2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[basketballRob]

Franz is #7 in EPM, #11 in BPM, and #6 in VORP.

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[Exp0sed]

My Mavs didnt blow out Denver the other night. We were up 20 and then Denver actually came back and took the lead in the 4th. Kidd took a timeout, we went on a 7-0 run thanks to PJ Washington and that was game. It was Jokic’s first game back after missing the previous 3 games. We have a pretty good center combo and he had his way with us like he normally does.

There is no really big physical skilled centers in the league like there use to be Embiid the only one but he’s hurt all the time. Jokic got the weight on both your centers and he uses that well against them.

I agree with you 100%! The league is small. Im 49 and started watching basketball in the late 80s. The center position nowadays is a joke compared to bigs of the past. Gafford is probably 230 and Lively is no bigger than 220.

thing is, there aren't many 270 lbs. guys who can move around as quickly and as much as needed in the modern NBA. Centers are required to regurlaly step out to the 3 point line and even higher than that, there's alot more space to cover in general and switching creates considerably more movement requirements

so..it is what it is

[Wolfgang630]

Anything to diminish Jokic for some folks by bringing up how great centers were of the past. Jahlil Okafor was that and he’s not in the NBA. Many of those old centers can’t play today. Those handful great centers can play in any era, but that’s a different conversation

[CobraCommander]

Reminded - 20% or so of the NBA season has passed and someone is avg a 30 point triple double while shooting 56-56-83.

The poll should be 100% that’s the MVP but yall out here tripping and hating and lying to yourselves

[MrBigShot]

Tatum and Giannis' names should only come up when discussing who's coming in 2nd place

[Packbuckman]

Reminded - 20% or so of the NBA season has passed and someone is avg a 30 point triple double while shooting 56-56-83.

The poll should be 100% that’s the MVP but yall out here tripping and hating and lying to yourselves

It’s a season long award is jokic leading maybe but what Giannis is doing is also historic 32-12-6.4 on 61%fg for the second year in a row that no one ever did once. While being back to a total beast on D. Let’s see how they look when they play twice this year.

[MavsDirk41]

There is no really big physical skilled centers in the league like there use to be Embiid the only one but he’s hurt all the time. Jokic got the weight on both your centers and he uses that well against them.

I agree with you 100%! The league is small. Im 49 and started watching basketball in the late 80s. The center position nowadays is a joke compared to bigs of the past. Gafford is probably 230 and Lively is no bigger than 220.

thing is, there aren't many 270 lbs. guys who can move around as quickly and as much as needed in the modern NBA. Centers are required to regurlaly step out to the 3 point line and even higher than that, there's alot more space to cover in general and switching creates considerably more movement requirements

so..it is what it is

I agree with everything you said. Just saying that Jokic would havd had to battle bigger guys in the paint in the 90s. He would still be great, but he would have faced better individual competition.

[Jaqua92]

Reminded - 20% or so of the NBA season has passed and someone is avg a 30 point triple double while shooting 56-56-83.

The poll should be 100% that’s the MVP but yall out here tripping and hating and lying to yourselves

It’s a season long award is jokic leading maybe but what Giannis is doing is also historic 32-12-6.4 on 61%fg for the second year in a row that no one ever did once. While being back to a total beast on D. Let’s see how they look when they play twice this year.

Giannis has not been a total beast on D

Jokic has been much better and the data supports it

[Jaqua92]

Jokic would be one of the biggest centers in any era, and he's more skilled offensively than anyone of them.

[Packbuckman]

Reminded - 20% or so of the NBA season has passed and someone is avg a 30 point triple double while shooting 56-56-83.

The poll should be 100% that’s the MVP but yall out here tripping and hating and lying to yourselves

It’s a season long award is jokic leading maybe but what Giannis is doing is also historic 32-12-6.4 on 61%fg for the second year in a row that no one ever did once. While being back to a total beast on D. Let’s see how they look when they play twice this year.

Giannis has not been a total beast on D

Jokic has been much better and the data supports it

[DCasey91]

Guarding Jokic is eerily similar to Lebron. Clog the lanes, have 1 front and up to two blockers, make them hit tough midrange shots or 3's, flatline the passing creation more.

Jokic can be exposed more on accountability on defence through sheer fast rim running and pnr play... But so is other ATG bigs when brought out there or moving them out of position constantly.

Jokic trumps Bron on pure shooting everywhere, size and passing but basically what I'm saying is Jokic is the best player in the comp and will be for the foreseeable future.

This could be the best offensive season ever. Would it surprise me? Nope.

[Jaqua92]

It’s a season long award is jokic leading maybe but what Giannis is doing is also historic 32-12-6.4 on 61%fg for the second year in a row that no one ever did once. While being back to a total beast on D. Let’s see how they look when they play twice this year.

Giannis has not been a total beast on D

Jokic has been much better and the data supports it

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

[Jaqua92]

Guarding Jokic is eerily similar to Lebron. Clog the lanes, have 1 front and up to two blockers, make them hit tough midrange shots or 3's, flatline the passing creation more.

Jokic can be exposed more on accountability on defence through sheer fast rim running and pnr play... But so is other ATG bigs when brought out there or moving them out of position constantly.

Jokic trumps Bron on pure shooting everywhere, size and passing but basically what I'm saying is Jokic is the best player in the comp and will be for the foreseeable future.

This could be the best offensive season ever. Would it surprise me? Nope.

Problem is Jokic is the most efficient volume scorer in the paint in the history of the NBA and has shot around 50% from mid range for a few seasons, with this one season being an exception. He's also been a better 3 point shooter than LeBron.

[CobraCommander]

Reminded - 20% or so of the NBA season has passed and someone is avg a 30 point triple double while shooting 56-56-83.

The poll should be 100% that’s the MVP but yall out here tripping and hating and lying to yourselves

It’s a season long award is jokic leading maybe but what Giannis is doing is also historic 32-12-6.4 on 61%fg for the second year in a row that no one ever did once. While being back to a total beast on D. Let’s see how they look when they play twice this year.

Giannis is in second IMO

[CobraCommander]

Giannis has not been a total beast on D

Jokic has been much better and the data supports it

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

This isn’t a debate...Tatum is a monster - Giannis is a monster - Jokic is on whole other level

Jokic is shooting 56 56 and 83 with 20% of the year done and it’s a 30 13 11 triple double - This is peak of anyone’s career


This is feeling like peak MJ.....when second was all that’s possible

[DCasey91]

Guarding Jokic is eerily similar to Lebron. Clog the lanes, have 1 front and up to two blockers, make them hit tough midrange shots or 3's, flatline the passing creation more.

Jokic can be exposed more on accountability on defence through sheer fast rim running and pnr play... But so is other ATG bigs when brought out there or moving them out of position constantly.

Jokic trumps Bron on pure shooting everywhere, size and passing but basically what I'm saying is Jokic is the best player in the comp and will be for the foreseeable future.

This could be the best offensive season ever. Would it surprise me? Nope.

Problem is Jokic is the most efficient volume scorer in the paint in the history of the NBA and has shot around 50% from mid range for a few seasons, with this one season being an exception. He's also been a better 3 point shooter than LeBron.

That's why to me he's quite legimately so difficult to guard effectively over the course. It's death by a thousand cuts

That's why I said he's a better pure shooter but you still need to drop their creation levels and clog clanes and build a structural blueprint on defence

Like I can point to weaknesses with the best offensive players of all time but I can't with Jokic because there really isn't one.

Basically he has to have poor shooting from outside, poor finishing , a bad passing game all at the same time while covering all the defensive exposure points and combat his rebounding prowess that doesn't sound reasonable lol

[Packbuckman]

Giannis has not been a total beast on D

Jokic has been much better and the data supports it

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

I know you like going by stats but I go by eye test and what I like is the player that’s the most unguardedly dominant. But players like Giannis Wilt Shaq had one thing that brought their ts% down a bit is free throw shooting even LeBron too i am still taking that player over Jokic my preference. Giannis would lead the league in scoring every year if his free throw % was in the 80’s it is frustrating to me because he use to be in the high 70’s. I still don’t think we have seen the best version of Giannis his mid range is legit good this year.

[Wolfgang630]

Thank god Embiid is not in the running. This topic was horrible just horrible to read through with these 3 fanbases together

[AleksandarN]

Anything to diminish Jokic for some folks by bringing up how great centers were of the past. Jahlil Okafor was that and he’s not in the NBA. Many of those old centers can’t play today. Those handful great centers can play in any era, but that’s a different conversation

Val and Steve Adams is just as strong as Jokic and jokic beat them regularly

[ITYSL]

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

I know you like going by stats but I go by eye test and what I like is the player that’s the most unguardedly dominant. But players like Giannis Wilt Shaq had one thing that brought their ts% down a bit is free throw shooting even LeBron too i am still taking that player over Jokic my preference. Giannis would lead the league in scoring every year if his free throw % was in the 80’s it is frustrating to me because he use to be in the high 70’s. I still don’t think we have seen the best version of Giannis his mid range is legit good this year.

You just listed Giannis' RPA and FG% as arguments in support of him. When someone replied with the many more stats in favor of Jokic, then what matters is eyetest from you, a Bucks fan? K.