awesome and dominate, but he would have faced better individual talent and size comparable to his.

Sure, I'm just saying the players from the 90's were not bigger than they are today. This is a myth I hear repeatedly, usually to dismiss modern day bigs.

Robinson/Ewing/Shaq/Hakeem in their prime years would all be better than any 5 this year aside Jok and would all give him significantly more trouble to be the force he is. All much more stronger that any 5 we've got now, he'd not be getting the rebounds and the quick moves from mid to low post for easy shots like he is now. And no those four in prime years were not slow to move. And they'd all be a positive match up on the other side and wear him down.

[audiosway]

No. You clearly never saw Larry Bird. Larry Legend was the first player for the 50/40/90 club in an era with hand checking and hard fouls. He would tell the opposing coaches and players what he was going to do and they still couldn't stop him.

Larry was a 3 time back to back to back MVP while Jordan, Magic, Kareem, I Thomas, and many others were in the league.

[MikeJax]

He's better and more complete than lebron (and his horrible fundamentals) ever could dream of being.

His stats are mindblowing but i don't know what's more impressive between his stats or his overal skills.

[jehosafats]

His style definitely fits his era. Though I wouldn't feel comfortable saying he's the greatest of any era.

[xchange55]

LeBron is the other debatable one in that category. If Jokic had teams as good as the other top 10~ all time players, he has more rings.

Hard to convince me Lebron can be greatest offenseive player when his carer assist to TO ratio is 2.11. That's pretty poor for a player who played point forward for much of his career. For what it's worth Jokic is 2.41, but he obviously does not play point center and has less touches.

[Sedale Threatt]

Anthony Davis struggles to handle Jokic and he’s a bigger/better defensive player than all but about two guys on that list. His numbers would be down to the glacial pace back then but otherwise he would do just fine.

[Big nick]

Hell no he isn't bird, mj and others were light years ahead of him come on man.

[Packbuckman]

In the conversation but probably not considering what Wilt and Jordan did during their careers. With Joker those are arguably the top 3 tho.

Good point. Jokic is facing far stronger competition then either of those faced - especially Wilt. That's make the fact that he is head and shoulders above everybody else offensively currently way more impressive.

MJ never put together a 5 year offensive stretch like Jokic is doing. Never had an offensive year like Jokic is having. Jokic is simply on another level.

No there is not there is hardly any big athletic centers anymore to match up with him besides Embiid but he’s always hurt. Would love to see him against The dream Shaq drob Ewing Duncan morning this league is small at the center position tall lanky players a plenty though not physical