Grayson Allen for a Center (ORL, DET, POR)

[OutsidetheNBA]

Suns Rationale: Any version of a deep PHX playoff run involves (1) Jones/Morris splitting the PG minutes and (2) Beal/Booker/KD/ONeal playing almost all the minutes at the 2-4. I think Dunn and Okogie can mop up any remaining wing minutes if necessary.

That leaves C as the Suns weakest position. As a Blazer fan, I have a soft spot for Nurk, but even before his injuries he wasn't good after about 25mpg. And I don't think Plumlee should play playoff minutes. I think it's better that the Suns add a center rather than trading Nurk + Pick(s). Grayson Allen is the obvious candidate because he has value on a good mid-size contract.

I'm not sure exactly how to value Allen. These are some ideas -- how off are they in value and are there other good options?

Detroit

Potential 1:

Suns Out: Grayson Allen
Det Out: Isaiah Stewart

Pistons are committed to Duren so they trade their young back-up C for a long-term movement shooter who can contribute for the next half-decade as Ivey and Cade grow. THJ and Beasley are not long term options. Do the Suns owe more here? A protected '30 swap?

Potential 2:

Suns Out: Grayson Allen ||| Suns In: RWIII, '25 DET 2nd
Det Out: THJ, Sasser, '25 TOR 2nd, '25 DET 2nd ||| DET In: G. Allen, J. Walker
POR Out: RWIII, J. Walker ||| POR In: THJ, Sasser, '25 TOR 2nd

Portland gets an expiring and a couple of decent assets for RW III. Detroit upgrades to Allen without giving up Stewart.

Orlando

Potential 1:

Suns Out: G. Allen, Top 8 Protected '30 Swap (or 2 2nds)
Orl Out: WCJ

The worst 3 point shooting team in the league finally gets a knock-down spacer. Bud gets a Center who can stretch the floor and play solid D.

Potential 2:

Suns Out: G. Allen
Orl Out: Goga B., Extinguish '26 Swap

[Myth]

Pass on the Blazers one for me. For one, I value RWIII more than an expiring plus a 2nd. Second, Blazers take on $4M this season, which I believe would give them slightly less wiggle room in a trade before the trade deadline to unload one of Grant/Simons/Ayton.

Edit: I didn't account for all the contracts. I'll need to review further. But I still don't like the return on the surface.

Edit 2: It is worse than I thought. The contracts I didn't account for were Walker and Sasser, and Sasser costs more. We also may want to keep Walker to be our bench hustle big if we are sending out RWill.

Edit 3: The trade isn't even legal because Portland takes on too much money (If ESPN Trade Machine is accurate). This puts Portland over the tax and this is definitely not a trade that is worth going into the tax for.

[OutsidetheNBA]

Pass on the Blazers one for me. For one, I value RWIII more than an expiring plus a 2nd. Second, Blazers take on $4M this season, which I believe would give them slightly less wiggle room in a trade before the trade deadline to unload one of Grant/Simons/Ayton.

Edit: I didn't account for all the contracts. I'll need to review further. But I still don't like the return on the surface.

Fair. I value Sasser as a long-term back-up point guard. And it's the Raptors '25 2nd, which is the 33rd pick right now and not likely to get a whole lot worse.

[Myth]

Pass on the Blazers one for me. For one, I value RWIII more than an expiring plus a 2nd. Second, Blazers take on $4M this season, which I believe would give them slightly less wiggle room in a trade before the trade deadline to unload one of Grant/Simons/Ayton.

Edit: I didn't account for all the contracts. I'll need to review further. But I still don't like the return on the surface.

Fair. I value Sasser as a long-term back-up point guard. And it's the Raptors '25 2nd, which is the 33rd pick right now and not likely to get a whole lot worse.

I just threw another edit on my previous post. The trade is seemingly too much money coming into Portland to be legal.

[oldncreaky]

I think the analysis from the Suns' perspective is very good.

Both possibilities for DET are a miss. In the first potential trade, while Beef Stew is only a backup C, he is a good one, and more valuable to DET than Allen. Beef Stew is still one of DET's best 3 or 4 players by any metric, and also fits with the age of the core, while Grayson Allen doesn't. In the second trade, giving up draft compensation for Allen doesn't make sense, particularly since I'm not even sure I value him over Sasser/THJ. More importantly, from a direction perspective, we need opportunities to find another core piece with star potential, not a minor upgrade on our veteran bench pieces.

[OutsidetheNBA]

Pass on the Blazers one for me. For one, I value RWIII more than an expiring plus a 2nd. Second, Blazers take on $4M this season, which I believe would give them slightly less wiggle room in a trade before the trade deadline to unload one of Grant/Simons/Ayton.

Edit: I didn't account for all the contracts. I'll need to review further. But I still don't like the return on the surface.

Fair. I value Sasser as a long-term back-up point guard. And it's the Raptors '25 2nd, which is the 33rd pick right now and not likely to get a whole lot worse.

I just threw another edit on my previous post. The trade is seemingly too much money coming into Portland to be legal.

Huh. It works on the FanSpo trade machine and keeps the Blazers under the tax.

As to your other point above, if you value Walker, substitute Banton. (Contrary to most Blazer fans on this board, I don't see either Walker or Banton as potential rotation players for a decent team).

EDIT: I figured it out. FanSpo automatically slid Sasser into the Brogdon Trade Exception. So the Blazers would also be "giving up" this trade exception in the above version of the trade. Or the Blazers could send out both Banton and Walker (again, I value neither) and keep the TPE.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Orlando

Potential 1:

Suns Out: G. Allen, Top 8 Protected '30 Swap (or 2 2nds)
Orl Out: WCJ

The worst 3 point shooting team in the league finally gets a knock-down spacer. Bud gets a Center who can stretch the floor and play solid D.

Potential 2:

Suns Out: G. Allen
Orl Out: Goga B., Extinguish '26 Swap

Potential 1 isn’t possible until the offseason due to Carters extension.

Potential 2 isn’t probable due to Carters uncertainty. Orlando needs Goga more than Allens skill set at this current moment. I would even go as far and say that Goga is one of the most untouchable players on Orlando’s roster.

[Myth]

Fair. I value Sasser as a long-term back-up point guard. And it's the Raptors '25 2nd, which is the 33rd pick right now and not likely to get a whole lot worse.

I just threw another edit on my previous post. The trade is seemingly too much money coming into Portland to be legal.

Huh. It works on the FanSpo trade machine and keeps the Blazers under the tax.

As to your other point above, if you value Walker, substitute Banton. (Contrary to most Blazer fans on this board, I don't see either Walker or Banton as potential rotation players for a decent team).

EDIT: I figured it out. FanSpo automatically slid Sasser into the Brogdon Trade Exception. So the Blazers would also be "giving up" this trade exception in the above version of the trade. Or the Blazers could send out both Banton and Walker (again, I value neither) and keep the TPE.

I don't see Sasser as any more promising than them. He's already 24, shooting poorly, very low assists (3 per 36mpg this season). Plus I'm hoping to not get more short guards unless their talent truly justifies it. Even if it is legal, I'd much rather keep RWIII, one of Walker/Banton, and keep a trade exception than have a big minutes guard in THJ, a backup guard I have no interest in, and a decent 2nd rounder.

[eitanr]

I am a huge Allen fan and would love him for Detroit for Beef Stew, but as previous posters noted, they would need a legit backup 5. I would argue that a 5 is easier to acquire at some point, but as of right now the fit wouldn't work. If only the Pistons drafted Clingan at 5...

[Texas Chuck]

I think Allen is infinitely more playable in the playoffs than Morris/Okogie and Dunn is a rookie. Not sure Allen is as extraneous as the OP seems to think. Particularly with Beal and KD not exactly fixtures of health.

Definitely would not trade him for a backup center. If the deal brings them a clear upgrade to Nurkic, then maybe. But at that point just add the pick(s) to Nurkic and keep Allen.

Hate the idea of trading him for Williams to immediately get hurt and now you've tossed him away. And none of the other options feel like upgrades over Nurkic honestly.

[jbk1234]

Orlando

Potential 1:

Suns Out: G. Allen, Top 8 Protected '30 Swap (or 2 2nds)
Orl Out: WCJ

The worst 3 point shooting team in the league finally gets a knock-down spacer. Bud gets a Center who can stretch the floor and play solid D.

Potential 2:

Suns Out: G. Allen
Orl Out: Goga B., Extinguish '26 Swap

Potential 1 isn’t possible until the offseason due to Carters extension.

Potential 2 isn’t probable due to Carters uncertainty. Orlando needs Goga more than Allens skill set at this current moment. I would even go as far and say that Goga is one of the most untouchable players on Orlando’s roster.

Orlando would be very foolish to pass on Allen for either of their backup centers IMO. He has the exact skill set the Magic need in terms of spacing with solid defense and took a discount to stay with Suns.

[NotACat]

Orlando

Potential 1:

Suns Out: G. Allen, Top 8 Protected '30 Swap (or 2 2nds)
Orl Out: WCJ

The worst 3 point shooting team in the league finally gets a knock-down spacer. Bud gets a Center who can stretch the floor and play solid D.

Potential 2:

Suns Out: G. Allen
Orl Out: Goga B., Extinguish '26 Swap

Potential 1 isn’t possible until the offseason due to Carters extension.

Potential 2 isn’t probable due to Carters uncertainty. Orlando needs Goga more than Allens skill set at this current moment. I would even go as far and say that Goga is one of the most untouchable players on Orlando’s roster.

Orlando would be very foolish to pass on Allen for either of their backup centers IMO. He has the exact skill set the Magic need in terms of spacing with solid defense and took a discount to stay with Suns.

I completely agree. Goga has been great, but Grayson Allen brings playoff starter level play in a cost-controlled contract.

[OutsidetheNBA]

I think Allen is infinitely more playable in the playoffs than Morris/Okogie and Dunn is a rookie. Not sure Allen is as extraneous as the OP seems to think. Particularly with Beal and KD not exactly fixtures of health.

Definitely would not trade him for a backup center. If the deal brings them a clear upgrade to Nurkic, then maybe. But at that point just add the pick(s) to Nurkic and keep Allen.

Hate the idea of trading him for Williams to immediately get hurt and now you've tossed him away. And none of the other options feel like upgrades over Nurkic honestly.

Fair. But I think the theory of PHX-as-Contender is that KD/Beal string together 4 healthy and high-level rounds. Probably won't happen, but might as well bet on it because you're not going to win any other way.

As for the Center position, if I'm the Suns I just want 48 minutes of competent play. I think Nurk can do it for 24mpg. I don't think Plumlee can do it at all in the playoffs. So what I need is another competent Center who can give me 24mpg. In other words, I agree that none of the other Centers listed above are "clear upgrades" to Nurk, but I do think they would clearly upgrade the overall Center position.

The other option -- Nurk + Pick -- means you need to find a Center who can give you 36mpg+ and then pray that KD/Oneal can hold up for 12 minutes a game at Center. I don't think that works in the West.

[Norm2953]

I am a huge Allen fan and would love him for Detroit for Beef Stew, but as previous posters noted, they would need a legit backup 5. I would argue that a 5 is easier to acquire at some point, but as of right now the fit wouldn't work. If only the Pistons drafted Clingan at 5...

Both Charlotte and Detroit fans seem to be regretting not taking Clingan.

Portland likely would have taken Edey at 7 if both Clingan and Salaun had been taken
ahead of them.

[Texas Chuck]

Fair. But I think the theory of PHX-as-Contender is that KD/Beal string together 4 healthy and high-level rounds. Probably won't happen, but might as well bet on it because you're not going to win any other way.

As for the Center position, if I'm the Suns I just want 48 minutes of competent play. I think Nurk can do it for 24mpg. I don't think Plumlee can do it at all in the playoffs. So what I need is another competent Center who can give me 24mpg. In other words, I agree that none of the other Centers listed above are "clear upgrades" to Nurk, but I do think they would clearly upgrade the overall Center position.

The other option -- Nurk + Pick -- means you need to find a Center who can give you 36mpg+ and then pray that KD/Oneal can hold up for 12 minutes a game at Center. I don't think that works in the West.

I just want to acknowledge these are all good points. I'd still rather try and upgrade Nurk and probably then just play small when my better center sits in the playoffs and keep Allen.

But your concept certainly makes a lot of sense too. Good response.

[eitanr]

I am a huge Allen fan and would love him for Detroit for Beef Stew, but as previous posters noted, they would need a legit backup 5. I would argue that a 5 is easier to acquire at some point, but as of right now the fit wouldn't work. If only the Pistons drafted Clingan at 5...

Both Charlotte and Detroit fans seem to be regretting not taking Clingan.

Portland likely would have taken Edey at 7 if both Clingan and Salaun had been taken
ahead of them.

The irredeemable thing for me is who was the obvious consensus selection for both teams at that slot. This wasn't a hind sight is 20/20 notion...Clingan was rumored to go top 3 and both teams obviously needed help everywhere, but especially on defense. In a crap shoot draft, take the talent especially given your franchises' recent draft histories.

[Kalamazoo317]

I’d rather trade Duren than Beefstew. Not sure it would make sense to trade either for Grayson Allen