PG: Knicks vs Jazz

[3toheadmelo]

Rim protection absolutely has an effect on letting teams go off from 3. Beyond shutting down drive and kick strategies, If there's a strong rim protector on the backend, you're going to see this team go another level defensively because our wings can actually take more risks and play closer and trust the guy behind them to pick guys up. They won't need to worry as much as getting blown past. Right now, our wings are actually our defense...they need to cover for KAT.

I actually think this is one of those games where Mitch might have made a difference, as someone who has Thibs' trust. There's always a trade-off, with Mitch clogging up the paint, but I think what we are missing right now is the ability to win dirty, especially when we look like dog-crap on offense. If we're not hitting those 3s and killing people offensively, we need to be able to grind out on defense, grab multiple offensive windows, muck the game up, etc. I really hope Mitch can return and stay healthy.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Rim protection absolutely has an effect on letting teams go off from 3. Beyond shutting down drive and kick strategies, If there's a strong rim protector on the backend, you're going to see this team go another level defensively because our wings can actually take more risks and play closer and trust the guy behind them to pick guys up. They won't need to worry as much as getting blown past. Right now, our wings are actually our defense...they need to cover for KAT.

I actually think this is one of those games where Mitch might have made a difference, as someone who has Thibs' trust. There's always a trade-off, with Mitch clogging up the paint, but I think what we are missing right now is the ability to win dirty, especially when we look like dog-crap on offense. If we're not hitting those 3s and killing people offensively, we need to be able to grind out on defense, grab multiple offensive windows, muck the game up, etc. I really hope Mitch can return and stay healthy.

We don't guard the perimeter enough at all. You're not wrong about rim protection in general but, we have had open threes killing us long before KAT got here. Our main issue in losses has absolutely NOT been rim protection. We ALWAYS hedge off the perimeter to protect the paint. It has always been a problem even in close games. Even with Shart and Mitch here.

We don't have any bench to speak of with Deuce/Payne/Precious missing plenty of games combined. It's not the rim protection costing us games. It's short rotations and wide open threes mostly.

[HEZI]

No. Boston shot at an historic level from deep against us. Not having a rim protector like Mitch is a problem because it can compound the problem of allowing too many open threes but, almost all of our losses have been due to great three point percentages at a high clip and short rotations. KAT being a poor/weak rim protector has not been the reason we lost games. Not even close.

Nah. They actually attacked him every time.

Read on Twitter

No defense against the hawks

Watch on YouTube

;t=165s

He just never puts a hand up. This has been going on forever.

Read on Twitter

Like I said before, if all of the media, fans around the league are talking about how awful he's been then there's truth to it. Our 3 point defense is gonna suffer even more because our wings are trying to help out KAT who's a liability protecting the rim.

They blew us out from the perimeter. Don't get it twisted. Even with Mitch we would lose games giving up too many threes. KAT being weak inside is not the main issue. It doesn't help but, we aren't losing games in the paint. It's all about open threes due to a weak defensive scheme and a short bench. Period.

Your criticism of KAT isn't wrong but, you're hanging on to it like it is killing us. It really isn't. We have ALL been talking about wide open three point shooting for years before he got here.

They made 19 threes
We made 17

Blew us out from the perimeter is a hyperbole. On their hottest shooting night in 2 years they made a whopping 2 threes more than we did.

Our defense was bad but offense was even worse. We had one of the worst shooting nights I can remember. 39-100 from the field.

[prophet_of_rage]

Exactly this !
We don’t switch even though we have the most switchable lineup.

How? We go 7, 6'4, 6'8, 6'6, 5'11. The only interchangeables are Mikal.and OG. Otherwise you just keep.forxing Brunson onto the best scorer.

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Who is 5'11"?

Brunson is 6'1" without shoes and 6'2.25" with them, he was at the combine.

You believe he's only 2 inches shorter than Hart? Even at 6'2 it isn't switxhable.

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[NoLayupRule]

this was a bad game best forgotten

we were intimidated inside and relied on 3s which we couldnt make
and once again our defense at the 3 point line was weak

we need to switch every single pick
brunson is the only mismatch out there. everyone else can be covered with rotation.

KAT just needs to get those hands out and work on his body position. He doesnt have to be a stopper just like Brunson doesnt.
We just need those two to funnel opponents into the other 3 who are able to lock down and rotate.

we need to knock our opponents out of their first action at least. Make them scramble a little and then we have the advantage.

[prophet_of_rage]

Is this the worst Knicks loss of the last 20 years?

No. Not even close.

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[Capn'O]

Gadfly's right and you even saw it the few minutes that Sims was in the game. We weren't worried about lobs to Kessler and others down low so our wings were gambling and getting steals. That was translating into transition offense. Conversely, you can look at how the Jazz were guarding the 3 well when Kessler was in. Their wings didn't have to worry about the paint.

Of all the adjustments Thibs hasn't made, not keeping Sims in the game was a wild one.


As 2010 and others say, if we hit our shots we probably win today but on games where you're not hitting your shots you need to be able to hang your hat on your defense to win and this team hasn't been able to do that yet.

[Clyde_Style]

I blame Buzz, he went out partying in Salt Lake City enjoying that 'sister wives' experience it effected the Knicks performance. Sad he cares more about his laziness not wanting to make game threads he doesn't want the Knicks to keep winning. Terrible person.

Seven Brides for Buzz is a heartwarming new Disney film I'm taking friends and family these holidays

[NoDopeOnSundays]

How? We go 7, 6'4, 6'8, 6'6, 5'11. The only interchangeables are Mikal.and OG. Otherwise you just keep.forxing Brunson onto the best scorer.

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Who is 5'11"?

Brunson is 6'1" without shoes and 6'2.25" with them, he was at the combine.

You believe he's only 2 inches shorter than Hart? Even at 6'2 it isn't switxhable.

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Josh is 6'5" in shoes.

There's plenty of players that are switching at 6'2" also.

[Jeff Van Gully]

this was a bad game best forgotten

we were intimidated inside and relied on 3s which we couldnt make
and once again our defense at the 3 point line was weak

we need to switch every single pick
brunson is the only mismatch out there. everyone else can be covered with rotation.

KAT just needs to get those hands out and work on his body position. He doesnt have to be a stopper just like Brunson doesnt.
We just need those two to funnel opponents into the other 3 who are able to lock down and rotate.

we need to knock our opponents out of their first action at least. Make them scramble a little and then we have the advantage.

hold on. you mean the whole season doesn't hinge on this performance?

what will i do with my narrative i have been trying to apply to every scenario?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Nah. They actually attacked him every time.

Read on Twitter

No defense against the hawks

Watch on YouTube

;t=165s

He just never puts a hand up. This has been going on forever.

Read on Twitter

Like I said before, if all of the media, fans around the league are talking about how awful he's been then there's truth to it. Our 3 point defense is gonna suffer even more because our wings are trying to help out KAT who's a liability protecting the rim.

They blew us out from the perimeter. Don't get it twisted. Even with Mitch we would lose games giving up too many threes. KAT being weak inside is not the main issue. It doesn't help but, we aren't losing games in the paint. It's all about open threes due to a weak defensive scheme and a short bench. Period.

Your criticism of KAT isn't wrong but, you're hanging on to it like it is killing us. It really isn't. We have ALL been talking about wide open three point shooting for years before he got here.

They made 19 threes
We made 17

Blew us out from the perimeter is a hyperbole. On their hottest shooting night in 2 years they made a whopping 2 threes more than we did.

Our defense was bad but offense was even worse. We had one of the worst shooting nights I can remember. 39-100 from the field.

We are talking about the Boston game.

We shot terribly this game. That alone was probably the biggest reason we lost. No one is winning games shooting 39% no matter how good the defense was.

Overall though, most of our losses came from teams shooting lights out from three and short rotations. This cannot be lost in the discussion. People pointing fingers at Mikal or at KAT being a weak rim protector have very little to do with why we are losing MOST games.

We are simply too thin off the bench and, we are a new team trying to find chemistry more than anything else. That does not change the fact that we have been giving up too many open looks from three FOR YEARS though. Some of that is coaching/scheme and some is the personnel we have had.

We need to be patient and wait for the bench to get back before we can really figure out what the problems may actually be moving forward. I expect that alone will help us win more. Right now the two biggest reasons are what I mentioned above. It's not necessarily about rim protection or Mikal having shooting woes.

[8516knicks]

People need to stop making excuses for Mikal. Did you forget what we gave up for him? If we had all of those picks, we'd be in the conversation for Giannis right now. Mikal needs to step up and play consistent good ball. I don't expect players to be perfect, but this guy has been playing his worst ball in years.

"If we had all of those picks, we'd be in the conversation for Giannis right now."

SURE --- Here's how that conversation goes --

THAT CONVERSATION-- KNICKS: "We'll give you our 5 picks and ANYTHING else you want for Giannis. Even have Dolan's band play at your Xmas party." BUCKS: "F*ck off."

[HEZI]

They blew us out from the perimeter. Don't get it twisted. Even with Mitch we would lose games giving up too many threes. KAT being weak inside is not the main issue. It doesn't help but, we aren't losing games in the paint. It's all about open threes due to a weak defensive scheme and a short bench. Period.

Your criticism of KAT isn't wrong but, you're hanging on to it like it is killing us. It really isn't. We have ALL been talking about wide open three point shooting for years before he got here.

They made 19 threes
We made 17

Blew us out from the perimeter is a hyperbole. On their hottest shooting night in 2 years they made a whopping 2 threes more than we did.

Our defense was bad but offense was even worse. We had one of the worst shooting nights I can remember. 39-100 from the field.

We are talking about the Boston game.

We shot terribly this game. That alone was probably the biggest reason we lost. No one is winning games shooting 39% no matter how good the defense was.

Overall though, most of our losses came from teams shooting lights out from three and short rotations. This cannot be lost in the discussion. People pointing fingers at Mikal or at KAT being a weak rim protector have very little to do with why we are losing MOST games.

We are simply too thin off the bench and, we are a new team trying to find chemistry more than anything else. That does not change the fact that we have been giving up too many open looks from three FOR YEARS though. Some of that is coaching/scheme and some is the personnel we have had.

We need to be patient and wait for the bench to get back before we can really figure out what the problems may actually be moving forward. I expect that alone will help us win more. Right now the two biggest reasons are what I mentioned above. It's not necessarily about rim protection or Mikal having shooting woes.

This just isn’t true though

Rockets shot 24% from 3 and we shot 39%

Hawks shot 39% and we shot better than them that game by a wide margin at 47% with 22 makes

Bulls shot 39% and that’s another game we shot better than the opponent

Cavs shot 33% and we were slightly worse at 32%

That’s 4 out of 7 losses where opponent outside shooting wasn’t the deciding factor. There have been a few other issues defensively and yes lack of paint protection is one of them. It’s not even just scheme related. You can switch all you want but when a guy will still get beat off the dribble on the switch it causes an issue. If you just allow guys to walk into the paint without resistance it’s an issue. If you struggle defending in the post it’s an issue. There have been a few issues actually and there’s enough blame to go all around.

I do agree that lack of depth doesn’t help especially when those guys could help you out defensively

[Jalen Bluntson]

They made 19 threes
We made 17

Blew us out from the perimeter is a hyperbole. On their hottest shooting night in 2 years they made a whopping 2 threes more than we did.

Our defense was bad but offense was even worse. We had one of the worst shooting nights I can remember. 39-100 from the field.

We are talking about the Boston game.

We shot terribly this game. That alone was probably the biggest reason we lost. No one is winning games shooting 39% no matter how good the defense was.

Overall though, most of our losses came from teams shooting lights out from three and short rotations. This cannot be lost in the discussion. People pointing fingers at Mikal or at KAT being a weak rim protector have very little to do with why we are losing MOST games.

We are simply too thin off the bench and, we are a new team trying to find chemistry more than anything else. That does not change the fact that we have been giving up too many open looks from three FOR YEARS though. Some of that is coaching/scheme and some is the personnel we have had.

We need to be patient and wait for the bench to get back before we can really figure out what the problems may actually be moving forward. I expect that alone will help us win more. Right now the two biggest reasons are what I mentioned above. It's not necessarily about rim protection or Mikal having shooting woes.

This just isn’t true though

Rockets shot 24% from 3 and we shot 39%

Hawks shot 39% and we shot better than them that game by a wide margin at 47% with 22 makes

Bulls shot 39% and that’s another game we shot better than the opponent

Cavs shot 33% and we were slightly worse at 32%

That’s 4 out of 7 losses where opponent outside shooting wasn’t the deciding factor. There have been a few other issues defensively and yes lack of paint protection is one of them. It’s not even just scheme related. You can switch all you want but when a guy will still get beat off the dribble on the switch it causes an issue. If you just allow guys to walk into the paint without resistance it’s an issue. If you struggle defending in the post it’s an issue. There have been a few issues actually and there’s enough blame to go all around.

I do agree that lack of depth doesn’t help especially when those guys could help you out defensively

AND short rotations. Lights out was the wrong term though. We have had a problem losing games where teams shot more threes and many were wide open for years. Not just this year. Or late in the game where threes count more than two point shots if they hit them at a decent clip. 39% is still a good percentage by the way. We can't leave teams wide open as much as we do. Not without an elite rim protector on top of it.

We are simply too thin. It's not Thibs fault outside of his willingness to make adjustments at times. We don't have enough depth to do much anyway. We could do better at keeping players fresh for the end of games though. It's not KATs rim protection costing us games by itself but he needs to be better. It's not Mikal having shooting issues all by itself but, he needa to be better. It's a combination of all of it.

Not having Deuce/Precious/Mitch is the biggest problem we have. They will help with all of the above. Period.

[The KnicksFix]

People need to stop making excuses for Mikal. Did you forget what we gave up for him? If we had all of those picks, we'd be in the conversation for Giannis right now. Mikal needs to step up and play consistent good ball. I don't expect players to be perfect, but this guy has been playing his worst ball in years.

"If we had all of those picks, we'd be in the conversation for Giannis right now."

SURE --- Here's how that conversation goes --

THAT CONVERSATION-- KNICKS: "We'll give you our 5 picks and ANYTHING else you want for Giannis. Even have Dolan's band play at your Xmas party." BUCKS: "F*ck off."

Facts. Giannis would go for the 5 picks, Julius AND Donte. And that’s too much for any one player for me. At least with our trades we got two players out of them lol

And KAT by the way picked giannis apart in their last meeting. We would have not gotten giannis for the same package we got Mikal. I don’t get why people think we would have

[spree2kawhi]

Wings trying to help out KAT because he can't protect the rim is giving up more 3's on top of that with zero rim protection. So it's not really shocking that we're terrible defensively. No scheme is gonna fix that.

No version of Randle was gonna do anything about it either.

Knicks wouldn't be playing Randle at the 5.

They may very well play Towns at the 4 depending on matchups. If you were criticizing fairly, you’d consider the injuries.

[spree2kawhi]

Gadfly's right and you even saw it the few minutes that Sims was in the game. We weren't worried about lobs to Kessler and others down low so our wings were gambling and getting steals. That was translating into transition offense. Conversely, you can look at how the Jazz were guarding the 3 well when Kessler was in. Their wings didn't have to worry about the paint.

Of all the adjustments Thibs hasn't made, not keeping Sims in the game was a wild one.


As 2010 and others say, if we hit our shots we probably win today but on games where you're not hitting your shots you need to be able to hang your hat on your defense to win and this team hasn't been able to do that yet.

This is very accurate.

[spree2kawhi]

Wings trying to help out KAT because he can't protect the rim is giving up more 3's on top of that with zero rim protection. So it's not really shocking that we're terrible defensively. No scheme is gonna fix that.

No version of Randle was gonna do anything about it either.

Knicks wouldn't be playing Randle at the 5.

Ohhh and btw even that nonsense was discussed publicly even by prominent team officials before the Towns trade. Imagine how badly we’d have sucked without KAT and both Achiuwa and Robinson out. LOL!

[spree2kawhi]

Is this the worst Knicks loss of the last 20 years?

No. Not even close.

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Yeah wtf … how could we forget those meaningless late season heroics by an unknown scrub whose name I have literally forgotten, who’d effectively ruin our lottery chances and not even make next year’s team iirc. Wasn’t it Trey Burke or even worse?

Compare that to Dallas purposely missing the playoffs in order to get in the lottery, drafting a rotational piece with what would’ve been our pick and going straight to the NBA Finals.

[prophet_of_rage]

Who is 5'11"?

Brunson is 6'1" without shoes and 6'2.25" with them, he was at the combine.

You believe he's only 2 inches shorter than Hart? Even at 6'2 it isn't switxhable.

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Josh is 6'5" in shoes.

There's plenty of players that are switching at 6'2" also.

Brunson can't guard 2 to 5, though. So you'rr switxhing ti a size mismatch for no reason.

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