2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 2)

[MavsDirk41]

You get that someone's stats can translate to wins, while still translating to FEWER wins that what another player is bringing, right?

Lol what in the world do you have against Jokic? Its Jokic and not even close….

[yannisk]

If things remain as is Jokic should win comfortably again. But I don't think he is going to shoot 56% from 3 for example. So as his stats become closer to the other guys (probably still better) other factors will also come in play, like team record and the infamous "narrative"

[One_and_Done]

You get that someone's stats can translate to wins, while still translating to FEWER wins that what another player is bringing, right?

Lol what in the world do you have against Jokic? Its Jokic and not even close….

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

[QPR]

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but this award has always factored in team success. It would be weird if Jokic was exempt from that. There's a very good chance another player like SGA will have so much more team success that Jokic doesn't get it.

As long as Denver is around 50 wins and in the playoffs, if he continues playing like this he is going to win handily imo

Meh. If the Nuggets win 50 and the Thunder win 65 I could see Shai getting the nod. Honestly, his support cast isn't much better with Chet out, they've been so hurt J.Will is playing the 5. If your stats aren't translating to wins it should be held against you. This will especially be possible if the Thunder blow out the Nuggets on national TV and Shai looks awesome.

OKC has gone 4-3 since Chet went down. That isn't 65-win pace.

[MavsDirk41]

You get that someone's stats can translate to wins, while still translating to FEWER wins that what another player is bringing, right?

Lol what in the world do you have against Jokic? Its Jokic and not even close….

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

Well Luka was probably the best postseason player last season and did he win the mvp? No….

Jordan was probably the best postseason player every time he made the playoffs but did he win 9 mvps?

No….

Mvp is a regular season award. Dirk won mvp in 07 and got bounced in the first round by GS. Playoffs dont matter.

[CobraCommander]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/42512414/nba-early-season-awards-expert-picks-mvp-roy-more-far


“A month into the season, it simply isn't possible to present a rational argument that any other player in the league can claim the award over Jokic. The gap between Joker and the field was illustrated quite well during the Nuggets' road blowout over the Lakers on Sunday night. Jokic had a pretty typical performance by his standards (34 points, 13 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals and a block) while dominating Anthony Davis, the runner-up in this award category”

Damn that’s solid writing from espn

[CobraCommander]

Lol what in the world do you have against Jokic? Its Jokic and not even close….

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

Well Luka was probably the best postseason player last season and did he win the mvp? No….

Jordan was probably the best postseason player every time he made the playoffs but did he win 9 mvps?

No….

Mvp is a regular season award. Dirk won mvp in 07 and got bounced in the first round by GS. Playoffs dont matter.

It’s a regular season award. Jokic had the best playoffs in resent memory the year Embiid won the MVP. This year - jokic is even better- We should start talking about who is the runner up -

Now There is a debate - I think it’s Giannis but the experts say AD

1. Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets: 50 points (67% of first-place votes)

2. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers: 22 points (25% of first place votes)

3. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics: 12 points

4. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Oklahoma City Thunder: 11 points (8% of first-place votes)

T5. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks: 6 points

T5. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors: 6 points

[CobraCommander]

If things remain as is Jokic should win comfortably again. But I don't think he is going to shoot 56% from 3 for example. So as his stats become closer to the other guys (probably still better) other factors will also come in play, like team record and the infamous "narrative"

The other guys need to play significantly better and he has to play significantly worse for it to be close-

Giannis the only one within reason stat wise and the gap is huge lol

Giannis is 32, 12 and 6 with 1 steal and 1.5 blocks - but jokic avg a 30 point triple double with those shooting splits- any other year Giannis winning - but naw

[famicommander]

If things remain as is Jokic should win comfortably again. But I don't think he is going to shoot 56% from 3 for example. So as his stats become closer to the other guys (probably still better) other factors will also come in play, like team record and the infamous "narrative"

His 3 point shooting is probably not sustainable, that's true, but it's also true that his 2 point shooting is at its lowest mark since 2018-2019. He's missing way more shots in the lane than he normally does. So it's reasonable to assume that his 2 point shooting will recover as his 3 point shooting levels off.

His true shooting percentage this year is inside its normal range since his 1st MVP season
2021: .647
2022: .661
2023: .701
2024: .650
2025: .671

[MavsDirk41]

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

Well Luka was probably the best postseason player last season and did he win the mvp? No….

Jordan was probably the best postseason player every time he made the playoffs but did he win 9 mvps?

No….

Mvp is a regular season award. Dirk won mvp in 07 and got bounced in the first round by GS. Playoffs dont matter.

It’s a regular season award. Jokic had the best playoffs in resent memory the year Embiid won the MVP. This year - jokic is even better- We should start talking about who is the runner up -

Now There is a debate - I think it’s Giannis but the experts say AD

1. Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets: 50 points (67% of first-place votes)

2. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers: 22 points (25% of first place votes)

3. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics: 12 points

4. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Oklahoma City Thunder: 11 points (8% of first-place votes)

T5. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks: 6 points

T5. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors: 6 points

I agree its Jokic clear cut without a doubt. As far as runner up, i would say SGA, Giannis, and then Anthony Davis. I think a sleeper pick would be Wagner with the Magic.

[jokeboy86]

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but this award has always factored in team success. It would be weird if Jokic was exempt from that. There's a very good chance another player like SGA will have so much more team success that Jokic doesn't get it.

As long as Denver is around 50 wins and in the playoffs, if he continues playing like this he is going to win handily imo

Eh you would think but I still say the media is looking for a reason to give it to someone else. Not to mention if Jokic is still leading in the polls but Denver isn't a top 3 seed the loud national talking heads are going to come out in a frenzy and say some other player on a top team with a better record should win. That being said the only other players they could possibly come up with are SGA, Tatum, Steph and possibly Mitchell. But with all of them there are things where Jokic could still edge them out:

-With Holmgren being out and teams no longer sleeping on OKC it may be hard for SGA's team to separate themselves in the win column from other teams and get the top seed again.

-Voters are going to hold it against Tatum cause of how deep the Celtics roster is and also because he plays with Brown and even still there's still some discussion amongst a few about who's better

-Mitchell is a small shooting guard not in a big market and he's had better seasons in Utah(including one where the Jazz were #1 in the West)and he didn't get any MVP votes then so I can't see him getting any in CLE unless they get the #1 East seed by a large margin.

Steph has set the bar so high for himself that even if GS has a top 2 record they may not give it to him because they've seen what he looks like when he's really having a great individual season.

Other players like AD, KD, Lebron, Ant, Brunson, Ja either won't have the team success to pass the guys above or there'll be some random injury and they'll miss some significant amount.

But even after saying all this I still think as great as a season as Jokic could possibly have they still may not give it to him because of the historical ramifications. That would be 4 in 5 years, more than Magic, Bird and only 3 other players would have more. A lot of media/ex-players already don't want to put Jokic as a top 10-15 player of all time but winning a 4th MVP would basically end the discussion permanently.

[BigGargamel]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/42512414/nba-early-season-awards-expert-picks-mvp-roy-more-far


“A month into the season, it simply isn't possible to present a rational argument that any other player in the league can claim the award over Jokic. The gap between Joker and the field was illustrated quite well during the Nuggets' road blowout over the Lakers on Sunday night. Jokic had a pretty typical performance by his standards (34 points, 13 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals and a block) while dominating Anthony Davis, the runner-up in this award category”

Damn that’s solid writing from espn

It's hilarious how long it took ESPN to catch on to Jokic's domination, but better late than never I suppose.

[BigGargamel]

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but this award has always factored in team success. It would be weird if Jokic was exempt from that. There's a very good chance another player like SGA will have so much more team success that Jokic doesn't get it.

As long as Denver is around 50 wins and in the playoffs, if he continues playing like this he is going to win handily imo

Eh you would think but I still say the media is looking for a reason to give it to someone else. Not to mention if Jokic is still leading in the polls but Denver isn't a top 3 seed the loud national talking heads are going to come out in a frenzy and say some other player on a top team with a better record should win. That being said the only other players they could possibly come up with are SGA, Tatum, Steph and possibly Mitchell. But with all of them there are things where Jokic could still edge them out:

-With Holmgren being out and teams no longer sleeping on OKC it may be hard for SGA's team to separate themselves in the win column from other teams and get the top seed again.

-Voters are going to hold it against Tatum cause of how deep the Celtics roster is and also because he plays with Brown and even still there's still some discussion amongst a few about who's better

-Mitchell is a small shooting guard not in a big market and he's had better seasons in Utah(including one where the Jazz were #1 in the West)and he didn't get any MVP votes then so I can't see him getting any in CLE unless they get the #1 East seed by a large margin.

Steph has set the bar so high for himself that even if GS has a top 2 record they may not give it to him because they've seen what he looks like when he's really having a great individual season.

Other players like AD, KD, Lebron, Ant, Brunson, Ja either won't have the team success to pass the guys above or there'll be some random injury and they'll miss some significant amount.

But even after saying all this I still think as great as a season as Jokic could possibly have they still may not give it to him because of the historical ramifications. That would be 4 in 5 years, more than Magic, Bird and only 3 other players would have more. A lot of media/ex-players already don't want to put Jokic as a top 10-15 player of all time but winning a 4th MVP would basically end the discussion permanently.

The gap between Jokic and the rest of these guys mostly makes this a moot point. With the kind of season Jokic is having compared to the field, giving it to anyone else would just be a mistreatment of your voting privilege. Voters are absolutely looking for any reason to give it to someone else, but even they know they can't possibly do that at this point in time. It has to be Jokic and they know it.

The season is still early, but his run is "voter fatigue" proof. Someone is going to really have to step up and make this a real race, because we are running out of valid reasons for anyone else other than Jokic. The voter fatigue angle is flimsy when he's this dominant.

[One_and_Done]

As long as Denver is around 50 wins and in the playoffs, if he continues playing like this he is going to win handily imo

Eh you would think but I still say the media is looking for a reason to give it to someone else. Not to mention if Jokic is still leading in the polls but Denver isn't a top 3 seed the loud national talking heads are going to come out in a frenzy and say some other player on a top team with a better record should win. That being said the only other players they could possibly come up with are SGA, Tatum, Steph and possibly Mitchell. But with all of them there are things where Jokic could still edge them out:

-With Holmgren being out and teams no longer sleeping on OKC it may be hard for SGA's team to separate themselves in the win column from other teams and get the top seed again.

-Voters are going to hold it against Tatum cause of how deep the Celtics roster is and also because he plays with Brown and even still there's still some discussion amongst a few about who's better

-Mitchell is a small shooting guard not in a big market and he's had better seasons in Utah(including one where the Jazz were #1 in the West)and he didn't get any MVP votes then so I can't see him getting any in CLE unless they get the #1 East seed by a large margin.

Steph has set the bar so high for himself that even if GS has a top 2 record they may not give it to him because they've seen what he looks like when he's really having a great individual season.

Other players like AD, KD, Lebron, Ant, Brunson, Ja either won't have the team success to pass the guys above or there'll be some random injury and they'll miss some significant amount.

But even after saying all this I still think as great as a season as Jokic could possibly have they still may not give it to him because of the historical ramifications. That would be 4 in 5 years, more than Magic, Bird and only 3 other players would have more. A lot of media/ex-players already don't want to put Jokic as a top 10-15 player of all time but winning a 4th MVP would basically end the discussion permanently.

The gap between Jokic and the rest of these guys mostly makes this a moot point. With the kind of season Jokic is having compared to the field, giving it to anyone else would just be a mistreatment of your voting privilege. Voters are absolutely looking for any reason to give it to someone else, but even they know they can't possibly do that at this point in time. It has to be Jokic and they know it.

The season is still early, but his run is "voter fatigue" proof. Someone is going to really have to step up and make this a real race, because we are running out of valid reasons for anyone else other than Jokic. The voter fatigue angle is flimsy when he's this dominant.

There were talking heads who picked Jokic last year, and that was before he fumbled to the Wolves. They have more ammo this year.

[One_and_Done]

Lol what in the world do you have against Jokic? Its Jokic and not even close….

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

LeBron was probably the best RS player for like 5 seasons? Maybe 6 if you count 2007. He won in 4 out of the 6 years where he was probably most deserving candidate which is pretty normal

Lebron was indisputably the best player from 09 to 16. He has a strong case in 07, 08, 17 & 18 as well. That's 8-12 years. I don't think I'd have picked him in 07 or 08, that would go to Duncan/Nash/Dirk and KG/CP3 respectively, but he had a case.

[scrabbarista]

Jokic is the best RS player right now, but that's not how MVP works. If it was, Lebron would have 8-10 MVPs.

LeBron was probably the best RS player for like 5 seasons? Maybe 6 if you count 2007. He won in 4 out of the 6 years where he was probably most deserving candidate which is pretty normal

Lebron was indisputably the best player from 09 to 16. He has a strong case in 07, 08, 17 & 18 as well. That's 8-12 years. I don't think I'd have picked him in 07 or 08, that would go to Duncan/Nash/Dirk and KG/CP3 respectively, but he had a case.

Nah, he said regular season player.

It was obviously KD in 2014 and Curry in 2016. That's just off the top of my head with some obvious ones. Curry was unanimous. LBJ didn't get a single first place vote.

[One_and_Done]

LeBron was probably the best RS player for like 5 seasons? Maybe 6 if you count 2007. He won in 4 out of the 6 years where he was probably most deserving candidate which is pretty normal

Lebron was indisputably the best player from 09 to 16. He has a strong case in 07, 08, 17 & 18 as well. That's 8-12 years. I don't think I'd have picked him in 07 or 08, that would go to Duncan/Nash/Dirk and KG/CP3 respectively, but he had a case.

Nah, he said regular season player.

It was obviously KD in 2014 and Curry in 2016. That's just off the top of my head with some obvious ones. Curry was unanimous. LBJ didn't get a single first place vote.

And Embiid beat Jokic for MVP. Are we talking about who the best player was, or who won MVP?

[scrabbarista]

Lebron was indisputably the best player from 09 to 16. He has a strong case in 07, 08, 17 & 18 as well. That's 8-12 years. I don't think I'd have picked him in 07 or 08, that would go to Duncan/Nash/Dirk and KG/CP3 respectively, but he had a case.

Nah, he said regular season player.

It was obviously KD in 2014 and Curry in 2016. That's just off the top of my head with some obvious ones. Curry was unanimous. LBJ didn't get a single first place vote.

And Embiid beat Jokic for MVP. Are we talking about who the best player was, or who won MVP?

He said "best RS player."

I said "best regular season player."

Hope that helps.

[Exp0sed]

Elfrid Payton is back in the league apparently and he's got 10 pts, 7 rebs and 17 (!) assists in 26 mins, that's wild

[One_and_Done]

Nah, he said regular season player.

It was obviously KD in 2014 and Curry in 2016. That's just off the top of my head with some obvious ones. Curry was unanimous. LBJ didn't get a single first place vote.

And Embiid beat Jokic for MVP. Are we talking about who the best player was, or who won MVP?

He said "best RS player."

I said "best regular season player."

Hope that helps.

It doesn't, because Jokic supporters are blurring the distinction between best player and most deserving. You are doing it too.

MVP has historically had a bunch of criteria attached to it, some good and some less good, but the idea Jokic 'must be #1' because he's been the best player is not a sound argument. If that was the only criteria Lebron would have alot more MVPs.