2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread

[Wolfgang630]

[tweet][/tweet]

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

I know you like going by stats but I go by eye test and what I like is the player that’s the most unguardedly dominant. But players like Giannis Wilt Shaq had one thing that brought their ts% down a bit is free throw shooting even LeBron too i am still taking that player over Jokic my preference. Giannis would lead the league in scoring every year if his free throw % was in the 80’s it is frustrating to me because he use to be in the high 70’s. I still don’t think we have seen the best version of Giannis his mid range is legit good this year.

You just listed Giannis' RPA and FG% as arguments in support of him. When someone replied with the many more stats in favor of Jokic, then what matters is eyetest from you, a Bucks fan? K.

Next thing I might hear is Joker can’t win it again because he can’t jump over a phone book or something.

[AleksandarN]

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

I know you like going by stats but I go by eye test and what I like is the player that’s the most unguardedly dominant. But players like Giannis Wilt Shaq had one thing that brought their ts% down a bit is free throw shooting even LeBron too i am still taking that player over Jokic my preference. Giannis would lead the league in scoring every year if his free throw % was in the 80’s it is frustrating to me because he use to be in the high 70’s. I still don’t think we have seen the best version of Giannis his mid range is legit good this year.

And if Jokic got the whistle that Giannis gets he would lead the league in scoring

[Packbuckman]

Giannis has a ts% of 62%, that's the same as Jayson Tatum.

He's averaging a whooping 2 points more than Jokic 5% worse effeciency. Giannis isn't defending like he did from 2019-2021.

Jokic leads him in PER, ws/48, , VORP, BPM, CraftedPM, Darko, DRIP, LEBRON, and EPM.

You can laugh but there's no legitimate argument against there being a comfortable gap here, nevermind being on par.

The data tells us not only that there is a gap, but that it isn't close.

But hey, I get it. Your 2x mvp, FMVP, and DPOY somehow *ONLY* being second best in the world isnt acceptable.

I know you like going by stats but I go by eye test and what I like is the player that’s the most unguardedly dominant. But players like Giannis Wilt Shaq had one thing that brought their ts% down a bit is free throw shooting even LeBron too i am still taking that player over Jokic my preference. Giannis would lead the league in scoring every year if his free throw % was in the 80’s it is frustrating to me because he use to be in the high 70’s. I still don’t think we have seen the best version of Giannis his mid range is legit good this year.

And if Jokic got the whistle that Giannis gets he would lead the league in scoring

Jokic and Giannis games are totally different Giannis is attacking constantly he don’t get no quick whistle like an Embiid just the opposite but jokic should get more too. I am done with the back and forth you all like your player more I like mine both are great let’s see how their careers go from here. Good luck

[Infinite Llamas]

Jokic has better record and better stats…I have no idea what Bucks fans are on about here.

Yeah he is having an insane season and his name should be in the poll but there is zero argument for him right now. Two extra PPG and more dunks is hardly enough to put him over the top…

[Exp0sed]

I agree with you 100%! The league is small. Im 49 and started watching basketball in the late 80s. The center position nowadays is a joke compared to bigs of the past. Gafford is probably 230 and Lively is no bigger than 220.

thing is, there aren't many 270 lbs. guys who can move around as quickly and as much as needed in the modern NBA. Centers are required to regurlaly step out to the 3 point line and even higher than that, there's alot more space to cover in general and switching creates considerably more movement requirements

so..it is what it is

I agree with everything you said. Just saying that Jokic would havd had to battle bigger guys in the paint in the 90s. He would still be great, but he would have faced better individual competition.

that's obviously very true and indeed Jokic would have faced more guys who could handle him better and contain him better 1 on 1 in previous eras. however, there's the flip side of that. Jokic consistently beats smaller opponents down the court in transition, sometimes even after made baskets. those big Centers of the 90's wouldn't have a prayer in trying to keep up with him, for the most part those guys didn't have the speed or the stamina required for it. Jokic beats the quicker, smaller guys down the court, he beats the Gafford's of the league, the 230 lbs. guys, the 270 guys wouldn't stand a chance

it's kinda like stealing a base in baseball, it's alot about choosing the right moment to do so and Jokic is a master at reading the situation on the court at any given time

while his back to the basket game would def suffer vs. these guys and thus command less double teams etc. - his face-up game would thrive. imagine those guys having to step out to Jokic at the 3 pt. line, he'd just take those guys off the dribble, he's actually got a deceptively quick first step, great handles and an array of fakes and moves. if they decide to hang back he could have just let it fly from the top of the key. he's a good enough shooter (when completely open) from that spot to the point where that wouldn't have been a viable defensive strategy

those guys would do a much a better job when he catches the ball in deep position, no doubt about that but coaches would just scheme to get a smaller guy on him. even a simple screen followed by a simple give and go,try to imagine a guy like Brad daugherty defending Jokic out in the perimeter, with cutters operating behind him...Jokic would have feasted either way

his combo of size, strength,stamina,touch,shot making at all 3 levels and quite possible the GOAT basketball I.Q is just so unique and rare. he would have worked it out in any era, but for sure his game would look different in the 90's

[Ssj16]

thing is, there aren't many 270 lbs. guys who can move around as quickly and as much as needed in the modern NBA. Centers are required to regurlaly step out to the 3 point line and even higher than that, there's alot more space to cover in general and switching creates considerably more movement requirements

so..it is what it is

I agree with everything you said. Just saying that Jokic would havd had to battle bigger guys in the paint in the 90s. He would still be great, but he would have faced better individual competition.

that's obviously very true and indeed Jokic would have faced more guys who could handle him better and contain him better 1 on 1 in previous eras. however, there's the flip side of that. Jokic consistently beats smaller opponents down the court in transition, sometimes even after made baskets. those big Centers of the 90's wouldn't have a prayer in trying to keep up with him, for the most part those guys didn't have the speed or the stamina required for it. Jokic beats the quicker, smaller guys down the court, he beats the Gafford's of the league, the 230 lbs. guys, the 270 guys wouldn't stand a chance

it's kinda like stealing a base in baseball, it's alot about choosing the right moment to do so and Jokic is a master at reading the situation on the court at any given time

while his back to the basket would def suffer vs. these guys and thus command less double teams etc. - his face-up game would thrive. imagine those guys having to step out to Jokic at the 3 pt. line, he'd just take those guys off the dribble, he's actually got a deceptively quick first step, great handles and an array of fakes and moves. if they decide to hang up he could have just let it fly from the top of the key. he's a good enough shooter (when completely open) from that spot to the point where that wouldn't have been a viable defensive strategy

those guys would do a much a better job when he catches the ball in deep position, no doubt about that but coaches would just scheme to get a smaller guy on him. even a simple screen followed by a simple give and go,try to imagine a guy like Brad daugherty defending Jokic out in the perimeter, with cutters operating behind him...Jokic would have feasted either way

his combo of size, strength,stamina,touch,shot making at all 3 levels and quite possible the GOAT basketball I.Q is just so unique and rare. he would have worked it out in any era, but for sure his game would look different in the 90's

Well said. It's sad that people are bringing in the eras argument to discredit Jokic but that's how you know he's reached top 20 player of all time status.

Players like Jokic and Lebron, etc are so good that they transcend eras.

[Sgt Major]

Read on Twitter

[bisme37]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

[Packbuckman]

Jokic has better record and better stats…I have no idea what Bucks fans are on about here.

Yeah he is having an insane season and his name should be in the poll but there is zero argument for him right now. Two extra PPG and more dunks is hardly enough to put him over the top…

If the season ended in November or if he keeps this up for the whole year have no problem at all giving Jokic 4th MVP he has been great. Giannis just gets no respect at all like other players do people always saying **** about him. So as a bucks fan I stick up for him he’s the 2nd best buck I have ever seen. And I think he’s still getting better which is the opposite of these people that think he’s going to fall off a cliff when he ages.

[Special_Puppy]

[tweet][/tweet]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

Where’s Embiid? The disrespect is UNREAL

[Special_Puppy]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

Would do the top 9 in Betting Markets

Jokic
SGA
Tatum
Giannis
AD
Ant
Luka
Spida
Curry

[bisme37]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

Would do the top 9 in Betting Markets

Jokic
SGA
Tatum
Giannis
AD
Ant
Luka
Spida
Curry

Thanks for an actual answer! I hadn't looked at the odds but that's the exact list I'm leaning toward. Gonna eat many donuts, see if I get more responses, and post it a little later.

[Infinite Llamas]

Jokic has better record and better stats…I have no idea what Bucks fans are on about here.

Yeah he is having an insane season and his name should be in the poll but there is zero argument for him right now. Two extra PPG and more dunks is hardly enough to put him over the top…

If the season ended in November or if he keeps this up for the whole year have no problem at all giving Jokic 4th MVP he has been great. Giannis just gets no respect at all like other players do people always saying **** about him. So as a bucks fan I stick up for him he’s the 2nd best buck I have ever seen. And I think he’s still getting better which is the opposite of these people that think he’s going to fall off a cliff when he ages.

There’s no fault in defending your guy. And Giannis gets a lot of respect. I and many others think he is the 2nd best player in the game. I just also happen to believe that Jokic is on a different level from everyone else. Eye test? Stats? Just watching how he reads the game and makes such quick decisions is what puts him over the top for me.

[Wolfgang630]

Tbh I think 4 people have separated themselves from the pack due to themselves and/or team winning.

Jokic
Giannis
SGA
Tatum

[CobraCommander]

[tweet][/tweet]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

Where’s Embiid? The disrespect is UNREAL

Edwards, Ball, Bron, Luka , Kyrie deserve it

But it’s Luka, edwards and I guess bron


But the top 5 should be jokic jokic jokic jokic annnd jokic

[CobraCommander]

So I'm trying to make the new MVP thread/poll and I need to ask the peanut gallery who y'all want in it haha.

I've got 10 options to work with and one of them is "other."

So right now I'm sitting there with...

Nikola Jokic
Jayson Tatum
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Anthony Davis
Donovan Mitchell
Steph Curry
Giannis Antetokounmpo

That's 7 if my fingers are working. So who are the other 2 who get their own option? I'd prefer if you guys didn't hate me after I spend my morning on this.

I feel like Luka should be in there without even thinking about it, but he's been out and Kyrie may be the better Mavs candidate right now?

Ant Edwards felt like a lock a month ago but is he a top 9 MVP candidate?

Wemby? Is Durant still in the mix? Maybe Franz Wagner? Maybe a Knick but I don't know if it's Brunson or KAT. Lamelo Ball?? Sabonis? Harden? A Rocket? Bron? Some other guy you can't believe I haven't mentioned?

The thing is at this moment in time it looks one way, but then in a month things are different and the poll sucks. I really don't want to redo this thing every few weeks so I want a poll that will last a while.

Thx good pals.

Would do the top 9 in Betting Markets

Jokic
SGA
Tatum
Giannis
AD
Ant
Luka
Spida
Curry

I read ant spider curry and got sick - that’s a disgusting dish

[bisme37]

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